Why Construction Needs a "People Blueprint" to Fix Turnover with Brittany Jacques

Cold Open And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I do not care what your website says, and I do not care about the wallpaper at the office. Because all those fancy principles and mission statements don't mean nothing until I meet the people I'm going to be working with on site. What is going on, LM family? Back again. And I've said it before, but just in case you didn't hear it, having a podcast is an amazing excuse to meet and connect with people that are beyond your reach. And today's guest is one of those human beings. She is a behavioral social scientist. She's the founder and CEO of Magnified Consulting. She is also known as the construction whisperer, which I love because I've been accused of that in the past. Her name is Miss Brittany Hawkes. She's got the energy. And if you're watching this, if you're just listening to this, you need to watch it on YouTube just to catch the smile. And so we're going to get to know more about Miss Brittany. But if this is your first time here, you are listening to the Learnins and Missteps podcast. Where you get a behind-the-scenes seat to see how amazing human beings just like you are sharing their gifts and talents to leave the world better than they found it. I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we're about to get to know Miss Britney. Miss Britney, how are you doing, sister?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

What's happening, Jesse? I'm so excited to be here and finally get the opportunity to meet you and not meet you in person, but virtually. And I watched a lot of your podcasts, seen all the energy, and I'm I hope I can just give that back.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

You're giving it, girl. You're giving it. And folks, like for real, this is our first conversation ever, right? We've texted and emailed, but like this is our first conversation, which is ultimate for me because I get to know you. Like I get to be super, super curious.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Jesse, I would say maybe for you as a first time, but I've been I've watched all of your podcasts, so I've gotten to cheat behind the scenes and get to know you vicariously.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Oh my god, that is so cool of things. Y'all need Brittany listened. Y'all need to tell your friends to listen to the podcast. That's so cool. Okay, so I like to start with a very simple question just to kind of get us warmed up. Are you okay with that?

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Yes, I am ready.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Okay, so why here it

Why Magnifying People Matters

SPEAKER_00 2:33

goes. Why is magnifying the people you need important?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I'm gonna broad scope this just a little bit. And what I want to say is in construction, there's only two things, right? You have your projects and then you have your people. So we know on the project side, there is so much infrastructure put behind it. You have the blueprints, you have the schedule, you have the meetings, and I'm sure it can be revised and all that fun stuff. But that same infrastructure, the time, energy, and efforts is wholly what's missing on the people development side of it. We have fractions, we have leadership coaching, we have workforce development, we have HR, but they're all segmented. And so, in order for us to help the next generation to make this a repeatable process, we need that infrastructure like we have on the project side, we need that on the people side as well. So that way, people out in the field, they're doing the work and they want to be highlighted, they want to be seen, valued, and heard. Because I know if you walk up to them, they're like, what if I give you a compliment? They're like, oh, I hate compliments. But it means everything to them and they just light up. And when they're excited, they want to work harder, they're innovative and they want to show up and they want to do the thing, they want to stay with the companies. So, my my biggest thing in magnifying people is when you magnify people, you magnify everyone's success, all the way up to the tippy top, all the way out in the field, everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, oh, I love it. And you use the phrase people infrastructure, because yes, I agree a hundred percent. Any business, but construction specifically, because that's the world we swim in, it's a social technical endeavor. And there's so much time, effort, and energy around the technical elements of the building and planning and executing and all of that. And then there's kind of like just weak sauce attempts at the people stuff. And you said people infrastructure, this is part of your business. What is a people infrastructure? I think we're just gonna give the listener credit that they understand how important people are to construction. Yes, and in some cases, we're giving more credit than they deserve, but I said that, not you. But what is a people infrastructure and how does it help decision makers do better when it comes to their people?

SPEAKER_02 4:57

It depends where the pain point and the bleed is at. Let's just say for a new company that's building and growing and wanting to pull people into the trades, it starts with a life cycle. It starts with what does this position do? If I'm brand new to the field, what does it look like for me? How much money am I gonna make? Am I gonna be able to grow? And then after learning the technical thing, it's the leadership, the human-to-human communication, because you can learn the technical piece no matter if you're an engineer, you're working with your hands. But the biggest and the hardest thing is that human communication and bridging the gap between the generations. You have your baby boomers who need to talk to their Gen Zers out in the field and cross-communicated between the office. And so that is the importance of building that structure where we have a plan. We have a people plan going in this. I know clearly how my path, when I'm growing up through the trades or what have you, where I'm headed. And maybe if I want to do something different, maybe I want to do marketing and I can take badass pictures out in the field. Like now I have, I've already seen the lens of what I want it to look like. You can use it in pitch decks for going to sell the business for like on the procurement side. There's so many exciting things to do, but people need a plan, they need transparency, we need communication, and it's just it's giving that transparency that's so important.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah, I find what I'm hearing is connection, right? We say we say communication a lot, yeah. And what I think most people interpret that rather, what I see people how I see people practice that is they talk. They think because I talked and said words at somebody else that they communicated, yes, negative, right? I think no, we get kind of we see the effects of that. What's missing is connection, and so what like between you just talked about the generational piece, it's kind of like how

Defining People Infrastructure

SPEAKER_00 6:50

do you connect with the different individuals, the different generations, the different everything? Because we're all are we're all special, unique creatures out there, yeah. Are from leadership to entry level.

unknown 7:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Now, where did that insight come from? Oh my goodness, I've got to help these folks. I want to help these folks build a people structure. How did you come across that? Was it something a post that you read? Where does that obsession come from?

SPEAKER_02 7:17

So, very good question. That obsession started with me different periods in my life, but I would say most recently, I had previously, before I had started my own business, worked for a company that was growing and scaling small to medium-sized businesses and all the different functions that we had on our team, it was called the strategic business unit. And we had marketing, we had sales, we had professional development, HR, all the things. And what I learned from my marketing cohort is neuroscience with marketing. How do we get into the minds of the buyer? What are their behavior patterns? How, what is their buying decisions and their triggers? And then I'm like, okay, we can also use this in leadership training as well. So as I broke out to my on my own, one of my clients is like, Brittany, you need to go out to the field to see what it's like. And so for two years, I was out in the field, I went to the morning huddles, and I love being out in the field, period point blank from the morning huddles. But what I really noticed like progressing through the day is you have your foreman who are some oftentimes Gen Xers. And so their communication style is a little bit different than let's say a Gen Zer who's a brand new laborer, and they're fast, they're digital, they want information right now. And those two didn't really link up. So what I noticed, the easiest way to target these types of things was to help them basically just translate what they're seeing. Because oftentimes you would hear the foreman, this guy is lazy. He doesn't, he's always on his phone. But I'm like, if you get closer to him, did you see what he's YouTubing? He's YouTube, how to do the task in front of him. So he wants to learn and it's building that gap in that communication, helping that visible side, like what become actually visible to him. And then it started to break down. Oh, let me have a conversation with him. Let me tell him what he's gonna do today, follow up with him at the end of the day. And so it started breaking down those little things. As long as they were easy, they were actionable, they got results, and it helped better the speed communication. That's where I noticed it to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Nice, and so you saw this on multiple projects, multiple teams, multiple roles, the consistency of just I think of it as like a translation break. They're speaking, we're saying the same thing, but we're not translating it in terms the other person understands. Yeah, and and digital thing, it's funny. I hear every job I go to, these damn kids are on their phone all day. And I yeah, if you can't tell, I got some highlights, right? I have like it is it blows my mind how much time people how how do I say this without I'm not gonna be critical. Like, I know that if I didn't have my phone, I would be in trouble. I do my run my business through my damn phone. Now, I also remember a time where there was no way anybody could get a hold of me on the job site unless they called the office, and the office called the foreman, and the foreman came and got me. And then we had to walk to the trailer to get on the phone that had a cord that I had to dial, right? Like that's where I started. And now it's like everybody has to have their phone on them, like every single human being on the job site has a damn phone, right? So it's a very different environment. So it's easy for me to assume that they're slacking off, but you gave a really great point. Like maybe they're looking up how to do the task. Now, some grouchy foreman might say they should know what the hell they're doing. Right. But you and I think, no, we're horrible at teaching people how to do a thing. Did you get to see that out there? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Yes, totally. And it's funny that you say that because I get an immediate visual. My one of my first times stepping out into the field, and you saw the foreman, he had his arms crossed like this, and he was standing and he's staring at the he's staring at the little gin zer who is a brand new laborer to the crew, and he told him, I was like, What is he doing? And the foreman said, I told him to sweep, and he doesn't even know how to sweep a brew. He doesn't know how to sweep with a brew. So did you give him some tips and tricks and help him out a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

So yeah, I've had some of those. It's like, oh my goodness, we got a lot of work to do with this one. Uh I want to do the LM family member shout-out. And this one goes to Miss Ava Wong, who was one of my victims in a recent communicate high-leverage communication workshop I did at UTSA. She says, amazing and hilarious workshop ran by Jesse. 10 out of 10, would recommend for any leadership. So I got some street cred with the students out there at UTSA. Ava, thank you for taking the time to leave

Generations And The Phone Myth

SPEAKER_00 12:10

that review. For the rest of you folks out there, if you can't tell, I love attention. So anytime you make the investment, take the time to leave a review, do the stars, share the thing. I super, super appreciate it. And it gives me an excuse to shout you out in a future episode.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

Yeah, and you know what? It's scary, right? For somebody who's brand new to the industry, who's new to the field, and they want to make a living, they know they're hearing all the marketing, come to the trades, make a ton of money. And so they go in with that expectation. And then once they hit a crew, that culture is not quite capturing what the marketing is saying. And right? Oh, yeah. It's like, how do we get that same mindset and that culture we're trying to capture marketing? How do we breathe that out into the fields and empower the generations? Like specifically with the Gen Xersers, sometimes it's just having holding a mirror. They like the they're very direct, they're independent, they want to get to the point value efficiency. But with the millennials, they're very collaborative, they're purposeful, purpose-driven. So it's just understanding what each generation needs and what they're looking for in their communication and size. And then, Jesse, the communication, right? So we're talking about your paralinguistics. Are you raising your voice? Are you lowering your voice? How do you hold yourself? Are you approachable? These are all different tips, tricks, and things that we can pass and help every person in the business.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Oh my God. There's a we're gonna, yes, yes, there's a lot there. For me right now, it's coming across as like real skills, the invisible ones. But I want to come back to that because it's ultra important. You talked about the culture, like the actual culture that the person experiences is not in alignment with the marketing that got them through their door.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

And I'm a mega critic about this. I've said it many times. I do not care what your website says, and I do not care about the wallpaper at the office, because all those fancy principles and mission statements don't mean nothing until I meet the people I'm going to be working with on site. And then that's the real.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

And so I there's a lot of hype, a lot of marketing, about a lot of stuff out there about hey, come to the trades, come to construction. Because it's amazing. Like, don't get me wrong. Construction is amazing. It is an environment that will it is uh the type of environment that will help you discover skills you never thought you had to build anything you want to build. Yeah, and I'm talking from first hand experience, right? Came up as an apprentice, got my journeyman license. Now I have my own consulting, coaching, training business, podcast, wrote a book, and the skills to make all of that. Thank you. But the skills to do that, I learned as an installer. And I believe that everybody can learn those skills, whether they want to apply them or not, that's a different story.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

That being said, we're talking of like there's come on, come work, you make a lot of money. Yeah, you can make a hell of a lot of money now, but we still largely treat people like crap. And so, what do you am I being overly critical, or what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 15:29

No, absolutely not. And that's one of the arguments that I make is yes, we're doing a heavy push to getting people into the trades because for every five per five people that are retiring, two are replacing. What happens when they get there? Is that number still going to remain the same? Because we see the highest turnover out in the field with the labors and entry-level craftspeople. What is the why behind that?

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I think if you ask experienced folks that are in the field, they're gonna say it's because this generation don't want to work. But my honest answer is because we treat them like garbage. Yes, we don't know how to develop them, we don't know how to support them, we don't know how to help them grow. And that's why for real. In today back in the day, I had to walk into an office, fill out an application with a pen and paper, get a job. Right today, I can make money selling pictures of my feet on the internet. Oh look so if right people can make you can make a living doing you can make your own business from home. It's straight up. Yeah, it's so if my option is to go and work in the elements, it's hot, it's cold, right? The construction's not comfortable, it's amazing, but it ain't comfortable, and then get yelled at and minimized and treated like crap for 40,000 a year, yeah, or start my little internet business where I can wear flip-flops and a tank top all day and make 30 a year. Guess what I'm gonna do? Right. Am I just am I overplaying this?

SPEAKER_02 17:02

No, you're not, and I think it's even broad broader than that, too, right? Because you have all the the different moving pieces, you have the one-on-one within a crew, that little dynamic, too. But then you have the trade trade relations, right? You're not the only in most cases, you're not the only trade that's on site, and then you have the site superintendents from the general contracting side. And sometimes we see they see fresh meat when it comes to brand new foreman. And it's like, how much can I sneak in there? And this brand new foreman who's just wanting to please and make a name for himself, is all of a sudden doing free work because he's bypassed his PM because he got bullied into doing it and he wants to be a top performer. So that's mistreatment, it happens all the time because my biggest take, Jesse, is things are visible, but they are also invisible to other people. So if the higher ups had an idea of what was going out in the field and wondering why in the world things aren't working, why schedules are slipping, why people are getting frustrated. Like when you walk out there and see what's happening, it's fast and it's easy to figure out. These are the things that are happening, and these are the things that we can solve, not just in this one little pocket, it's systemically all over.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and you point out something super invisible is as an apprentice or like an entry-level trade professional, there's there's extra layers of pressure, right? Yeah, the GC is adding to that pressure. You say sometimes, I say most of the time, the GC has a layer of pressure, the form in the other trades. And so if I'm new and I to me, it's fun because I love conflict. But if I didn't like conflict, I would have said, Man, forget this. This is hard. Not the work, but the pressure. It there's real pressure to be dealing with, and we're blind to that, we don't pay attention to that, right? So we could treat our people better, which is why I think I love what you bring in terms of like magnifying the people. Because yes. Now you mentioned the micro skills, right? The the way we speak, the way we communicate. How do you help people with that? Here I am, almost gonna be 50 years old in two months, and I would say in the last five, maybe eight years, I finally kind of like, oh, I'm part of the problem, but or maybe

When Jobsite Culture Breaks Trust

SPEAKER_00 19:30

the main source of the problem because of the way I communicate, because of the way I don't listen, and and it's just a matter of a lot, a lot of pain, right? Rehab and therapist and a bunch of exes and everything that I find like maybe I should change. But how do you I mean, this is your business. You're the construction whisperer, right? How do you help people with that? How do you help them, one, become aware of it, and two, start making adjustments to produce better outcomes?

SPEAKER_02 19:58

I'm gonna start with the who because there's always up at the top, there's always somebody who's gonna be, John Maxwell calls it the laws of the lid. So you have somebody at the top who's gonna be their effect, their, what is it called? Their belief lids in themselves, their operational effectiveness lid. Forgive me, I'm forgetting the other ones, but they are the cap to whoever is underneath them, their beliefs in themselves, their operational effectiveness. So it you have to start not out in the field, it has to be with the folks making the decisions up the Jibby top. So it's gonna be your owners, it's gonna be C-suite officials, the folks that are middle management, because whatever they believe, the folks underneath them are only gonna be able to cap out right there. So it's getting that awareness first and foremost, making sure is it a communication problem? Are people leaving? Why are they leaving? It's the way that we talk to them. We're disrespectful when we blow up, where it's like it's fire everywhere. And but on that same token, we don't want to be disrespectful. That's not the reputation that we want to have out in the field because that's not what wins the next project. So it's like in direct violation of client retention. So it's like you have to get the attention of the money, the pockets first, right? Is that causing a money problem? And I would argue and say that people development is the best, the single most important investment that a business owner can make. But you have to have a business owner that's aligned because at the end of the day, if it's just profitability, they're gonna have a very short attention span for people development, and that is a long-term game. It's not like you can change a person in three quick steps, but it takes time, it takes 18 months, it takes however that person is or is not bought in, but it's a it's their management above them that allows them to have that autonomy.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah. Amen and amen. I'm sure you've come across the pygmalion effect.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

No, what's that?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Just sit okay. So It's the same principle. Um, now it's what's interesting is it was an actual study back in the day. They had a group of elementary students, the smart kids and the kids like me, the problem kids, and they were graduating to the next year, whatever it was, third or fourth grade. But what they did was they told the teachers, hey, you're getting all the smart kids. And they told the other teacher, hey, you're getting all the Jesse dummies. But they were getting the opposite. So they told the teacher, they said, Hey, you're getting all the smart kids, but they were actually getting the problem kids.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

And the other teacher that they said you're getting the dumb kids, they were actually getting the smart kids.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

What ended up happening is they treated them like they were smart or dumb. And because they treated them like they were smart, the kids behaved and operated like they were, they had better outcomes at the end of the year. They did better on all their stuff.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

The smart kids that were the teacher thought was the dumb kids because she treated or he or she treated them like they were dumb. Guess what? They dropped their performance to meet the expectation of what the leader did. Now, clearly, this was done way, way back because if anybody did that today, it would be freaking, they'd be canceled. But it proved that people will live up to your expectations. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, similar to the the principle you talked about, right? It's the leader lid. And so the way I recognize that in me is I used to lose my mind when people brought me a problem. I would get pissed and visibly and audibly pissed. There was no confusion that I was upset. I wasn't upset at the person, I was upset at the situation. But the person does not differentiate that. All they know is, man, don't tell Jesse because he's gonna lose his mind.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

So what happens? They hide problems. Yes, and the problems get bigger, yes, until I built the habit of welcoming and even with a lot of practice celebrating problems. All of us, so it was all dependent on the way I reacted to the bad news. Not that I yelled at them or if I was mad at them or not. And a lot of us like to say, I'm not mad at them, I'm mad at the situation. Like it doesn't matter, it feels the same way to them. Who loves us, man? Chill out, like say awesome, thank you for that. What can we do to fix it? Do you have any ideas? We got to fix this and not lose it because it informs their behavior a hundred percent. And so I love also that you're targeting the tippy tippy top. So, in terms of like the business value of this type of stuff, like we've I've seen this in not informal because you're way more accomplished and uh professional than I am. I just kind of like that is what I think I'm seeing. But when I'm out doing my training and my workshops and stuff, what I hear over and over, and it's kind of good for me because it's my business, um, but it's not good for the industry because I hear it all the time, and I'm talking about folks that have been in the industry 20, 30, 40 years. They're like, oh my goodness, this was great. This company's awesome. This is the first time I've ever had training, and I've been doing this for X number of decades. And so one, I like to think that they're just totally blown away by my magnificence. Of course, really that's what I'm saying. But I think it's the problem's bigger than that. Yeah, they've there's so many people in our industry that are working for companies that make zero investment in their professional development. Yes, and so when they go to a company that actually does, let's not even talk about the quality of the professional development, right? Just the fact that they have it, I believe is a retention strategy. Yeah, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 25:52

A hundred, a hundred, a hundred and show you numbers all day long. There is a direct correlation to it every single time. And it doesn't matter what side of the spectrum that you're on, if you're office or field or what have you, because at the end of the day, construction is that it's very technical. It's highly technical. And Jesse, I would even I would tell you, I'm a social scientist. How in the world do I belong in construction? How in the world? Just gonna walk out to the field and my nickname is rework on the front. Can I hold? Can I carry your trash or what have you? Do not trust me whatsoever. But when it comes to the people development side of it, there I know I told you earlier, and I'm kind of gonna go against that. There is things that you can do on the media side that can get immediate return on that development. And it's giving people confidence to speak up, having that psychological safety, having the influence of networks out in the field, right? So for and what I mean by that, Jesse, is job titles out in the field means squat. So when you job when you go out to the field, it's what can you do? What have you proven? How do you serve? How do you help? That's what I like to call, after being in so many industries, the mystique of the field and what really gravitates me towards the field because it's about what you do, how you give, it's that service. And um I I would say the immediate return is giving a laborer out in the field, giving them the opportunity to say, hey, you pick up trash into the bigger picture. If we don't pick up trash, we could make the GC mad, lose our jobs, and we wouldn't be out and work, or that

Leadership Lids And Expectations

SPEAKER_02 27:30

affects bonuses. But it's telling them the why behind it, why it's important, how they add to the big picture. If we share those insights, that immediate return, people take pride in their work and they're like, that's easy, I can do that. And then they want to learn and do more, and then they teach somebody else behind them too. So it's kind of just self-propelling.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. I love give people confidence, mass massive, so valuable. And now, if you run across a person like me, you might want to throttle back on giving them the confidence because fools like me, they get a little bit of confidence, they're gonna run freaking crazy.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

No, I'm all for it. Let's blow it up.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah, and four. Okay, so social scientists, I think I know that you haven't been in construction your whole career. How do you go from being a social scientist and ending up on job sites at daily huddles, interacting with people, be gaining the insight of where the connective tissue is not connecting? What was that?

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Jesse, I actually grew up in construction. So my mom and my grandfather are both my heroes. My grandfather owned an excavation company, so I grew up running on his flatbeds, driving the trucks. He was a rancher, and so out in the back, he'd have all his cattle and his horses. So I would have a blast. I'd run to the front, run on all the different tractors, and then go to the back and go pet some cows. And so what inspires me most about him is that my grandfather had an eighth-grade education and he spent most of his life in construction. And when I was little, he used to tell me, Brita, be a lady, but give them hell. And so I was like, Okay. So that love that. Yeah. So that gave me the confidence to go out into the field. Because when you step into the field, everybody's like, Are you a spy? Are you not a spy? Yeah, yeah. I'm here to develop, I'm here to get your voice. But you have to be fearless when you step into those conversations, those worlds. And so again, grew up with it a little bit. And then once I had the company that I was working for restructured their business model with that strategic business unit, they decided because the type of clients they were cut that were coming in were startup to sub um $8 million. And so they got rid of all things people side. They got rid of HR and they got rid of professional development. So that means I was out on my own. But I had old clients contact me back and they're like, hey, we noticed that you weren't with this company anymore. And he said, he was like, This is our major pain point people. And would you come back? Would you be willing to do some work for us? And secretly they were my favorite business, anyways, because it was so hard. And to see the reward and how proud these people were when they tried something different once or twice. And really, Jesse, that construction whisper is I do have to whisper a little bit on the side of just try that, just trust me, try it out. And it's giving a shit. Give it a shot. Yeah. And so once they got it, they're like, hey, that was easy to do. Hey, I can do it. Hey, you know what? Where I didn't have that capital, like for operations, just got newly promoted from a project manager and now it's running field operations, didn't have the field credibility because he was the dreaded numbers guy. He never went out to the field. And so it was building that human-to-human interaction. I can build those relationships. And that for me was absolutely everything. That's my why I might keep gravitating towards this industry.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Yeah. Oh my God. I love it. One of the words that you and I both use is humanize, right? Humanize construction, humanize the work. And that really it which sounds fancy, but people are like, why do you say humanize? I'm like, because when we think about work, I'm guilty of it. Yes, I came up through the field. But once I was a format and superintendent, it was all numbers. Like it really was all no. And I didn't really not really, I didn't care about people at all back then. So it was just uh, what's the head count? How many linear feet can they install? That's all I cared about. Yeah, I didn't care about their name. I need to get 2,000 feet, do 500 foot a week. I need four people. I don't care what their names are. Now that I'm not a proponent of that, I do not believe in that anymore. And what I would do is when I would be managing work, leading work out there, is it was head count and output, period. And it was hurry up. Eventually, I had a lot of coaches, a lot of learning along the way. I was like, oh, wait a minute. If I understand their personal experience, like how hard the work is on their body and the conditions that they're having to do this work in and leverage my influence and authority to make it better for them, I have way better output, better outcomes on the projects. I just need to humanize my approach, which is talk to people, listen to people, understand how it affects their body, understand where they are mentally. And folks, I'm not talking like we sat down on the couch and I just asked questions like what's kicking you in the face. Yeah, what ideas do you have to make this better? How's this job better than the last one? Do you have any ideas? It was that, and they would tell me, now here's the deal. I took action on what they told me. And because I took action, I made deposits in the emotional bank account, and they had more ideas, and they started gifting me more of that discretionary effort and making recommendations to make things better. But it's because I was taking action on the thing. Yeah, because I've also been on that other side where they have the round table breakfast with the boss, and what ideas do you have and what can we improve? And you give them a bunch of things and they don't do jack with it. Guess what? You're not getting any more from me.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Anyways, back to the humanization part. You gave this case study of the one prod numbers focused PM, and they got more, a lot more responsibility, and then discovered, like, wow, I can have a lot of influence, I can have that connection with people, and you've helped them with that. You also mentioned that they thought you were a spy.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

And I know a lot of the LM family members that have support roles within an organization, and so they struggle connecting with the workforce, right? With the people out there. So, what do you have any tips and tricks? What how did you build that connection to go from being the spy to the whisperer?

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Okay. Yeah, that is a great question. But before we get there, Jesse, I wanted to backtrack a little bit on what you said when you were starting out with the numbers side of it. My question for you was when you were solely looking at the numbers side and everything, did you notice things like absenteeism creep up?

SPEAKER_00 35:07

It was worse than absenteeism. It was people quitting on me. That's yes. They were absent, like they would be more and more absent, and then they would disappear.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

So, yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

And just for business owners that are listening to this, I really want to lean into that and highlight that because this is the this is really part of an origin on why you should invest in your people and giving them the people skills, the leadership development side of it. Because think of it, the cost to replace one person, their skill set, now the project is on the line, and now the company

Training As A Retention Strategy

SPEAKER_02 35:41

reputation is on the line. It takes six months for a crew to gel. These are all the different factors on why it's so important to have that people development and investing in your company, in your people. And exactly what you said, Jesse, is building that trust. It's a two-way street, right? So I, the worker, if I'm gonna divulge information, what's the why behind it? What are you guys gonna do with it? And it's from the company then to say, hey, with this information, we're gonna plan this out. Maybe not Q4. We can't give you what we eat, what you want right now, but we are listening, we're actively making these changes, and we're gonna set a target to completion date and we're gonna follow up with you. Whatever it looks like, who knows? But it's that continued feedback loop because now they're seen, valued, and heard, and now the company is reaping the benefits, and the company can pour back in. And so it just becomes everybody makes more money that way. But you tell me, ask me your question one more time because I got so lost in that. I was like, this is so good.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yeah, no, that that's perfect. Thank you. And yeah, I what I love is you're making it very clear, a good case for why decision makers should invest in developing their people, developing these different skills, the human shin skills, more than just the technical skills. So thank you for that. The question was the tips. Do you what tips, what were the practices, the techniques you used to go from being the spy to the construction whisperer? Because I know that's like a one pair of boots at a time thing. And I'm assuming that you had you saw some patterns and said, Oh, this works. Um, because again, we have a lot of the LM family, there's a lot of people that play support roles, and they're having that friction of connecting with other people. So anything you can do to help them out would be appreciated.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Absolutely, and I learned this early on is that people's skill is doesn't commate to everyone. So I always like when things are not easy just to break it down and like you, Jesse. There's two things you can do. So let me tell the two things. Yep, lead with curiosity. I'm gonna give you the C's, you're gonna lead with curiosity, and you can either find something in common or you can compliment. And so, what does that look like, right? When you step out into the field. Hey, you know what? I want to compliment you for the work that you did today. I saw that you were doing excellent, you tried something new, you tried out a new tool, and you just really you took some confidence in picking it up. That was super exciting to see. So you compliment or you find something in common. Hey, we were on this last project together. We really enjoyed the project. It turned out great, or it was a little frustrating. But you either do one or two things find something in common or you you compliment, but you lead with curiosity. So that means two ears, one mouth, listen more than you speak.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

100%, sister. I love that. Curiosity lead with curiosity, find something in common or compliment. Very and I love how practical and actionable that is. I don't know if I told you the story, but I was doing some training. We're flying in a bunch of fancy people to one project, and we did this a bunch of times. And part of the workshop, part of the learning experience was required us to connect with the trade workers. We needed to build trust with them because we were getting into the weeds of their work, right? And so, of course, they're like, Oh, and we were all with the general contractor, we're all general contractor employees, so naturally they're like, Oh, hell, here they come, they're gonna make our life miserable. And so, well, I noticed the first batch, my team that I was working with, we did good, but I had spent time talking to the guys and I was out do my thing. The other ones didn't, like, they just went with their clipboards and their video camera and scared the hell out of the guys.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

So I said, Oh, I okay, we so we instituted a practice, and it was I call it visible leadership. And it was the first thing on the agenda. We'll get together, the first task we got to do is go walk the job for 30 minutes, pick up three pieces of trash, and meet somebody you don't already know. Awesome from the trades, not from the company we were working for, just meet somebody from the trades that we don't already know, and then we come back and debrief and then we get into the training. So the first time we debrief, several of the people are like, Man, like I they wouldn't talk to me. They were very short and I couldn't, they were nervous. And I'm like, Okay, duh. Do you understand why? And they're like, No, they just don't want to talk to us. No, it's because anytime somebody with shiny boots and a shiny hard hat comes and talks to them, it's to yell at them.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

So this is abnormal. Now, what did you ask them? Well, I asked them what they were working on, when they were supposed to be done, and if they have their pre-tast safety plan complete. I'm like, okay, no, that's why I see about props. Right. It was just business. And so one of the one of the people in the group, she was like, Jess, like, I know this is gonna sound dumb, but I understand what you're saying. I just don't know how to do that. I've never done that. I was like, oh wow, I missed it. I said, okay, here's the script. What's your name? Why are you

From Spy To Trusted Partner

SPEAKER_00 41:01

in this specific trade? What's different about this project than the last project?

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Awesome. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Just listen. And so they came back, they're like, Oh my god, he's so interesting. He's from wherever, and they traveled over here. They learned about the people, and then the people they saw us out there, hey man, y'all are y'all are out here to make things better, right? Yeah, have an idea about this thing. Y'all want to come check it out? Yeah, and it just so it just it was the humanizing, anyways, kind of like serious, similar to the curiosity, find something in common and start with the compliment. That was my thing, is visible leadership. Ask them what their name is, ask them why they're in the trade that they're in and how this job is different, just to start building that connection so that you're not the spy anymore. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 41:50

I love it. I absolutely love it. And Jesse, I'll tell you, sometimes when I was starting out at the very beginning, I would kind of cheat my way through it. I'd bring donuts or burritos to the morning puddles. Yes, yes. How do I have that conversation?

SPEAKER_00 42:04

You know what? What part of the country are you at?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

I'm Arizona.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Arizona, okay. That but you said burrito. Wait a minute. Oh, yeah. That's uh that's not a Texas thing. Yeah, it's Texas is tacos.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Same idea.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

I was born and raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico, so I'm a burrito lifer.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Yes. Oh my goodness. Okay, so you and I obviously we are advocates for this humanization of construction, connecting with people, this celebrating, amplifying the amazing men and women out there doing the work. So it's just it's so easy to find clients and decision makers that want to make that kind of investment in their people. So, how do you manage the flood of requests you get? Or do you find it kind of difficult to find decision makers that have the kind of foresight necessary to make this type of investment?

SPEAKER_02 43:00

Yes, I absolutely do. And I see the evolution, right? Right now it's all things work workforce development. You have HR, you have we are chief people officer, which that's all well and good, but you need a development officer too. Like, how do you actually put that into place? And folks are afraid oftentimes of HR and coming to HR because they're compliance-based, and HR is there to protect the company. Is hey, I need to grow in my role. How do I do this? And I don't want it to be put on a pick, right? A performance improvement plan.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

I need to have that safe place to work and grow. So, no, I would say as it stands right now, from an investment standpoint, you have the large companies right now that are pouring into the trades. You have BlackRock, Meta, Google, you name it. And it's all skills-based, which is fantastic to draw and attract, which that's fantastic. But when it comes to actually doing the long game work on the people side, the development side, nobody's knocking down my door quite yet, Jesse.

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Girl, I you know, you probably can tell, like the first part of the question, I'm being sarcastic. I've learned this. I've been my little business, I've been operating for almost five years now. And if I use rather, when I use language that is very people centric, I see the lights go off. If I use language that's very production oriented, like labor optimization, oh everybody wants that, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Um, now what I've also learned, I think it was about a year into it, I'm like, you know what? I don't want a client that doesn't care. About their people.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Bingo.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Hell with it. I am going to absolutely be clear that the stuff I do is intended to help the human being on and off the clock. So, yeah, we're going to do some stuff that's going to improve operations and improve production and all of that stuff. That's the easy part. And we're going to heavily focus on how they can apply the same things at home, in their personal relationships, in their community, etc. And if you don't like that, you don't need to call me.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Which again, I'm not flooded, but luckily I've been able to connect with the nice series or nice string of super awesome leaders out there. I wish there were more, not necessarily for business sake, but for the sake of the people out there doing the work.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Yeah, I agree with you entirely when it comes to that. Because people at the end of the day, they want to feel seen, they want to feel valued, and they want to feel heard. And one of the most difficult difficult things to do as a business is to get the individual's voice to have them heard because there's not the logistics of it are just so freaking hard to do. It's like, yes, we believe in you. These are our core values. This is our mission statement. This come this person's walking out to the field. But at the end of the day, their HR person is their foreman. And God willing, they have a foreman who loves people and is a developer, right? But there's not that line of communication. And I think that's as we keep going and the technical advancements keep happening, AI, it'll serve those issues to having that direct contact with the employee embedded in systems.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Oh, yes. Okay, so I'm I'm just gonna throw it out there. There's probably one or two or a dozen amazing forward-thinking leaders that are saying, Man, I like what Brit's bringing. I want some of that. So if somebody was to work, say, hey, Miss Brittany, tell me more. What do we need to do to start working together? What's the um what are the things that they should be looking for, expecting, or be warned about?

SPEAKER_02 46:55

First and foremost, be warned about this. Is it not a quick thing? It takes time, it takes building out a strong infrastructure with the people blueprints so that way it's not just, hey, when this one leader leaves, there goes all of his crew. There goes all your manpower, by the way. It's the infrastructure. You have to believe, like you do on the project side, there is a way to build that solid infrastructure for growth, development, leadership, communication skills. There's a recipe for it, there is money behind it, but you have to invest. And it's not a cheap thing to invest in. And you don't want it to be cheap, you want it to be a solid investment because this is the next generation. This is how we're getting through the next stage of the pain point that we have in the trades right now.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Yeah, 100%. Now you said people blueprint. Is that a thing that you have? I like the

People Blueprints And How To Connect

SPEAKER_00 47:46

words.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Yes, it is. And in fact, I'm just putting out this system that's called the magnified workforce operating system. And that's what I keep talking to you about, which is the people development side of it, which is putting together a full operating people system. Blueprint.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Oh, I you're already perfect language for marketing. And I get it, yeah. We need, but we need it. We can follow a blueprint. Problem is there is no people blueprint, yeah, or there wasn't. Now there is with Ms. Brittany and Magnified Consulting. Yes, I love that so much. Okay, so if somebody's like, oh man, I like it even more, where do we send them so they can get this the Magnified Workforce Operating System, get in touch with you and start building their people blueprint?

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Yes. So I've got a few socials. I have my website, of course, which is magnifiedconsulting.net or the contact form. I'm open just to conversation. And if you just want to talk about where the pain point is, whether it's getting closing new projects, whether it's retention and everything in between, I'm happy to come and just have a con a consultation first and help you devise a plan. And then also on LinkedIn, you can find me at my personal LinkedIn, which is Britney Hackis, or you can head over to my business LinkedIn too, which is Magnified Consulting. And those are the few places that I'm at right now because I'm not a I'm not a marketer.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

That's okay. Yeah, you can expect there's gonna be clips of our conversation, and those are we'll make sure we have the the links in the show notes so people can get a hold of you uh and start taking better care of their people. So there is a closing question, and I'm excited because one, we talked about it at the beginning, right? Your energy, you have a ton of energy, it's super positive. You're clearly extremely accomplished, very knowledgeable in the things you do, and you freaking care about people in construction, and so because of all of those things, the construction whisperer, I'm excited about what your answer to the question is gonna be. So, do I have your permission to ask it?

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Yes, I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Okay, so here is the question, Miss Brittany. What is the promise you are intended to be?

SPEAKER_02 50:10

I think the promise

The Promise To Magnify People

SPEAKER_02 50:11

that I'm intended to be is a magnifier of people. I want to help people see the best in themselves. I want to help people be treated with dignity, I want to help them have honest conversations about where they are, where they're wanting to go. I want to have clear and transparent opportunities for growth, helping people excel and giving them every avenue, giving people information, you name it, but I am I'm meant to be a people magnifier.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Oh, I love it. You know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna be a pain in the butt and just put this out there.

SPEAKER_02 50:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

I think in terms of people magnification and social media, uh-huh, it is an opportunity for you to magnify, amplify the people that you interact with on your posts. So something that's and I think it fits perfectly with the branding. A picture, a little video clip, just celebrating the invisible people that keep construction alive. You're out there doing it, and I applaud you for making this a focus and taking on the challenge because this type of work is it's we absolutely need it, but finding people that are ready for it is difficult, so it can be a lonely, quiet road. And so I applaud you for taking that path, and I'm super glad that we've connected. Did you have fun?

SPEAKER_02 51:33

Oh, I had a blast, Jesse. I'm so sad that it's already over. I was so nervous to begin with, but now it's like, oh man, it's already over. Dang it. They went by quick.