"Nobody Wants Your Elevator Pitch": Neel Zbinden on Field Marketing, Integrity, and Ending the War Between Sales, Ops, and Brand

Poor Leadership Loses Great People

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm telling you, there are great people on teams that are leaving jobs or getting even fired or let go that don't deserve to be because of poor leadership. So I'm really sorry, but a big problem is way up there.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

What is going on, LM family? And I, you know what? I'm just gonna brag whether you like it or not. This is, I don't know, the third or fourth time now that I'm interviewing somebody, and it's the very first time we've ever had a conversation. And I've been following her on LinkedIn for a minute now because just the energy, the things that she's involved with, she's moving and shaking and doing all kinds of great things. And we finally got to get together, and I'm gonna get to know her right along with y'all. And she is like a straight-up launcher, she's got massive energy, and she's been launching a bunch of things, one of which is the Z Collab Group. Which I think y'all are gonna get some, maybe we'll get some, steal some nuggets from her. Because what she does is she helps connect sales, marketing, brand, and operations, which is if you know, you know, that is not easy work. She's also the co-founder and president of the con Contractors, Closers, and Connections of Fort Worth. So I'm assuming there's some mad networking skills and really appreciation for what it is to connect people and grow amazing things together. And she's got 30 years in the restaurant industry. I met her through the construction industry. So we're definitely gonna explore that. But if this is the first time you're here listening to the Learnings and Missteps podcast, I gotta tell you what to expect. Here's the deal you get a front row seat to amazing human beings, the stories behind their life's experience and how they're sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it. And here's the extra thing they are amazing just like you are. So take some notes and you can absolutely apply them to your life. I am Jesse, your selfish servant, and we're about to get to know Miss Zeal Zbinden, because I forgot to say your name earlier.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

So, Miss Neil, how I am awesome, I'm so good. I'm happy to be talking to you. Never done it.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

So oh my goodness, likewise. And so you're in the DFW, Fort Worth, I'm thinking specifically.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

I'm in DFW. I was born and raised in Dallas, and I'm in Alito living, and I claim Fort Worth because I love Fort Worth, and I gotta finish. I got one more in school, two

Meeting Neel And DFW Roots

SPEAKER_01 2:50

have graduated, and I gotta hang in here. It's tough. We have a lot of construction, and it's way worse than most of the Metroplex. Believe me, what's going on out here is wild. It's amazing, but it's horrible for us. So yeah, I'm in Alito, but Fort Worth with my organization, so I just like to claim Fort Worth.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

I love it. They might not allow it.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

So there might be a limit of years that you have before you can claim Fort Worth.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

They're pretty poor. Before you can officially claim So I'm from San Antonio, born and raised. I got a lot of business, and I'm in actually, I'm gonna be in DFW next week doing some training at Texo. I don't understand the difference between Dallas and Fort Worth, because in my brain, it's all just one thing. So what is the difference? Well, without you know, hopefully we won't get canceled for this, but what's the difference?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Well, I feel like I can take authority. So, first of all, I have family in San Antonio and they're all still there. There's the Bendons, so you'll find them around. And so I famously I went to Ole Miss after I failed out of Texas Tech. So let's start there. I went out of high school. Okay. We graduated, and a bunch of us fools went straight to Texas Tech in the first semester of summer school, and I did a lot of not going to summer school. So I failed out and came home, and then I transferred to Ole Miss. And when someone from Dallas and Tech that I knew said, Hey, we have this Fort Worth girl coming up to Ole Miss. You gotta introduce her to people. And I said something like Fort Worth, Dallas, whatever, it's the same. And they're like, What? No, it's not. And it was it's like I offended somebody terribly. Now that I'm here, I'm like, I'm always gonna love Dallas, just like I love the Dallas Cowboys, and people may shame me for that. But I'm always gonna love Dallas. I know it like the back of my hand. I can get over, you know, all over the place, up to Frisco and McKinney and down to South Dallas and whatever. Oakliffe. But I got out here and I'm kind of confused. But Fort Worth is the coolest mix. I lived in Austin for four and a half, five years, opening uh Conoroso restaurants out there. And I feel like my daughter said it best that Fort Worth's almost like the best mix we've seen of all the towns. You have the city, uh, and you but you have you do have the cowboy vibe, and it's more how you doing, and it's probably a little more similar to San Antonio a bit. So it's just a it's it's fast, but it's still a little slower. Dallas is just it's just going and it's just so much. I mean, so there's traffic everywhere, so you can't even blame Dallas anymore. I'm in more traffic in Alino and there's some little dot on the map. So so it's all right. I love it. I love it. It's pretty cool. I'll say that. It's a cool place.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

I like it.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

10 4. There you go. So no hate, it's just a different pace. And for me, like I said, I come in every probably I'm down that way once a month, it seems like for the past two years. Um, and I'm in and out, right? So I it's amazing. Man, you're missing out.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

You need to cut out a few days somehow. There's so much cool to do.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

We will, we will in the future for sure. Um, now, you know, in the intro I talked about you being in the restaurant

Leaving Restaurants After COVID

SPEAKER_00 6:10

industry for 30 years, and you just mentioned in Austin you were doing restaurant stuff, and now you're in construction. So I'm curious, what is the work or the experience in the restaurant industry? What are some of the similarities that made construction an easy transition for you?

SPEAKER_01 6:28

I didn't know that. The person who was reaching out to me, because I basically COVID hit on the 14th, all the restaurants shut down. I was running this restaurant, and within two days of that, I was wearing the same gloves being told to wear, and I was running out car service to curbside. I went from running a place to and I was at kids and I was newly divorced, and I was not no, I'm like, are we supposed to be wearing these gloves every person credit card we're touching? And just and I was real confused, and it only took me two weeks to say eight no to all this. And so I quit the whole business on April 1st, and it was not an April Fool's joke. I didn't know what I was gonna do, didn't know what I was gonna do. Came home in July and I posted on Facebook, hey, I'm studying real estate. I don't know why all of us from the restaurant business, when we want to get out, we it's like a natural desire to think we want to go into real estate. So I'm taking the classes online, and I just say, hey, I'm newly single mom, and everyone, I have this big network from the restaurant business because I was in DFW really the whole time until those last few years in Austin. And bar business at nightclubs. I mean, I used to bartend at in Addison at Times Square and Carsons and all these things. And so I didn't know. This guy reached out and said, Hey, I have a sales or marketing position. I think you'd be great. You should interview. And it was with a restoration company. And I'm like, why is in construction? What? And but I went, long story short, I interviewed, I got hired in the marketing. I was the one who said, You really should start calling me. Because once I'm working, I'm like, what am I doing? I had I say I figured it out all by trial and error. I started going, I started going to organizational events, and but it naturally said so. What I know now is that it's service. It's that if you have great service industry people, I would highly encourage everybody in the construction and even commercial real estate industry to look at those people because they're looking to get out of that. I want people to know, and I haven't even gotten there yet, but that's something I want to do is like I want people to know in that business, you do have. I cried once at that first job I took in the construction industry. I had never spent a holiday with my family. I was always in the restaurant or the club or the whatever, because you don't take off for those holidays.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Right, they're open for everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

So you're serving everyone else. And I always didn't, of course, I wanted to be there because I want to make sure my place is running properly, because if I'm the GM or, you know, so anyways, so I probably got off course, but service-hearted people make sense for sales positions, marketing positions, because they love people, they love helping. And so people were trying to tell me to, you know, what's your elevator pitch? What's your three-minute this? And I'm like, I don't know. And now I think everyone's starting to get it. It's been about almost seven years, but I was just like, I mean, nobody wants your elevator pitch, really. And also and who should all have the same pitch? That's boring. I mean, if we're all running around saying the same thing, like because I sell a burger because I'm like, this burger's the best burger on our menu. This is so I may have a different reason than my colleague might think that the company's great because he's on roofs every day and maybe he wants to talk about that. Or maybe it depends on the person you're talking to of what you should be telling them. So I just think anyway, so that's how it translates. I think I've always had pride in what I did if I was serving a drink or food. I don't want to serve not great, I don't want to cuss. I will I would if I wasn't on here being professional that I am. But I don't want to serve I don't want to serve not great food or drinks. And if I make a mistake, I want to fix it. You know, oh no, I am gonna fix it, you know. So that's who I am right now today, even in my new business, and it's who I have been at Weather Shield and at Mooring. It's who I am, is just to get out there and be behind a brand, and I can't work with somebody I'm not behind. And I, you know, so there's where I'm at on that. So I see now how I fit in, but I didn't know how I was gonna fit in really at the beginning. I didn't know at all.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

We're gonna do the LM family member shout out first, and so this one goes out to my brother Jeff Riley. He says, I remember the first time I read this book. The name of the book is Leadership and Self-Deception. The self-reflection it required me made me uncomfortable and really helped me grow. I read it again with a new perspective, having worked on myself, and I picked up more nuggets of wisdom. Now, going through this book my third time and listening to others chime in with their thoughts, this book has now officially become the gift that keeps on giving. And so, Jeff, one, thank you for taking the time for sharing that. And folks out there in the omniverse, Jeff is a part of the he's a newly minted member of the Construction Leadership Lab. And one of the books that one of the elements of that community is we're doing a book study. And the book that we're studying right now is Leadership and Self-Deception. I super recommend it. But one, thank you, Jeff, for joining the community, two for leaving that comment. It's super, super meaningful to me. And folks, you already know I love attention. So if you leave a comment, you get stars, you do the share, all the things, I will super appreciate it. And it gives me an excuse to shout you out in a future episode. Yeah. No, well, what uh thank you, Neil. What I think is the one the writer-downer for the LM family member is transferable skills, right? You spent

Service Skills That Transfer Anywhere

SPEAKER_00 12:30

a bunch of time in the restaurant industry, and I know because you you sent me some intel before we started, you worked at all positions, like all levels of the restaurant industry.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

I started handing out beer buckets on Upper Greenville at Joe Willie's back in the day when I did summer school at Lake Highlands, and my friend drove. I wasn't even 16 yet, so she would drive and I would ring people up and take the beer buckets out. And that's and I never meant to stay in the restaurant business. I wanted to be a psychologist. I wanted to work with kids because I wanted to help, I wanted to help where I wished I had been helped. And so that's what I thought I was gonna do. That's why I say my life never went in a straight line ever.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Well, you know, I don't know. I have yet to meet anybody whose life has been or their path to success has been a straight line. They've all been twisty attorney, curvy, just nuts. But I think the other thing that I want folks to to like latch on to is the service idea, right? In the restaurant industry, not everybody you though had discovered I care about people's experience. I want to provide the best experience, and if they're not having a great experience, I'm gonna do what it takes to make it which that mindset and approach is a hundred percent transferable. I mean, really, to any industry. And I think more, I think it's probably more pronounced and more appreciated or more absent in constructions.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

I don't think people got it when I I was like, I mean, I kept telling my people, I'm like, hey, let me help you. Let me and they're saying, well, aren't you gonna be mad if you're facilitating business and you're not getting a commission? And I'm like, not really, because I'm proving myself and I just want to help y'all, and I see a way, and I'm getting paid what I ex accepted as a salary. I'm good. Let's just do this. Yeah, and down the line, it would start to open. And then we start to say, should we have KPIs? How do you measure KPIs in field marketing? I mean, it's that's a toughie. And but it does all it translates, you know, it's about people and service and serving your team and being a part of a bigger picture. If you're in a restaurant that's because I I only worked, even when I did it was snuffers, it was snookies, they're all great popular restaurants. And then I moved into more like Connie Rosso and Suzekis, they're still, you know, very popular restaurants and they're great restaurants. And if you're passionate about it, I mean, that's the best way to be. Believe in it, what you're doing, you know? And so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yeah, so what I'm picking up on is you have a non-traditional approach to doing a job that is extremely valuable, and people kind of, especially when you came to construction, are kind of like, wait a minute, why are you doing that? That's not how they do it. Which I think is ultra valuable. And another, I'll say, characteristic that I see in very successful people. And when I say successful, I mean in people really value their presence and their contribution, not necessarily like the dollars and all that. That's easy. Um but you mentioned you use the word field marketing.

Field Marketing As The Extra Mile

SPEAKER_01 15:45

What is that? I am so glad you asked that question. Because nobody understands it. I swear everyone still doesn't. They're like, what is going on here? We don't want to spend money for this. And yes, you do. You do want to spend money for this. I promise. If you get the right person, I'll help you find the right person. I'll take all those people I knew in the restaurant business that I'll be like, get over here. I got something for you. But okay, get me back to the question.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

You said Field marketing, what is it?

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Basically, I got hired at Mooring as a marketing manager. And but there's this girl in the position of director of marketing who's a classically trained, you know, graduate study this in college. I did not.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

I studied a lot in college, a lot of different things. But I was a natural, definitely at field marketing. So I'm out there, right? I'm like, hey, this swag doesn't work. What are we doing with these squeezy things nobody wants? They're dogs eating them. Why are we not, why are we not ironing our tablecloths at a golf tournament and looking dumb like that? You know, stuff like that. Why are we letting people take all of our stuff out of our marketing closet? And then the VP of sales is like, why is our budget all gone and all our stuff's gone? And where's the ROI? So it's just I'm seeing all of these things, and that's PL marketing is getting out there correctly. And I learned in trial and error, I didn't know what I was doing. I was a part of 13 organizations my first three years. I was running them and two of them, I mean, some in Houston and Austin, and helping BDs in our new locations doing those. And it was wild. So I learned that way, the fire hose way. And I finally went back and was like, we need to change my title because I'm not. First of all, we were killing forests back when I started six or seven years ago because paper, we were like handing out at meetings this stuff. I'm like, all of this. We're what are we doing? And now we're so digital, it's crazy and it's just happening faster every day. But I'm not, I was like, I'm not that guy, y'all. You can't be calling me the marketing manager because I can't do what she's doing back there. I can't build our website out. I'm learning now, but it's I couldn't do that. And so we changed it because I said, I guess it's field marketing. I, you know, I said it's I'm out in the field. And so to me, it is, because it's whether I'm going to a lunch with my sales guy because he has a female potential client and it would feel a little more comfortable if I went along for her sake and for his sake, maybe. Or if it's that my sales guy who I helped him get us a job, like we finally got this client and we kind of had a foul up. Maybe I fix that. I'm uh that's what I want. Is I want to be the one who helps make it all okay, you know, or who helps plan the fun thing to do for the clients, or what sponsorship should we do? Is this making sense? Are we losing dollars? Are we wasting our time? All of it. But it's more about that than it is the tech side. I'm starting, of course, to try to learn about more about AI because it's blowing my mind already. Things people are showing me. I'm like, what is happening? I just got on chat GPC. I was mad at my son three years ago. He says, Hey, can you approve chat GPC? And I was like, Isn't that a isn't that a plagiarism thing? And he's like, No, I want it for math. And I said, So you're cheating. So you want me to get you an apple to cheat? And then only last year did I discover my partner. Well, I won't give people away, but people are like, oh no, chat GPT, tell it to make you not sound rude.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Say this and do that.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

And I was like, Oh, y'all are doing this. So anyway, I mean, it's funny the things that I am learning how to do. And with Courtney and CCC, we've had to learn the hard way that if you have a partner in a business or whatever your organization, and we each have talents that are totally different, and it's so great. But when one of us is out, which unfortunately each of us had big things happen this year, and one of us was out at a time, we learned that both people need to know what to do. That the other person because it's real tough when you're like, oh crap, I need the password to this, and I can't get to this person, and for a while. So anyway.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Ouch.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I love it. I love it. Okay, so here's my summary. And if I'm wrong, just slap me. Field marketing is the high contact sport in marketing, brand building, and customer relations.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

It's that sounds. You know, you just made me think of it, it was probably a year ago that I thought, and I said to somebody I was about to be training, and I said, field marketing, field marketing is the extra mile. It's going a little bit above what you just the bare minimum. It's just actually taking the notes in the CRM and remembering that somebody had a loss in their family, or they had a grandchild, or a graduate, or that we went by last time and we took them this, so we're not gonna take the same thing, or whatever it is, but that you actually genuinely care and that someone is looking after those relationships because your guys in sales have to go back out and start doing other jobs. They gotta go do whatever they're doing. And somebody needs to make sure that we're not leaving Jesse and just only caring when Jesse calls us. What if he doesn't call us back? Because the point is, if I was in front of him because I sucked by for the company's behalf or my sales guy's behalf, and I said hey, and brought Jesse some donuts, and then tomorrow he has some happen he's not gonna forget again.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yes. Yes. Oh, I love the extra mile. It and it's coming across as it's the intimate, it's a more intimate connection. And so with that, not everybody can do it. Because I've had people, I'm sure you've had it too, where somebody from either sales or marketing, they're making contact. But it's like icky.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

It happens to me all the time. It I almost want to make an extra part time sales. Side hustle of responding to them and telling them how terrible it is that this is I'm serious. When I get like the fourth message that's like, hey, I just want to bump this to the top of your inbox and make sure I'm like, I clearly did not miss anything. I just literally don't have time for the fact that you have did not read anything about what I actually do. And paying more attention to what people actually do and what they what makes them tick and what they care about and how you can connect them to someone else that's right. That's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Oh man, I love it. Okay. So clearly you've got a lot of experience. When I started my business over four and a half years ago, I said, you know what? The skill I need to learn is marketing. And I said, I'm not gonna pay anybody for that. And so then I started researching, and then I was like, holy moly, this is massive. It's way there's a whole lot of layers and complexity, and then I got you know resources that help me, blah, blah, blah. Well, it helped me understand some of the problems that I get to see within departments, within construction firms, and other businesses. So I'm curious, based on your experience, what is it that disconnects brand, sales, marketing, and operations? Because those functions, I'm gonna say every business has it, whether they're doing it on purpose or not, it's a different question. But often, more often than not, they're like not more than they're not even just disconnected, a lot of times they're battling each other. And so think contributes to that, and how what are some things people can do to smooth that crap out?

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Oh man, that it is a real problem. And it's what my job is now. I made this my job. And it's already hard, but in the best way, because it's why I'm here. But that is the problem, is like there's a lot of is disalignment the proper word, but it's like, first of all, I think it's really important that the guys up here are good. Okay. If you start with poor leadership, then it's just all gonna fall down. And so where I'm at right now is when people are like, well, who will you work with? And I start with, well, I won't work with anyone who lies, cheats, or steals, number one. Because if and also who's just, I mean, it's like I've watched people who are like, oh, you know, my best friend who was my college buddy is now gonna get all this, but these guys on my team don't get it. But I'm mad at them because they're not doing their job, but I'm also taking advantage, and I'm like, well, okay, I can't help you there. I can't fix that. So I think it's really vital for that. But if you have great leaders, which fortunately I'm working with, the hard part is what I'm doing is coming. You gotta dig way deeper. You gotta know your people. Just like I said with the elevator pitch, is everyone's not the same. Everyone doesn't love to be put in those little role-playing situations. I mean, you know, I don't think people should be coddled either. Don't get me wrong, but I think it's right to get people in the right seats. And I think it's right to say, what do you love? What do you not love? What is making because people in this industry tend to get thrown in jobs and given a lot of hats to wear, and they're doing too many things and they're frustrated. And it's like finding out, like, actually doing your reviews, man. And I think they should be quarterly. I don't think it should be six months or a year. I think that some level of leadership should be doing reviews, and they are saying both ways. What are you doing and not doing? And also to the company or the leader, what are you doing and not doing? It's EOS, is what it is. There's a lot of disengagement between teams. So I'm trying to help that. I don't even know

Aligning Sales Marketing Ops With Leadership

SPEAKER_01 25:50

what it is, Jesse, yet. I mean, it's like I'm trying to bring this strategy. It's working. I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to reveal people's personal stuff that the client I'm working with, but it is working. I'm basically I've spent the last six weeks. That's how long I've been working with them, is getting to know each person. I'm only focused on the sales and marketing team and the ownership and leadership. I'm getting to even know even the CEO. I'm, I mean, every person, I'm asking them various questions throughout the weeks. I'm having them answer them to me. We're having one-on-ones. I implemented CRM. It's very important. But also, I mean, it's just a lot of things like let's go there, CRM. A lot of companies push these terrible CRMs that are frustrating. I didn't use CRM before this industry. We didn't, I mean, now it's like open table and stuff, but we didn't really have CRM in the restaurant business. So I came over here and I was on the front end of the CRM coming into the company I was in. I watched it be implemented, totally made sense to me. I still use that same CRM for myself to this day. Easy. And I would watch the push back and be like, why are y'all pushing back? And eventually we got it to work and everyone did it because it is so easy. It's so easy. Then I have seen other platforms being pushed down everyone's throat on top of what that's a problem too. I'm trying to help people by I'm I want anyone listening to hear this right now. Bogging your sales, especially sales and your marketing team down with all, hey, I want you to write a business plan for this week, and then I want you to enter things into CRM. And then at the end of the week, I want you to give me a weekly wrap-up, and then we're gonna talk about it in the Monday morning meeting. And you're like, holy crud, there's so much pressure. And really, how about just a good, easy CRM? And there we're all good, and everyone's stuff is there, and we have parameters around it. So a lot of that is just accountability and leadership, is where all of the, I'm telling you, there are great people on Teams that are leaving jobs or getting even fired or let go that don't deserve to be because of poor leadership. So I'm really sorry, but a big problem is way up there.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yes, I agree a hundred percent. At first, I want to clarify CRM, I think it stands for customer relationship management system.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Is that I think so. I say client relationship management. So that's I but I feel but to me, that's what it is. You can add pipelines like the boss guy might want to have other pipelines or his estimating or whatever departments, you can add all of those things. But essentially, to me, I'm like at the very base, your sales and marketing people and any jobs that are coming in through the business some other way all need to go into here so that if so-and-so was gone tomorrow, that I can carry on until we find somebody else into that place. And we should always be keeping that updated and you should want to. To me, it's just so helpful to go back and be like, oh, I already did that, or here's what they like to do, or did my guy call them like he was supposed to? It's also easy. It really is. It's simple. Yeah, we make it too much.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

And also, I mean, who's the point of contact with that firm, right? Like, who do we talk to? Who do we who likes us and who do we talk about?

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Well, because it's a mistake to walk in and not know. I mean, you should know who's the right person. Put it in the system so that you don't do all that work the second time around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

So totally. Now, your point about leadership, I a hundred percent agree, right? And also, I want to reinforce what you said. You do not want to work with low integrity people. If they're lying, cheating, stealing, stay the hell.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

I don't want to do with it, and I can't fix it.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Leadership, like low integrity leaders, there's not a lot you can do to fix that.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Yeah, so I actually met with some potential clients two days ago, and it was great. It was so cool. I mean, it it I couldn't ask for a better. I don't even get nervous. Um I was raised with a man who was very from work, he came from nothing and worked his way up and was very successful and very kind. And I don't I don't really feel in I like I get nervous about stuff, but I don't really feel intimidated. So no matter who they were, it wouldn't matter. But they were great. They were so cool. We totally just started talking how we talk, you know, we didn't have to be putting on any fronts. And these are owners and they know what they're doing. And then we ended up going to lunch and then hanging out further. And it's I love that I can tell immediately that I would like to work with these people. If there's an opportunity there, I'd like to help them. And I think I see it, right? And but yeah, if there's and I tell them directly, every person I've spoken to so far, I say that if you lie to you, or Cecil, I'm out and I I can't fix those things. So not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Well, and I love that you're super clear about who you won't work with, because that when I started my business, I was like, whoever, I'm just give me money. Yeah, and then I found out, oh no, this there's a particular set of behaviors that I do not need to work with because it's they're just wasting their money, it's not gonna stick. I can't help them because they got some integrity issues right now, and on the and I love that you're doing this field marketing and helping people with brand sales, marketing up, like connecting, breaking down the walls between all of them. Because I remember back as an installer, I came up as a plumber. Okay, and we would get projects with horrible clients, like that just treat general contractors that just they couldn't plan worth a damn, they treated us like garbage. It was a freaking disaster. No matter how well we prepared, right? It didn't matter. They just treated people like trash. And I remember as I elevated in my career having a conversation with one of our, well, say, sales, right? He was part of his responsibility was sales, and he was part of his right, exactly. And he my issue was like you're complaining about our profitability on a project. But our profitability, our our production is largely contingent on the quality of our people. Yes, you're selling to ding dongs to say you hit your quota and you're selling and saying that we can't perform, and that's not true because we have these other clients that we do really well with, perform well, have a good time, the whole thing. And so in my head, there's an integ there's a disconnect. His and his response to me was operations is not my problem. I'm responsible for sales. I and then marketing was like, wait a minute, we got a problem here because Jesse's out there moving his mouth and talking back and raising hell with this GC. Now we're he's affecting the brand. And I'm like, and so it was just like it was a cascading problem. What is that? Am I the no sir?

SPEAKER_01 32:52

That I I have experienced it firsthand. It is wild work, but it is true. It's like I've had someone literally tell me, and this is a person that is in charge, and tells me, Oh, well, the train's just chugging down the tracks. I'm not driving the train, I'm just watching it. And I'm like, okay, well, you should take the wheel, that is what you should be doing right now. And I ended up to be correct in what I was trying to speak to in the first place, um, in the long run, and it's irony to me, but it gives me the confidence to do what I'm doing because I do see these things. And as a young person growing up, I was always kind of told to hush a bit and to not, you know, hey, don't whatever. And so I kind of learned that to not ruffle feathers and all of that. And now I'm ruffling feathers because I learned through watching, you know, through seeing things happening. And that's how I learned that I want to work with people who have integrity who, because I watched it happen and I tried to speak up, and nobody ever shamed me or anything, but nobody wanted to listen when I would say, Hey, what are you doing? You're you should, and it's like, no, whatever. I'm gonna keep doing it. And so that's why I decided to go on my own because I stepped back. I lost my brother in February, and I stepped back because I just needed to focus on that. And when I had to go back to work, I was like, I don't want to go interview because I'm tired of people telling me what I know how to do to help them. And they're like, oh no, don't tell me that. And no, do you just go to this thing at this? You, but no, you can't go to this thing where you're trying to tell me that we should be where I really know we're gonna get, you know. So I'm like, I felt like I was just had my hands tied. And so now, and we and it's true. The CEO of the company I'm working with right now. I mean, I'm fully open with him and we are making strides. And I told him, I'm like, it's because you can't tell people when you're in the business, but when you hire me to come in and fix the business, you're listening because he's paying me to do it. And the truth is now I can tell you what's up and what and he wants to receive it. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

If you don't want to receive the answers, oh so so tell me, Neil, because I get this. I'm imagining you get the same thing that I get. You go in there, you start getting involved, and you start pointing things out, and the decision makers are listening and taking what you have to to heart and taking action. And then the other people are like, Man, I've been telling that dummy forever. Do you have that situation?

SPEAKER_01 35:25

It's so funny. I did find something out recently, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I totally said that. You know, I'm like, I said that. It doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't affect me. It was affecting me, but I'm just like, I mean, the things people do to themselves, shoot themselves in the foot. I'm like, I don't know how you think you're running a business because this ain't working. It's like it's smoke and mirrors or something, but it's not really working.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

I so, so love that. Because I similarly, I go consulting, coaching, training, and we get into problem solving hairy stuff. A lot of times, you know, we'll just I'll make a recommendation, and then somebody on the team will be like, I've been telling her that forever. Dude, or I've been telling my guys this same thing, and they still now all of a sudden Jesse comes in and everybody wants to do it.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

I had the other day someone told me I asked a question. I said, Are there because I was talking about the sales and marketing people, they know that people that they're meeting at events or that they're touching on as clients. And I said, But what about those leads that are coming in through the business? I said, Is anybody responsible for getting those over to a CRM or anything like that? And it was like a couple people were like, Well, we've talked about it. I mean, we've said, we've said we'll do that, but and I'm like, okay, well, we're gonna do it. Here's the deal. I'm gonna make us do that. But yeah, people, I know the feeling, and I felt the same way. I've told these people this and they didn't listen to me and now look at you.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

I was trying to help you. Come on, I'm oh, I love that. I love that so much, especially in that space. You know, I actually, full confession here, I had zero appreciation for people in sales and marketing before I started my business. Part of it, I think they it's right, they were very like, oh, you can't say that, and you said the wrong words, and you gotta say it this way. And like, man, get out of here. Number one. Number two, I didn't understand what they did. Now that I have my business just over four years now, I'm like, oh my god, I should have been nicer to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Okay, well, there's another key thing. Being humble is very important, you know, and to being a leader. It's not into being successful, but into being a leader, a servant leader, is also to be humble and to say, I don't know everything. I didn't know everything, and I'm still learning everything.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

100%. But it's really important work, and it can be magical when it all starts like falling into place. And so I applaud you for even taking on the challenge because it's kind of a gray area, and there's a lot of it is a gray area area protecting their corner because of whatever reason, right? So there's some defensiveness and and all the things, especially the ROI around doing the thing. Yeah, you can't if I were to measure on a weekly basis how valuable my marketing efforts and advertising efforts were, it would be zero, and the data would suggest stop doing that stuff. But if I zoom out and look at it quarterly and annually, it's absolutely imperative that I continue doing that.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

It's also strategy around it. That's the problem, is people are wasting, they're mad because they're like these guys I met with the other day. They were really frustrated. They're like, we brought in the 150,000 a year guy to come say he would have all this and he got no business and blah blah. And it's like, well, you really got to find the right person, number one. Also, like you just I want to back up because you said something about sort of people hold on to stuff. That's another problem that I have had to work through, is it's really hard for all of us to kind of let something go or to delegate it, especially when you're afraid it might not be done as well as I do it, uh, or whatever, or but it's important that you learn how to do it because you can't do everything. You can't do anything well if you're doing everything, right? So it's just you have to let it go. You have to be able to not own everything. And the other piece is for me, I can't believe I just said the other piece. My God, I we made fun of that 10 years ago in the restaurant business when people started saying that and I just said it. But the other part that's really big to me that I believe in, and this is where I'm at now, is that if you're walking into the room wherever that may be, and you're saying, What is in it for me, then you're losing everything. Because if you go into the room and you say, What can I bring into this room? How can I connect somebody? How

Training Delegation And Give First Networking

SPEAKER_01 40:10

can I meet somebody? How can I show somebody something? Then I'm like, there's where it's at. It's all gonna come back. If you focus that way instead of, oh my God, I gotta get 5 million by the end of the year, I gotta have if you're making your people and stressing them out, you tell me how many meetings you came out of that event from. I want 20 things in your. I mean, it's just that you can't do that. You gotta let everybody have their own strategy and way, have some room because they are working off of commissions, most of them. So give them some room to be unique and help them be unique and for God's sakes, in this industry, train some people. The way everyone trains in this industry is an absolute joke. Isn't it? Does anyone out there feel trained at their company? I want to hear about your company that's trained you well, and we should give them accolades somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

1000% agree because I do training in our industry, right? And specifically for like four men and superintendent, like out executing the work. And the the I love it. It's not great. It's bad for the industry, but it's kind of great for me. When I'm doing training, it don't matter what part of the country I'm in, I will always hear I've been in the industry 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, and this is the first time I've ever gotten any kind of training. And here's the nugget for business people that are operating construction businesses. It is a retention strategy. They these people are not. Because they're investing in me and training me. Wherever else I work, they didn't care. They just told me to get better and that I suck. And so, yeah, we do a miserable job. Now, I'm luckily now similar to you. I've got some really my clients are very forward-thinking, long-term focused folks that want to invest in their people. That's important. And massive investments. I'm training well, well, um, you're familiar with Dynaton up in DFW. We had we had a training program all over a single one. I like those through the training. And we need to recognize those people. So I'm wondering is the contractors, closers, and connections of Fort Worth a place that those type of leaders could be celebrated?

SPEAKER_01 42:30

The leaders that are actually leading well. Absolutely. That's something we have the I that's where I golly, yes. I mean, everything Courtney and I are doing with CCC, everything with what I do with women, with all of it is yeah, we want to honor the people who are leading well, leading with servant hearts. Um, there was a gentleman at our CC event. I'll just say it's with Kester Construction. They're a sponsor. I've been pronouncing it coaster for the last two events because yeah. I but that is because I always announce the sponsors. And so I'm like, well, coaster. And I go introduce myself to him, and he says, Oh, it's Kester. Anyway, he is a platinum sponsor, so he would get to speak, and he says, No, I don't want to speak. I our company really is here for the charity. We are we want to be a part of this because y'all give back. So I don't need the spotlight. Let's go ahead to them. And I'm like, heck yeah, man. And I'm having coffee with him because he's a great guy, and just what it's all about. But yes, people who are leading like that and giving their teams the tools. I have seen trainings where I'm like, why are the estimators and the girls answering the phone and me and these sales guys all in the same training room? What are we doing here? And then none of us get cohesive. We're all so confused. I mean, I've seen the craziest stuff, and then they're like, get out and go sell. Okay, thanks guys. That was great. After all, let's do that.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

You have been blessed and themed. Yep. Oh my god. You know, I did this one time and I don't recommend it, but I did I had some regional responsibility and the VPs of the region were complaining about people going to training and then coming back and not being like experts at the thing, right? And so I had to report out to you know to the to everybody, and on my little report out, I started it with uh salsa no bachata, basic bachata step. And so I said, Everybody stand up, and this is how you do bachata one, two, three, five, six, seven, and we got walked. I like your training. I like that. Oh, when I come to your training, I I do it all the time. And so I had all these VPs, not all of them, a couple of them were like, what the hell is this? So we did the basic, I played some music, we you know, kind of had fun. Okay, y'all got it? Yeah, okay. And then I did my presentation, you know, my report out on whatever KPIs and crap. And then at the end I called on one person and said, Okay, you have been trained on the bot basic step of bachata. I need you to stand up and retrain everybody again. And they're like, he was like, What what do you mean? I'd I would have freaked out. I said, What do you mean? You're not an expert after you just spent after you've been trained, and they all got it.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

They're like, oh okay. I get it. That's so true, right? That's a great point because that's how it feels. It's I had so many apps. This is not even a joke, actually. I downloaded so many apps and stuff the first week of a training that my email, my own email, everything shut down. I don't know. My the I don't know what happened. It was a whole crazy deal. But I lost everything in my phone while I was downloading the million apps that we didn't even use half of them out four weeks in. I'm like, why do we have this and this? Like, oh, well, I don't we don't really use it. Why do we do that? Like, why do we why are we wasting time, people? You know, that's another problem. We waste a lot of time on BS. Let's get out there and sell, you know, let's go build relationships, let's get in the right places, and let's quit sitting here uh bullshitting about stuff, right? I mean, and making me do busy work like a teacher would do. Just let's do what we're supposed to do. We're grown adults. Can we get back to that?

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Yes. Yeah, totally. There is no app to help you communicate better. That technology is right here in your ears and your mouth. And if you use your ears more, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

You just things, you should not be in sales or market field marketing, right?

SPEAKER_00 47:29

All right, so Neil, I absolutely appreciate your energy and your courage to have this damn uh conversation with me after we've never even met before. Like had a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 47:41

I had a basic anxiety attack when I started at Mooring and BOMA, Dallas, had just opened up and it was the very first thing I went to. I didn't know a single person. And that very first time, they're like, oh, you're with Mooring. You guys are gonna be speaking at the next one. And I was like, excuse me. And anyway, I've obviously grown over time, but I I mean I still get really my heart pounds a lot. So it's impressive that I can sit here with you today. I probably would have fallen off my chair, you know, six years ago having heart palpitations.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

That's hilarious. It's hilarious, and I feel you. Now, here's the something that that I'm curious about because you do have massive energy. I believe, or I'm going to assume, that some measure of that energy is coming from precisely where you are right now in terms of launching your business, getting clear about only working with people with integrity, a combination of all the struggles and trial tribulations that you've overcome to get to this point. Wrong in kind of getting that read?

SPEAKER_01 48:48

I am definitely, it's wild, but I so I'm 52, and I say that like when I turned 50, I started feeling away, but there's a lot of people that are like, oh, my life's over, I'm 50, I'm whatever. I, because of everything that's happened to me, and especially in the last few years, like the last six or seven years, but even especially the last three years, have been some of the hardest years of my life. But I have to say, because this is what we're called to do, or what I'm called to do, is I'm here because of my faith and because of the guy up there. He's always been a part of me. It doesn't matter if I'm at church or where I am, it's just a part of my life. And I wondered at points why what I was doing here. And I pushed through in those times, and I was blessed by Weathershield tremendously. I have to say that. The I mean, anyway, I won't go into that, but I was blessed and they're amazing. And just CCC came in middle of the worst time. And I don't even know if Chris Meyer knows that yet, but if he ever sees this as a founder, I was the worst time of my life. And when they told me that they wanted me and Courtney to be co-founders and presidents, I thought I was on a call to be a leadership team member. And it blew me away. But on the inside, I was like, what? Because I was broken. And I remember conversations with Chris Meyer calling to get to know me and just want to know why I wanted to be involved and stuff. And he said, I just want to make sure, because there have been chapters that, you know, tried to get going. And he said, sometimes when the going gets tough, the tough get going. And I said, Well, not me, because there's nothing that could break me more than anything that I've ever been through. And I don't do something if I'm not all in. That's a big thing. I tell my kids it. I tell everyone, but I'm like all in or all out. I'm learning to say no to things. I'm learning to step away if it's not serving the business or myself or, but anyway, yeah, I'm at my best point because now I see where I'm being directed. I always I say this. I always was like, why God? Why is this happening? And I always push through. I've always elevated. I never meant to stay in the restaurant business. It happened. So I always elevated and I've always elevated in this industry. But things have happened where I'm like, why, why? I can't. I literally can't keep, I can't. And now I say, What? What is it? What are you showing me? And I can shut out all the noise and all the insecurity. I'm there now. I have arrived past all of the, hey, Neil, shh, don't bother people with your problems. Just smile and stand up straight and just help other people. And I still want to help other people, but I'm done not speaking up because I know what's going on. And so I'm at my best place because my kids are all getting older. They're all doing well. It's been hard. It's been real hard. CCC is amazing in Dallas. Brad and Chris Nieto is a great friend of mine, Brad Brown. I mean, it's all amazing. Our teams are great. We're a national chapter organization that has great leaders everywhere. And Chris Meyer makes sure he connects all of us quarterly. Again, it's important for you to be in touch with your people quarterly. Good leaders. Be in touch with your people quarterly. So yeah, I man, I'm blessed. And I am now being connected with people like you and all kinds of kinds of amazing people. And it's not about me, but it feels so good inside of me because I'm like, oh, I see why this person is, I see what you're doing here with us. And so I may be loud and talking everywhere, and I may post a lot. And some people may hate that. I, but I don't care because I'm I got a voice to speak up now. And so I heard something, and you said at the beginning, like, I love attention. I know you're kind of joking, sort of, whatever. But Matthew McConaughey said on something I was listening to, he said, people are saying, Oh, you're so full of yourself. And he said, Well, who am I supposed to be full of? You gotta be full of yourself so you can do well. I mean, know what you're good at, know what you care about, know what you know where you can make a difference and get out there and make a difference. Don't be full of yourself in a conceited way. Be full of yourself as be your best self.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

Oh my, you are star stirring it up, Neil. I agree a hundred percent. Like, y'all need to pause and rewind and listen to that last bit because it's straight truth. You know, I I do joke, but it's not really a joke. I freaking love attention. I know how to get attention. Yeah, I know how to do it poorly, also. I just don't do it like that anymore. You know, I introduce myself or I identify as a selfish servant because I know or discovered that I've been blessed with gifts and talents. And when I share them with other people, it helps me stay sober, it helps me stay sane and alive. Yep, amen. And that's why I do it, because it keeps me alive. So, yes, I'm being I'm sharing and serving, but I get a whole lot out of it. That's like for a long time, it's like, no, no, no, like no, don't uh like no no, like they don't have to pick me. Actually, the louder I am, maybe the clearer I am. Yes, it helps people know do they like me or not. And they don't all have to like me. Thank you. They just need to know. Like, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 54:08

It took me this whole time in my life to recognize. I mean, I'm gonna be honest, on my Facebook the other day, I love the thing. I there was this photo and I generated it and it had the two middle fingers up. And honestly, if anyone knows

Faith Boundaries Purpose And How To Connect

SPEAKER_01 54:21

me, if anyone and everyone who knows me totally got it. I mean, it's perfect for me. And I'm not, I don't know, but some people took it the wrong way. And I took it down briefly, and then I was like, no. And I put it back up because I thought, if you don't know me or if you don't want to work with me even because of that, because there's so much in the world that we can worry about. And if that right there, like, how about just ask me about what that means? I could tell you a million reasons I might have two middle fingers up, and it might be surprising to you that it's something funny or it's something important or something that happened to me. So anyway, I think it's important to, I think you just said you've learned that in order to serve and to be able to lead and to be able to get into bigger rooms that make a difference, you cannot care what everyone thinks. And I spent my whole life caring what everyone thought. Not everyone's gonna love you. I learned that finally. So it's part of being able to do well.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

Yes, even though I think I'm the best thing since ice cream, that don't mean everybody likes the flavor. Hey, listen, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:30

I I agree, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Neil, I'm I'll hit you with the grand slam closing question. Like, I know somebody was gonna be listening and say, Man, I need to talk to Neil. Like they're in DFW, they're in Fort Worth, they like your energy, they they connect with your story because you're pretty freaking awesome, Neil. I gotta tell you. Where do we send them if they want to connect with you?

SPEAKER_01 55:54

If they LinkedIn, of course, I'm always all over LinkedIn. I mean, really, that's probably the best place to find me. I'm working on my website and very close to completion, so I'll share that information down the road. Right now, you can hit me at neilzabendon at gmail.com. That's just N-E-E-L-Z-B-I-N-D-E-N at gmail.com and also neil.zabinden at cccfortworth.org. So, you know, but LinkedIn for me is a great way to find me and then just shoot me a message and I can connect with you outside of that. I wish I did have my website up and running right now, but I'm doing it myself and I'm learning as I go, so I'm getting there.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

The amount of time and effort I put into the website, and I didn't do I maybe did 5% myself. Looking back, I would have been just fine using DMs on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

It's I am not a tech person, and so it this has all been a lot. I had to learn some stuff for CCC. Like I said, when Courtney was out, she does this whole other side of it that's way, it's she's talented. And so I learned a lot there. And then trying to just get wrap my head around how consulting would work for me and what that looks like and the whole model and getting a website built, give me a break. So that's been quite an experience, but I'm getting I'm making progress.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Definitely put your LinkedIn profile and the stuff in the in the comments so people can connect with. That's how I connected with you.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

All right. So you ready for the Grand Slam question, Ms. Niels?

SPEAKER_01 57:33

Yes, I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

Well, I'm excited because just again, I'm gonna touch on your energy, but what comes like obviously you've got energy, you've got a lot, like you give a damn. And that comes through clearly to me. You know who you want to work with and who you don't want to work with. You have uh taken some massive lessons in a very dark time and turned it into something meaningful that you like the source of growth. So, because of all of those things, I'm excited to what your answer is going to be. So here's the question I'm saying. What is the promise you are intended to be?

SPEAKER_01 58:15

What is the promise that to to myself or to God or just my what I'm intended to be here? All of these I I truly, with every ounce of my being, believe I'm here to serve and I'm finding out how every day. I think I've always been a giving person and a caring person and a nurturing person. To a fault, though, I would let myself get walked on. I would get resentful. That's our part in relationships, is by I learned this only over the last few years and actually at a TIPS conference, stood up and spoke and cried in front of 200 and something people. That was big for me. But learning that boundaries actually help your relationships be better, whether it's a marriage or a business, or because you're telling people how to treat you. And by not speaking up when you're upset, or by not communicating with your coworkers or your friends or whoever, then you're getting mad and resentful. So my purpose is to serve, and I don't think I was serving correctly or not in the way because I was just giving of myself and exhausting myself and angry about it, probably. Now I know it's it, I knew when all the hard things were happening, and some of them were on me. I mean, I'm not perfect, okay? So I, you know, I've made mistakes and and it's learning from them, reminding myself again if I forgot. Oh, hey, like that's a message. He's trying to remind me. Hey, Neil, hello. And that I'm serving in the right way. That's right. He gives you those because if you don't want to pay attention, he'll put you in check real fast. So that's it. That's my promise that I think I'm here for is that I think I'm supposed to take all of it and give back to people who really need it. And that's what Courtney and I believe in for CCC is our charities we serve in Dallas as well. Is that it's not that we don't care about big organizations and things like that, but we really want to serve people who really need our help where we're making a difference for a smaller charity in Tarrant County or in Dallas. And and that's the same way I feel is just like I want to serve. My son said this on New Year's when it was a bad year two years ago. It was 2023, New Year's even. It was me and my little guy. And he said, What is your New Year's resolution? And I don't really do resolutions, but I had an answer, and he said, That's a good answer, Mom. I didn't think about mine that hard. But I said it's to be to keep loving everybody and to keep being giving, but to give it to the right people, to give my energy to the people who need it, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

That is ultimate. Give your greatness to the right people, to the people that know how to handle it. Damn.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

Because a lot of people mishandled it. Let me tell you that uh a lot of people mishandled what I gave. And when I was in my hardest times, and that's how I learned everything I I have changed, because in the hardest times I got left. And so I learned that there are the right and wrong people to be giving of yourself to. Be careful who you surround yourself with, it's very important.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

Oh my goodness. Bars.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Miss Neil, did you have fun?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

I had a blast. I love it. I was excited and I had no clue. I was scared I might not be able to answer a question. But I had a blast. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

You are welcome.