From 5,000 Rejections to the Grand Ole Opry: Doug Berry's "Think Huge" Story

Think Huge And Kickoff

SPEAKER_00 0:00

He's like, everybody tells you to think big. And he's like, you're wasting your time. Don't think big. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, think huge. He's like, think like worldwide huge. He's like, you're gonna spend time thinking about it anyway. Why limit yourself?

SPEAKER_01 0:16

What is going on, LM family? Got another super awesome guest for us today that of course I met on the LinkedIn through the no BS Tribe. He is an author of children's books, retired Air Force, and an accomplished songwriter. And you'll get to see, just like I've seen glimpses of very humble, very approachable, and because of that, is super inspiring. His name is Mr. Douglas Berry, and we're gonna get to know a little bit about his path. We wanna we want the formula for how he started writing books and writing songs and all the things that he's accomplished in his life. Now, if this is your first time here, you're listening to the Learnins and Missteps podcast, where you get like a behind the scenes view of amazing human beings just like you who are sharing their gifts and talents to leave the world better than they found it. I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we're about to get to know Mr. Douglas Barry. How are you doing, Mr. Doug? Doing great. Thanks for having me on today. Oh man, I'm I'm excited that we were able to make it happen. What maybe I don't remember what part of the country are you at? South Carolina. South Carolina. Okay, okay, very cool. You know, I don't know what it is, but I seem I have a lot of connections, super awesome people in the South Carolina area. I wonder, is it required if you're in South Carolina to be active on LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

I don't know, man. Maybe it's just a lot of retired people here like me. You know, we got nothing to do.

Retirement Advice That Actually Works

SPEAKER_01 2:00

So reti, how long have you been retired? Because you seem to be thriving in retirement.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Oh yeah. I was just thinking about it uh last night with the wife. It'll be in about three and a half months, it'll be a year.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Oh, so it's pretty fresh.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Okay. Now I know a bunch of the LM family members out there, their the retirement is on the horizon, or they have family members in retirement. You got any advice for people that are in it or on the verge of it to what to be ready for, how to best handle the transition?

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Uh keep busy and enjoy it. I feel like uh got a little bit kind of I hate to say one up, but I mean I've got my military retirement and social security, so I mean I'm I'm sitting pretty good. Uh I wasn't a very smart 20-year-old, but I did decide when I joined the Air Force I was going to do 20 years so I can get to retirement.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

So financially, you're you got some stability there, but it's the keep busy part that's the different shit.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Definitely keep busy for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Good. I need to talk to my dad. My dad's busy, but uh you know, he gets restless and and honre. I'm like, dude, like I don't I don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Um so far this year I've done pretty well.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, yeah. And I think we're gonna we're definitely gonna cover some of that stuff. Um well here's I'm gonna start with an easy question, and here it is.

Creating Without Credentials

SPEAKER_01 3:26

So like I know writing books is a lot of people have a dream or a vision of writing a book someday. Writing a award-winning song is also something people aspire to. And so for the LM family member out there, like what curriculum certification studies did you do that equipped you to do that? To be a children's book author and write song songs, nothing big zero. Oh, I love that so much. You can tell I'm being sarcastic, right? I think.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Um I think I carried a C in English when I was in school, so that's what I always tell everybody. It's like I love my editors.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Ah, okay. So let's dive into that, right? You just said you're seeing English in school, but you've published multiple books now, and you've got more books on the horizon, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

I do. I've actually I just finished up, uh it's taking me three years because I knew I'd had to get it just right. My uh Jasper and friends, uh Jasper's Christmas story. I just got that finished writing that the other day, and uh not quite sure how we're gonna get it published yet, but uh yeah, that's uh that's written, and I've got two other stories about 75% written for Jasper as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Nice, nice. Okay. So no certifications, no credentials, but you still managed now, you're a published author. I know it's possible, you know it's possible, but were there any like hangups in your head that you thought you needed to have any whatever trainings or whatever or disqualifiers from actually being an author, or was it just a natural thing that happened?

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yeah, it just kind of happened. Uh my whole life, uh, I tried to not get too hung up on school. Uh, and that's gonna maybe come across kind of bad, but I mean, if you've got the drive and you've got the determination, just go for it. If you want to write a book, just start putting the stuff down. You're not gonna get it right the first time. I think I edit books probably for a year before I'm finally done with them.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

So it's like you just get your your what's in your head down on paper and uh get it all out there, and then you go back over 32,000 times and oh yeah, the 32,000 times that that's being uh conservative. Good. So, folks, if y'all didn't catch that, the book police are not gonna come get you if you start writing a book because you're not a certified book writer. Right? I mean, I think what I what I picked up on on the conversations that we had in the no BS after parties, Doug, is you're like you have a thing that you're gonna work on and you do it and it turns into something. Like there is you don't have that barrier that a lot of us put in our way around exploring and trying a new thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Yeah, no, I kind of grew up behind that barrier. I had a lot of people always telling me, it's like, well, you can't do that, don't waste your time with that, and that sort of thing. And uh as I got into the Air Force, uh, they kind of beat that out of you a little bit because you just have to get stuff done, right? So uh that's the mindset I end up getting once I retired. And it's like, you know, all these things that come into my head. I feel like the good Lord put me on this creative path. And and so I just you know knuckle down and and just uh push forward, and you're gonna fail. So don't let that bother you. Just learn from it and keep digging.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Oh my god. Okay, so there's two big chunks there. One, you said you at least 20 years in the Air Force, uh, regimented, rigid, clear expectations, clear pathway. There's not a lot of room for creativity and deviation. And so, and previous to that, it sounds like you there were some conditions signaling to you like, no, no, no, don't don't play with that, focus on this. That time, that amount of time in that environment can like suffocate it out of a person. How did you keep it alive?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I don't know. Um, through through my life, and and while I did time in the Air Force, and while I was still in the Air Force, I had a job where one of my best friends was sitting next to me, and he always wanted to be a pilot. So I'm sitting there doing nothing, uh just Air Force stuff, and he's over there studying to be a pilot. And I'm looking over at him and I'm thinking it's like, well, he's building towards his dream. That's what he wants to do. And what am I doing to build towards my dream? Nothing, not a thing. And so I got thinking

Chasing NASCAR Through Rejection

SPEAKER_00 7:58

about it. It's like, well, what have I always wanted to do? I mean, I always thought it'd be cool to fly as well, but I didn't think I wanted to get my private pilot license. I always wanted to get involved in NASCAR, uh, auto racing, because that's kind of my background, a little bit mechanical. And so I started putting out information and sending because this is back, I think email was just coming around. So I just sent out emails and sometimes hard letters, snail mail kind of thing, trying to find a team that would have me. And after about 5,000 emails and letters, I finally found a guy in uh North Carolina who said, Yeah, come on up, but we can always use a hand. And so I got hooked up with the Rich Woodland race team and uh started doing some uh mechanic work for them. Uh and that was the coolest thing I've ever done. Oh, and that okay, and from there it just kind of launches you. You know what? It's like once you get that first little wind, or that's actually kind of a good size win. It just keeps pushing you. It's like, well, if I can do that, then why can't I do this? And all those thoughts of you're just wasting your time, don't bother trying to do that, just kind of start dwindling away.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Oh man, all right, um, folks, y'all better suit up because this is straight up real, real, real talk. What I love, Doug, is you were sitting there looking at somebody else working on their dream, and you asked yourself, why am I not working on mine? And I think that's a question, I think it's maybe the most critical question we need to ask ourselves, right? Why am I not working on my dream? Maybe preceding that is like, what is it? Right? Like, what is my? I remember there was a period of my life where it was I was doing the things, but it was not fun. Like, life was not fun, life was miserable, and it's like, what the hell am I doing? Well, well, stuff I don't like. Then it was like, well, what do I want to do? Like, well, I don't know. And so I had to explore that path. But for you, you knew you wanted to be involved with NASCAR. Now, um, right, so you were working in terms of like mechanicking, tinkering around on the cars, not necessarily racing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Right, right. Uh, and it was a part-time team, so that's why they could really kind of get me on there as a part-time mechanic and uh uh learned a lot of cool stuff. Uh yeah, saw a lot of cool things, met a lot of neat people. Uh, it was really a neat experience. And I was hoping when I got out of the Air Force that at that point in time Rich would have uh would have landed some good sponsorship, but uh but that didn't work out. And uh I mean he's he's still involved with it, but I think I did it from like 2000 to 2006, 99 to 2006, maybe even a little bit past then. But it was fun. I mean, like my dad told me when I got the thing, he's like, Well, enjoy it while you got it, because you don't know how long it's gonna last.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

So we just stand full and we're gonna do the LM family member shout-out. This one goes to Mr. Victor Nino. Victor says, Jesse gave a great class and was very interactive with the crowd. It will leave you thinking of better ways to communicate with the people around you. Victor, thank you, my brother, for taking the time to leave that review. And folks, in case you're wondering, he was a victim in one of the most recent trainings I did around communication. Uh, and we had some fun out there, and he left a review. So he gives me a good excuse to shout him out. And the same invitation is open to you. Anytime you leave a review, five stars, share, comment on a post. It one, it makes me feel really good that you're out there listening, and two, it gives me an excuse to shout you out in a future episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, why NASCAR? Did you grow up watching NASCAR? People, you have family into the racing game.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah, when we moved from New Jersey, I was just kind of a geek, and we moved down to Maryland. We moved down to Maryland on a chicken farm, and I started learning about mechanical stuff, and I really got stuck in my head, and I'm like, hey, this is really fun to tinker with. And so I was kind of a gearhead in high school, and uh, and that's really what what matter of fact, when I joined the Air Force, my two PaaS visions that I had was if I join the Air Force, that's a solid job. I know I'm gonna make X amount of dollars and it's gonna be steady work. Or I can go down to North Carolina, just drive the El Camino down to North Carolina and try to land the job at a NASCAR team. But I'm not real sure sleeping in my El Camino is something I want to do right now. So uh I decided to go uh well, we'll do the Air Force thing and see if maybe that doesn't lead into something uh in racing down the road. And and it did. Once I decided to, you know, dig into it.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

I think that's the key, right? Once you decided to get back at it, because it was it was in your heart before you joined the Air Force, and it sounds like there was a period of time where it just kind of got shelved and started collecting dust, yeah, and then you picked it back up and put it into practice. Now, you said you reached out, you were sending emails, and you were writing letters. How what did the rejection feel like?

SPEAKER_00 13:12

You know, it's something I I guess at first it was kind of like what do I got to do to get these people interested in what I can bring to the table? But after you get like 20, 30 rejections or or ghosted, it's like it's uh whatever, you know. I'm just gonna keep digging. Uh and that's kind of the attitude you gotta have. It's like uh this is something I want to do. I'm not, you know, maybe somebody can tell me I'm not gonna be able to do it, but I mean, I'm not gonna tell me I can't do it, I'm just gonna keep digging. Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

We gotta we gotta make a t-shirt of that. I'm not gonna tell me what I can't do. Like, let them say it. I don't have to say it. Oh, that is so good. I know that that is a core element of actualizing our dreams or aspirations. I mean, personally, is like most of the things I do or have done are not practical. They're they're not smart, they're not the wisest inventory, like the most secure uh investment of my time. And there's a lot of people around me saying, bad idea, don't do that. You should do this, you're better at this, you should focus on this, this pays more, la la la. It's like, yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. And I'm gonna do the thing. I'm gonna do this thing. But there was a series of experiences and lessons that helped me do that. Now, the Nescar thing, so you made it happen. You got on the team, you're tinkering, you spent several years there. Um, you still had like I said, you were still thriving at the Air Force, and then did all of a sudden you decide, okay, I'm gonna write books or I'm gonna wait till I retire to write books. What did that pathway look like?

Jasper’s Origin And Publishing Reality

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, that was kind of interesting because while my kids were growing up, uh, and I was reading children's books to them, you know, to put them in your bed and stuff. It's like you in the back, you get another little thing in the back of your head, right? I guess that's where everything starts. It's like, I should be able to write one of these. You know, I'm somewhat creative. I should be able to write a children's book, shouldn't I? You know, and you start questioning it. And it wasn't until uh my son's turning 30. Uh, well, I turned 30 tomorrow. And when he was about nine years old, when he was about nine, he caught a baby rabbit in the backyard and he named it Jasper, and he brought it in the house and it spent the night and we let it go the next day. And I looked over at my wife and I'm like, what a great idea for a kid's book. Up till then I had no idea, no original idea of what I could write about. And uh so when that came, it's like now I looked at her, I'm like, just imagine that rabbit's been in our house all day. He's gonna go back outside and he's gonna have to talk to all of his little woodland friends and convince them, no, I actually spent the night over there in that people house, in that minute house. And that's where that's when it all took off. I just, you know, started thinking this the story actually came to me in about 20 minutes. And uh, of course, then I edited it over years because when you get into the publishing thing, that that's that's the next step, and that's not easy either. Um, it took me years to find a hybrid publisher that would decide to uh to do it with me. And caveat with hybrid publishers are it's money up front, you got to give them and uh then they take care of all the all the tough stuff that I didn't know how to do because I never published a book, right? So it's like I don't know how to get any UPC code or an ISBN number or didn't do anything about that stuff. So it made sense to me. And I've done three books now uh through Fulton books, and it's not for the weak at heart, it's a little pricey, but I felt like it was worth it. And uh it's making kids smile. I'm breaking even life is good, right? So you can't complain.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Oh man, yeah, that that's that's beautiful. I think you know what's coming through now, Doug, and on our previous conversations is like these efforts are come from a place of service, of like adding value or enhancing the quality of life of other people. Um, and like if folks haven't written a book, it's a there's a whole lot more work than you think there is. Like, how long did you hear I'm gonna kind of articulate my experience and tell me if you had the same thing because we published through Amazon, which is fewer moving parts than what you went through. So I want to hear more about that. But like we had to pick fonts and layouts and page numbers and the damn layout of the book cover, and it's like, all right, we're done, we're gonna publish. Oh no, no, no, no. Now we need to look at what do we want on the spine? Like, oh, and now we know what texture paper do we like? And I was just like, can we just print the damn thing? That it was like over another thing and another thing and another thing and another that I had no concept of how many decisions I was gonna have to make after writing the stupid thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Was it said, did you have the same experience? Yeah, uh, I did two books about two sci-fi novels I did through Amazon KDP, so I know exactly what you're talking about there. You take it a lot of the stuff on on yourself, and uh, I was a little the first one I was pretty uh overwhelmed with, the second one went a little bit easier, but I'm not real sure I want to do a third one, but we'll see. But the hybrid thing was kind of cool because uh now you got to sit down, they give you this this whole pamphlet uh of of papers and stuff of information they need for the book, other than just the story. Uh they need characters, they need scene layouts, you know, all that sort of thing. I thought I just had to write a book. Yeah, you know, I was like, I think the illustrator just read the book and decide what the images need to be and all that sort of thing. Yeah, that's not how it is. So, yeah, that's no, that's not how it is at all. So they came back to me and said, Well, we're you gotta give us an idea for the illustrator so they know what to draw. And I'm like, I don't know what draw whatever, man. I'm thinking to myself, it's like, well, I I live in a house. This is the night I've been in the people's house. I live in a house, so I got my camera out and I started from like rabbit hikes taking pictures of my inside of my house. Oh, cool, yeah. I'm sure the neighbors thought I'd lost my mind. And if they saw me out there, why is he taking pictures from around his foot for crying out? So I did that and I sent that off to him, and I'd kind of loosely based where I wanted the characters to go. And uh, yeah, that was the that was the big what am I gonna do moment? Because I didn't even think of that.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah, okay. Now, the this hybrid publishing thing, was it similar that you had to reach out to multiple people before they were? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah, I even went through about 500 publishers before I found one that said they were dope, to be honest with you. Really?

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yeah. Okay, and and was there did they have like a reasoning or criteria behind go, no go?

SPEAKER_00 20:04

I don't really remember them because I don't pay much attention to uh to that stuff anymore. I don't let that stuff hold me up. Um, basically, you know, uh no, we don't do children's books. I'm sure it was probably one of them, uh, probably most of them. Uh I I can't think of any other reason that it would be uh Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

And so you're just like, okay, thank you. Bye. Next up. Hey, I got an idea.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, and like I said, it took me about four or five years because you get two or three rejections, and you're like, Yeah, let me put this on the shelf for a little while and we'll get back to it when the when it feels right.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Yeah, yeah, and you finally and you found the one. Man, okay.

Sci-Fi On Amazon KDP

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Now you mentioned your science fiction books. Did those come before Jasper or after Jasper? After the Jasper stories, and why did you decide to go the to Amazon on KDP with the science fiction books?

SPEAKER_00 20:57

It's virtually free, uh, unless you pay somebody to help you with the formatting of the book, which I did do, but if you can figure it all out by yourself, it's very daunting. There's really no, excuse me, there's really no fee. Yeah, so it's like I want to put this story out. I've never written science fiction, so I don't know if it's any good or not any good, so I don't really want to get a lot of money involved in it. Let's not just throw it out there and see how it lands. It got good reviews. I'm not selling a ton of them, but it got good reviews, and I decided to write a second one. And that just came out, or that was just released about a week ago, so I don't have a lot of feedback on that one yet. Dang, okay. So, would you mind what's the name of the book? The one that just released. It's Guardians of the Unknown Convergence.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Ooh, Guardians of the Unknown Convergence.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah, here it is. I got it here. I got some show and tell here. There's a new one.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Oh, that's an awesome cover. And did you make the cover yourself?

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah, I did it on Canva. Here's the first one. Oh, I'm sorry, this is oh, no, that's not the first. I got two of the same book. Here's the first one.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Oh, okay. Guardians of the unknown. Dude, this is so cool. And those are some hefty books.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Yeah, there's uh they're nice, they're 200 pages. The font's not real slow because it's a good just keep you busy kind of book, kind of thing. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Hey, okay. Man, this is too cool. So, science fiction writing the book. Do you have a process that you followed, or is it does it just kind of come out stream of thought? Do you bullet point it? Like, like, is it different than the Jasper experience?

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah, probably the best way to do it, and it's kind of the same way I do the songs, it's think about what you want to write and make yourself like a little flow chart. I guess is probably the best way to put it what you want each chapter to be about, what you want each verse to be about, what you want the chorus to be about. And you can kind of take them in you can kind of take them in blocks. That way you don't overload yourself with what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

So you get to break it out. Okay, this is these are the chunks, and then I'm gonna focus on this one so you don't get too crazy, like too far and scattered. And did you find yourself did you like write or type it out, or did you use audio? No, I typed it out. Oh my god. Okay. When I was doing my book, when I was trying, I started by like writing it out, but typing it out. And it was torture because I would find myself editing the words and the thoughts as I was trying to write the story. And it just got me. I mean, every time I did it, it would, I would just get all spun up around the wheels.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, you just gotta throw it on the paper first, just gotta get it all out of your head and under the paper.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Yeah. And then go back and massage it and smooth it out. Yeah. So I cheated, Doug. I found after that, I was like, piss on this, I ain't doing it that way. And I just recorded myself telling the stories because you know, my book's different, it's like my stories, my personal stories in the lesson. And so I just vomited it all out on audio and then trans had it, you know, now with all those things we have out there, just transcribed it and it's like, okay, let me fix, you know, fix it a little bit. I had somebody to do the formatting and all that other stuff too, because I don't care. Like that is fortune for me. And so for our aspiring authors out there, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I love that you talked about the hybrid publishers. And so, in that case, you found your publisher, and I guess you got to put up some money to get the publishing thing going. They don't just publish it, but they handle a lot of the other stuff.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Yeah, they handle everything for you. All they do is ask you some questions, like we discussed earlier. And yeah, they really take care of all the in the weeds kind of stuff, I guess is the way to put it.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Yeah, yeah. And so you got a couple more Jasper books coming up, or in in the hopper, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Yep, yeah.

From Cartoon Jingle To Spotify

SPEAKER_01 25:06

And so, when did songwriting become a part of this?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

That's a little crazier. Uh, so I got the Jasper books, yeah. And uh, I met a guy named Dave Noel, he's an Academy Award-winning, he creates TV game shows. Oh, him on LinkedIn as well. Nice, uh, and I got to talk to him a little bit, and uh, he's got a book out, and I read it, and he says, You're he's like, everybody tells you to think big. And he's like, You're wasting your time, don't think big. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, think huge. He's like, think like worldwide huge. He's like, you're gonna spend time thinking about it anyway. Why limit yourself? All right, yeah, that that's a valid point, really. So I started thinking about Jasper and the brand, because when I got the when I started the book, it's like not I really maybe can get a little bit further if I have a brand, more so than just children's books. And so I started thinking, what's the next step from a children's book? And I thought, uh Sunday, Saturday morning cartoons, right? Ah, okay, yeah. And I got thinking about that, and I'm like, well, if I'm gonna have a Saturday morning cartoon, the first step I really need to do is I gotta have a jingle. All Saturday morning cartoons have a little jingle at the beginning to introduce the thing. So I didn't know much about writing, and I typed down an idea and I ran it through Chat GPT and stuff. And between me and Chat GPT, we came up with uh what sounded like a pretty good song, so we came up with some pretty good lyrics. And I met a guy on LinkedIn that does this is when I think Suno was first coming out. He could put vocals and a musical arrangement uh to the lyrics through that app. Yeah, and we did that and it came out great. And I'm like, Mark made you did a great job. And he sounds really good writing. He's like, it's kind of the same thing. He's like, whatever made you think about writing songs, and you have any more. I wrote one about how old am I? Uh I wrote one about 40 years ago. It catches up to you, and you can't keep track of how long ago. Right. It was about 40 years ago. I wrote a Christian song, but I hear my master calling. And I always thought my whole life, it's if I could just put this to music, that would be really cool. Let Mark know about it. He's shoot it to me, man. He's like, let me let me look at it and see what I can do with it. And as soon as he read the words, he's like, dude, you could sell these, you could sell these lyrics today. I'm telling you. He's like, This is just that good. And you put it to a you put it to vocals and the music to it. And it did real well. I put it out there on YouTube and stuff and everything. And I don't want to say I got thousands or millions of views, but for a guy who's never written a song before, a couple hundred isn't too bad. Heck yeah. So he's like, Have you written any more stuff? And I said, Oh, I forted around some some fun beach songs, kind of Kenny Chesney, Jimmy Buffett, Zach Brown kind of style kind of thing. And he's he was he wanted to do more Christian stuff. He's like, Why are you doing secular music when you can write Christian music so well? You know, like that's a valid point. Yeah. So between me and him, we pulled together some more stuff, and I've got a uh CD out on Spotify called Send Me. And it's got about it's got about eight Christian songs on it. It's got one that I wrote for my wife called Chrisfield Draymond. I think it's Chrisfield Maryland's Our Old Town, and it's also got the Jasper and Friends jingle on it just because I didn't know what else to put on it. It was the first time I'd ever done anything like that, right? So it's like, let me just put out everything I got. Yeah, see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Oh my goodness. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

So then the ball just started rolling from there.

A Veteran Song With Social Impact

SPEAKER_00 28:41

And I wanted to do a song for the troops. And I'm the same thing at the kids' book. It's like everything's been done. I need a good original idea. That's when we don't all come home the same, hit me. It's like because we all go TDY, we all go on deployments, we can all witness the same trauma, we can all go through the same stress, but we don't all handle it the same.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

And we come home, and that's okay if we realize we don't all come home the same. And I felt like maybe civilians needed to understand that too, because I'm sure nothing against civilians, but they'll see one guy being just fine, and they'll see another guy who's a total wreck. And it's like, well, how can he be a total wreck? Look at this guy over here, he's got no problems at all, he's functioning properly, but we don't all deal with it the same way. And I felt like that needed to be addressed, for lack of a better word.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah, and so you published or you wrote that, and it's you got some kind of award coming up, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Oh, yeah, you couldn't. I didn't have this on my bingo card to Josie. I had a good friend of mine who I haven't seen in a hundred years. He's one of my first friends at my first duty station, Tony Corrales in Arizona, and I shared the lyrics with him. He's like, dude, this is really good. And he didn't do anything at first, but he's pulling an album together. And he's has anybody bid on that song yet of yours? I'm like, no, I've I've fished it out there to a couple as best I could because I don't know the correct, I don't know how you contact a singer, an artist. I don't think you mind if I do it. I'm like, Tony, man, I'd be honored if you do it. So Tony Crowis put on his About a Woman CD. He's a country singer down on Tucson, and uh yeah, now September 20th, we have to go to the Grand Old Hopi for the Josie Music Awards. It was nominated for Social Impact Song of the Year.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

I look uh congratulations, though. I mean, you're uh just a solid dude, and of course, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Of course, you're gonna win Song of the Year. Yeah, it's wild. No, I feel like just getting nominated. I made a little I made a little canvas thing. I got two of them, one's hanging on the wall, one's still on plastic. Nice, you know. It's like I may not bring home the award, but I'm always gonna be a Josie Music Award nominee. So it's like I got that wall, it's like that's kind of cool. I feel like I already won. If we win, if we actually win, that'll be like the cherry on top.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Right, right, right. I beautiful. Again, I think your perspective about it or just gratitude for for where it's at, right? Gratitude for the hundred YouTube views of the thing. I I think that's one of the fundamental principles for like massive growth, is having a pers like being able to be grateful for what we have and what we don't have, like the reality of it all is just so massive. There's a couple things that I want to make sure doesn't get lost.

Decisions, Discipline, And Time Horizons

SPEAKER_01 31:29

The first thing is, well, maybe there's some parts to the first thing, but the first, we'll just say that the first bucket is this this didn't all happen in a two-year time frame, right? If we go back to the NASCAR, the question, why am I not working on my dream to now be nominated for the award with two science fiction novels published, the Jasper thing going on, multiple songs being written and distributed, having a record on Spotify. What is that window of time? Over what window of time did that happen?

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Yeah, the NASCAR thing. I joined the Air Force in 1985. The NASCAR thing happened around 1999, 2000.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Yep. So 26 years. Yeah. More or less. Yeah. What I think is ultra important for the listener out there, LM family member, is it didn't happen one day after the next. It didn't happen all in sequential as planned, per the calendar. It started 26 years ago. And it probably there was probably some hot spots, some cold spots, some high intensity, some very low intensity. Other priorities happen, but you never stopped. And here we are now on the back end where it looks like man, Doug is just out there, he's he's gonna be singing, and next thing we know, he's gonna be doing launching rockets, right? Like, because that's what the trajectory looks like right now. But I think what's important is that people understand the time horizon through which all of these things happen. Because, or maybe there's a question along the way, what were the big rock lessons that from let's say the NASCAR? First the awareness, I need to work on my dream, then the NASCAR thing, then the next thing. Were there any nuggets that you pulled from each of those experiences that kind of set the cobblestones on the path to where you're at now?

SPEAKER_00 34:20

No, I think the Air Force really set me on the trajectory because there's no failure. You can't you have to make a decision, you have to make a decision right now. It's gonna be right or it's gonna be wrong. If it's wrong, you make it right, kind of thing. Uh it's you just you will become paralyzed by decisions at some point in life, and you just have to make it and make it work. There's I I worked for a company that was owned by a couple of brothers. It was a family company, and I watched them something as simple as a free giveaway hat, and I don't mean to talk bad about them, they're a very nice company, but they would take six months to design this free giveaway hat. Uh-huh. I was like, dude, I can do that in a day and just boom, put it out there, get it made, and have it here. And it took them six months, it seemed like, to pull that together. And that's what I'm talking about. It's like your progress will be even slower if you go that route. For sure. As far as my books are concerned, I started that in about 2020 when it actually started publishing. I started putting them out there. And I like to tell everybody I'm six years into my 10-year overnight success. That's how people are going to see it when it finally takes off.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Yes, yes, 100%. Oh man. So key principle make a damn decision, take the step. Because if it that like that's the thing, if it's the wrong decision, you will know and you will adjust accordingly. If it's the right decision, awesome. Guess what? There's more decisions behind that one to be made. But we were on the subject of making a decision. Because if it's wrong, you can learn from it, you can adjust quickly, and if it's right, you keep moving forward. But so many of us, and I've been there, get spun up around what should I do? What if, and we never make the damn decision. But I guess was it through your training? Was it through a particular manager or leader that you had that helped you understand, make a damn decision and go?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

As you work your way up through the ranks in the military, you got your officer academy you go through, and they get you spun up on leadership and supervisory skills and all that sort of thing. And then that's really where you learn that. And sometimes they sometimes your decisions, the folks that you're above, don't quite understand why you're making them until you're done, and then they're like, Oh, okay. So your decision isn't always gonna make sense to everybody around you, but you just keep pushing forward and know that you got the path you want to be on, and you're gonna you're gonna get there.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

Yeah, and I imagine similar to the song you wrote, we don't all come home the same. People have gone through the same training as you did, and they probably struggled to make decisions, they weren't as apt of making a decision and moving forward as you were. Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Oh no, you're absolutely right. Yeah, it's they can get stuck in the weeds sometimes, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah, I think it's a natural thing. My experience is that the more I do it, the better the outcome is than not doing it. Like that's just it. I'm gonna learn faster. Is it gonna be messy and disgusting? Probably. Will I die? No, okay. Let's do the thing. Let's go and learn from success. Yeah, so okay, so that's a big rock. I think I want to make sure that the LM family member out there catches on to that. Make a damn decision, learn from the decision, don't worry so much about right or wrong, spend some time, use the information that's available to you, but freaking pull the trigger so you can learn and adjust. Another really monumental one that for you just seems like not a problem, but I know for a lot of people it's very difficult is ignoring, like if people ghost you, whatever. If people reject you, whatever. Just keep on rolling, just keep going forward. Is there like a particular instance that helped you get to that? Well, say build that tough shell so that it doesn't eat at you, so that you can doesn't keep you from moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

You're really making me hark back here. What's the probably probably all the letters sent out I sent out for the NASCAR team because I just did send out so many. And uh kind of toughened your shell a little bit. Because I remember when I after that, when I started doing the the book stuff and I started getting the publishers coming back telling me no, it didn't sting as much. And it's just like alright, you know, somebody's gonna do it for me. It's just not gonna be the same. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

I love that because yes, like they don't have a choice, I just need to find them.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Thank you for saying no, see you later. Move. I think that and it's hard, right? Because we're human beings, our feelings get hurt. It's the most monumental, specialist, awesomest thing in the world, and we're perfect for it. They just don't realize it. But to continue forward, man, I think is a monumental with a skill, because I I believe it's a skill, right? It's not an inherent thing because you said it's stung at first, and now it's a skill. You built it over time that other people can build. It's just maybe exposure therapy. Just go get rejected a bunch, and you'll get used to it. The other thing that came up is you connected with the guy on LinkedIn that does the TV shows and stuff, and his outside perspective contributed to you thinking broader and bigger. And okay, so when you reached out to that individual, did you know, or did was that the intent? Were you looking for somebody to shift your perspective, or was it just uh casual, this person's interesting, we have something in common, I want to connect with them.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Yeah, it started with this is uh it started with this book. Um I I bought his book and I read that, and then I started talking to him a little bit more on LinkedIn. And then uh I'm a member of a vet tribe, a bunch of vet entrepreneurs, and we do a Monday Zoom meeting, and he was invited to join our Zoom meeting on a Monday, and he came in and he was talking to everybody, and uh, so that's how we really got to really know each other. And we we we're not like we're best buds, but we contact and we comment on each other's posts every once in a while. I haven't heard anything from him in a while, but he's really impacted my thought process as far as the brand and how to put a brand out there and how to think huge, not just big.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Yeah, no, I and I again for me the nugget that people can take out and apply to their game is get an outside perspective, reach far. Right, because what's the worst thing that can happen? They don't reply back, go find somebody else. Which takes us back to the other lesson. What I'm what's kind of popping out to me and all the things, all these experiences, is there's transferable skills, lessons that can be found in any venue, but doing the actions of the things exposed you to lessons that were transferable that prepped you for the next level, and another lesson to another skill that prepped you for the next level, which goes back to my first question, right? What credentials and certificates and curriculum did you study to have the skill set that you have now? There is none. You did it by living, making decisions, taking action, and going forward, which I think, and maybe this is self-justification. Most of the things I say is or are, but I think that's the key. The people that I have come in contact with that are having the biggest impact and seem to be experiencing a high measure of fulfillment, they're doing it by doing it, not because of their credentials and this sort of thing. And I feel like your story embodies that.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Yeah, thanks. And like I've told you guys before, you've heard me say this before, but I'll say it for everybody watching the podcast if you only have one life, you might as well make it epic.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Oh, in case you missed it, y'all. You only have one life, you might as well make it epic, and we get to define that. And I clearly, Doug, you live by that. How many people look at you sideways and think you're a wacko because you're living an epic life? Do you have any of that?

SPEAKER_00 43:08

I have no idea. No idea. You ain't even worrying about them.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Oh, okay. Now here's an in here's something I'm curious about. You're doing all these things and you have kids. So, how what do you think it's impacted the way your kids approach life and try and experiment and kind of stretch their comfort zones?

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Seeing newly hopefully, yeah. I hope they uh they take that like both my kids and my grandkids. I hope they see as I like to be called crappy. I I hope they see doing these things, and you're like, well, if he can do them, why can't I?

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Which is the same question you had. If he's working on his dreams, why am I not? Yes. Oh my god. Yeah, be the example, the guiding light to help to plant those questions and expand their thing. And it's a norm for them, right? Because Pappy writes books, Pappy writes songs, Pappy gets nominations for awards. Of course, I can do that. Pappy did it. That's the beautiful thing. I see people stepping into making a significant life decision or taking on starting a new adventure, a new experiment, side gig, whatever. And I get excited because it's amazing for the person that I'm talking to. But I in my head, it's like, man, all the people in your world, you just expanded their world. By you taking these actions, it becomes more accessible to them. And by default, just guilty by association. Now I am compulsively optimistic, but I know that it's possible. I know that doing these things, which also reinforces another one of my things, obsessions, is if I share my gifts and talents with others, it will be a signal to people. And the more I do that, the more gifts and talents I discover, and then it just continues to go. So on that line of thinking, Doug, in terms of it wasn't on your bingo card to get nominated for the music award, the books, etc. What's out there in the midst that you're kind of like, that would be cool. Let's see what that looks like. Is there any big grand idea that

Jasper Brand Dreams Like Mini Golf

SPEAKER_01 45:28

you're exploring or flirting with down the road?

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Along the lines of uh White's books, you think about a cartoon. Now that's not done yet. Um I got the song I had a guy from LinkedIn who didn't like a 30-second intro to a cartoon. So I have the intro to the cartoon now, and I've shared that on my LinkedIn page. But something I got in the back of my head, because we go to Disney, we go down to Disney World all the time, and we're going down in November. So I feel like I grabbed a lot of inspiration from down there as well. I'm thinking, why can't Jasper and Friends have the mini golf course? Yeah, of course. I can see it in my head. It's like you you got all these plastic characters out of the books that are like five-year-old high. So all the little kids can come up and hug them and they can take pictures of them and all that sort of thing, and they can kind of each hulk their way through a part of the story or a whole book or whatnot. And it's it's I would love to deal with something like that. I can't financially just yet, but that's that's certainly out there, but it's there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

It's there, yeah. Yeah, you're saying golf course, I'm thinking amusement park.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Why not?

unknown 46:43

Why not?

SPEAKER_00 46:44

But why not? Epic life, baby.

SPEAKER_01 46:47

And if some people might be like, oh, they're being silly, but for real, why not? I think that's the the perspective that the person gave you was think big, not just big, but gigantic, be crazy. I've heard a saying, like, if you aim for the stars, you might miss, but you'll hit the moon.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Well, I would say shoot for the moon because if you miss, you'll land among the stars. I've heard that one before.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

That's the one, that's the one. Shoot for the moon because if you miss, you'll hit the stars. Thank you. But yes, why stay in this atmosphere, man? Let's go big and we'll have something crazy. Another thing, Jennifer and I talk about this a lot on our when we're having our 101 mind melds on how we're gonna conquer the universe. And it's when we look back, if we would have planned things out the way conventional thinking is to plan and set milestones and targets and KPIs, we would have followed the plan. And there's no way it would have been as amazing as it is now without all the map, without everything mapped out, just responding, contributing, receiving, responding. It's been far more amazing than we could have ever imagined. And we give ourselves space like it's to expand the thinking, just like you said, like aim for the stars or aim for the moon, hit the stars. Oh my goodness. Okay, Mr. Doug, where do we send people if they want to get a hold of you? Where's the best place to send them so they can connect with you and contribute to the golf course, the amusement

Where To Find Doug’s Work

SPEAKER_01 48:26

park, get a handle of the books? Where should we direct folks to go?

SPEAKER_00 48:32

I mean, um Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. If you see anything uh that's jarring friends related, that's me. Uh, I'm pretty all over Google. Um, my books, as far as they're concerned, are pretty much everywhere online, Barnes and Noble Books Rillian, Amazon, Walmart. My goal is to get them in stores. That's the next big goal. I want them stocked in stores because if you get buried in an algorithm on a search engine and the sales just aren't there. Where if kids are walking through the store, they see Jasper, he's just so lovable looking, they're gonna be like, I gotta have this. I just know they are because I've seen the reaction through all the uh signings out there and stuff, kids really gravitatories. Well, I'm confused.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Fantastic. Good. We'll make sure we get some links in the show notes so people can connect you. And folks, keep an eye out for Jasper at Walmart and everywhere else.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Yeah, there's a web pages, yeah. www.jasper dash n dash friends.com.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

Boom. Jasper dash n dash friends.com. Boom. And now I have a perfect excuse or gift for my nephew. I've got uh nephew and two niece, three nieces now. So they're gonna be jasper fied here this year pretty soon. This is exciting. All right, so that takes us to or brings us to our closing question, the grand slam question. Are you ready for it? I hope so. I hope so. I think you are, and again, Doug, I'm really appreciate you giving me this much time, even with the technical difficulties.

The Legacy He Wants To Leave

SPEAKER_01 50:15

We connected on LinkedIn randomly, popped on the live stream, showed up to the after party. I was like, oh man, this is this guy. Like, I gotta take some of his juju over here because I love what he's doing, the way you think and operate. It's clear you've got a humble personality, you have and walk and live in gratitude, and you're contributing to leave the world better than you found it, which makes me really excited about what your answer might be for the question. The question is this what is the promise you are intended to be?

SPEAKER_00 50:57

That's deep. Uh I can hope for is that I just leave this stuff for everybody, it'll be out there long after I'm gone, and I just hope that it can keep keep influencing, keep inspiring people.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Yes, and I'll tell you seriously, you are an inspiration to me. Just the things that you've done, and you're kind of like nonchalant, but you know how much work you put into it. It I just like, man, this dude's got it going on. So you have, I need to say it out loud. You have spoken into my life, and I am grateful for it. And no doubt that you're gonna continue to do that for many people and generations with the books and the Jasper stuff. So thank you, man. Did you have fun? Oh, yes, you bet. Excellent.