Dino DePasquale on Construction's Mental Health Crisis, Burnout, and the Steel Erector's Playbook

Meet Dino And The Steel Life

SPEAKER_00 0:00

There's just too many people in our industry that are suffering in silence, and they think it's because they are less than. And the fact is, it is because they're human and we will do better together. What is going on, LM family? Back again. And this time it's kind of rare. Our guest is somebody that I got to meet in person before interviewing him, which y'all know most of the people I haven't met in person yet. And it was interesting the way it worked out because I reached out and said, Hey man, can I interview you on my podcast? And he's like, Yeah, are you going to be a Converge? Because I'm going to be there. I think I saw, like, yeah, oh man, we're going to meet in person. He is the croissant champion. He is the owner and leader of De Pasquale Steel and the creator of the Steel Erectors playbook. And one of the things that I'm sure you LM family members out there are going to catch on to is that we have a kindred spirit. He has a serious commitment to helping other business owners and helping other craft professionals out there elevate their game and rise as far as they want to rise. His name is Dino de Pasquale. And we're going to get to know a little bit more about him. But first, you are listening to the Learnings and Missteps podcast, where you get a front row seat and seeing how amazing human beings just like you are sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it. My name is Jesse, your selfish servant, and we about to get to know Mr. Dino. Mr. Dino, how you doing, brother? What's up, brother? How you doing? I'm doing good, man. Yeah, we rescheduled. It's been a while, but we made, I was excited. I was talking to Aaron, who's the wizard behind the curtain on a lot of the things that we do with Depth Builder. He's like, you know, you got a few interviews this week. I was like, yes, I know, and it's awesome because I get to finally interview Dino. So I like to start with a super easy question. Are you okay with me starting kind of being lazy, going with the easy softball? Let's roll. Okay. How easy is it to operate a construction business? Oh, it's a piece of cake. Anyone can do it. I love it. I you gotta do send a couple emails and to the bike.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Come on, it's like riding a bike. Yeah, it's like riding a bike. I mean, just ask my wife. It's uh man, I'll tell you what. I wish that was the truth. I wish that was the truth. So are you okay with me going whatever direction that they see fit? All right, so

Why Construction Breaks People Down

SPEAKER_01 2:50

the first thing that comes to my mind is I'm gonna bring up something that I probably wasn't gonna bring up to the end. But so it's tough. It's hard. There's the steel industry itself is just very demanding. You know, we're we're steel erectors, right? We're iron workers. So I've been an iron worker for 31 years, had the business for 21 years. So I kind of I was born into this. This is what I was gonna do, whether I wanted to or not. I had my dad, my uncle, they're like, You're fucking doing it. Like, you know, yeah, uh, so so I was on job sites literally when I was six, seven years old. I'm freaking there. My dad's they're taking me for rides on the crane heading ball, and I'm freaking seven years old. I'm freaking I'm on job sites throwing rocks, like making up bolts, and then fast forward to high school. I'm still in high school, but I'm working full-time for my old man and my uncle in the in the summer. So like like okay. So I and and the day I graduate high school, I'm doing a full-time for a living, and I've been doing it ever since. So uh that's what I know, the steel business. But so to go kind of in a different direction off topic, you you ask me how hard it is or how easy it is, right? It's fucking tough, man. It's tough. Every day is a challenge. It's just as you know, the construction industry is just getting more demanding, you know, more red tape, more, you know, trying to collect money. I mean, we the list goes on and on, right? I mean, it's it's it's just a challenge every step of the way. Um it's a challenge that I openly accept to deal with every day. But it lends to and then the fact that it's such a high-risk industry in general, construction, and steelwork, iron workers in general, it's probably one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, right? It's up there with the top five most dangerous jobs in the world. So there's a lot that we deal with, a lot that I deal with. And you know, I have my battles with do I what am I doing? I've been doing this for so long that I am I crazy for doing this, and like sometimes I question what the hell am I doing and can I continue to do this? But I push through and I I just continue to be there for my people and and do the best job that I can as an owner. But it lends me to a new thing that I got going on, and that's you know, as much as I go through and the demons that I battle in the construction in general, the I just found this out recently, but the suicide rate is I think it's six thousand, I think six thousand suicides per every year in the construction. And I don't quote these numbers for me, but suicide is the leading cause of death in construction, not on-site work incidents. It's actually suicide, if you could believe this. So we have a I think it's safe to say we have a mental health epidemic in the construction industry.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

100%.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Um and life throws curve bars at you. So I never thought even as little as two, three weeks ago, but I'm actually in line to head a peer group on this discussion of mental health in the construction industry. So which I accept the challenge, and I'm actually really excited, excited for it. And I'm like excited for the opportunity to help as many people as I can and kind of I don't I personally don't have as deep, dark stories as some of these other guys have lived through, right? But what I have lived through is just the struggles of that I'm in this, I don't really have anybody else, an outlet to go talk to my problems every day. Nobody wants to hear it, right? You can't go home and you can only bug your wife so much with the issues you got. You know, you don't want to bring your dirty laundry to to home, right? You want to go home and actually try to shut work off and be present for your for your family. And that's and that's one thing that I've struggled with is trying to shut it off and when to be there for my wife and my family. And like just that's an art form itself, right? To try to master that. So, but that's what I could bring to the equation as far as like having to battle that and looking for an outlet. So you know, who could you talk to the stuff about, right? Yeah. Um, so so yeah, that's a new venture of mine that's coming through the pipeline is like trying trying to fuck it, trying to help people out, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, man, I am not surprised, and I applaud you. I'm not surprised because of course I found you on LinkedIn and I saw your post, and most of your posts, the ones that read like they're really captured my attention was like, You're kind of airing your dirty laundry. You did this something like less than awesome happen, and you shared this sucked, and here's how we what this is what we learned. This is how I just did. This is going into the playbook. This I'm helping the team. And I'm like, okay, like this dude really cares. Uh, and now with this this peer group that you're talking about, it's needed, bro. We like you said it, right? You are more likely to die in construction by suicide than anything else. And that's not even like those are like measurable, quantifiable deaths. How many people in the industry are suffering in addiction and self-medication to just cope with the pressures of the work within the industry, compounded with the fact that it's like it's a bro club, right? And so you're not supposed to have problems. You're just supposed to deal with it and go on. And so having a peer group of people like you're a business owner that understand like the shared experience of the pressures of operating a business, putting up with schedules, dealing with people, being a freaking human being. We need, I think the biggest problem we have in construction is that we lack connection. And this peer group that you're launching is going to be it's the medicine that we need. We need peer groups of people that are living the life so that we can cultivate connection so that we know there's another way. We don't have to end, we don't have to pull the plug. Like their support, we're not alone. It's not because we suck. And it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to say I have a problem. So have y'all like, have you landed on a name for the thing or a launch date, or is it still cooking? The idea is still cooking.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

It's still cooking. There's a lot going on in the background to get this to where it goes. But we got some amazing people that are going to be involved in this that I'm super, super excited about. I'm going to call these guys experts in the industry, and they're already doing some really good stuff in the industry. So I'm really pumped about getting the opportunity. I feel like I'm blessed to even be able to work with them and have them by my side to build this thing with. So there's a lot to be figured out, but but we are moving forward. It's going to be a thing, and I'm really excited about it. But Jesse, you brought up a good point. Addiction. So one of the one of the stats I just came across, mind boggling stat, in the construction industry, there are over 20,000 overdose deaths annually. Really? 20,000 overdose deaths annually in the construction industry. So that's another big thing that and you are very uh aware with you know addiction and and oh yeah, alcohol, alcohol abuse, addiction, or whatever. So that's another

Peer Groups As Real Medicine

SPEAKER_01 9:55

topic that I'm sure we're gonna be heavily talking to and trying to help people with which and I tell you what, we're always looking for people like yourself that I mean shit, you wrote a damn book on the topic, right? So um so I might officially, I might unofficially but officially ask you to kind of be maybe a regular guest uh peer group. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

With some kind of get it on the schedule. I'm happy to talk about it.

Addiction And Asking For Help

SPEAKER_00 10:25

We're gonna do the LM family member shout-out. And this one goes to Mr. Xavier Hernandez. He said, Jesse was great and had an awesome attitude throughout the whole time. He kept our group well engaged and for sure took some things from his course. I highly recommend it. Xavier, thank you, man. And folks, he is one of my victims. He went through one of the trainings a while back and he took the time to win and to go and lead this Google review, which makes me feel fancy. And so, one, y'all already know I love attention. I love to know that you're listening and whether I'm serving you worth a damn or not. And so anytime you take the time to leave a comment, leave a review, do the stars, share the stuff with your friends, I super appreciate it. And it gives me an excuse to shout you out in a future episode. Because, and thank you for pointing it out, right? I wrestled with addiction for most, you know what? I'll give you a crazy fact. I got a lot of friends that done international travel and go on vacations to outside of the US. And I never have. I've traveled all over the US, but I've never been outside of the country. I don't even have a passport. To date, I still don't have a passport. It's on my list and I'll get it done. And somebody once asked me, like, Jess, like, why not? Like, you got the money, you travel all over the place. Like, why haven't you traveled outside of the country? I was like, that's a good question. And the truth is, is because for the majority of my adult life, Dino, I had to ask permission to leave the county because of my legal situation, because of my addiction, substance abuse, right? Alcohol is got arrested a bunch of times. And so, because of that, I was in the system. I couldn't just leave the county without getting approval from a probation officer, the judge, or whoever. And now, what's also why it's important to me is because for so long, I didn't think I had a problem. I yeah, every what do we do in construction? We drink beer, we hang out, we work hard, we party harder. I couldn't see that I had gone past a certain point to where it started betraying me. And by the time I could see it, I had handcuffs on my wrist and I was sitting in the back of a car. And so being able or discovering that I'm not the only one that has the problem, and I'm not the only one that resorts to consuming mind-altering, mood-altering substances to deal with it helped me because they found a way out. I was like, well, shit, if they can do it, I could do it. I thought it was hopeless. It wasn't hopeless. I didn't have to suffer alone. And so, so yes, yes, I'm down to come and contribute to your peer group, A and B, all the more power you because that's super important work, man. There's just too many people in our industry that are suffering in silence and they think it's because they are less than. And the fact is, it is because they're human and we will do better together.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah. A hundred percent. Now to have that brotherhood and just that outlet where you could go, where you feel like you have a place to speak your voice and have people that are going through the same things that you're going through, and where you could feel comfortable to talk about and open up because where else could you talk about it? You know, there's not that many places, I think, and I think that's the problem. There's not too many places where you could go to find that help and talk to you know, like-minded people that are going through the same shit you're going through and get it, get it out there, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Yeah, yeah. No, it's super critical. I mean, I could read a book, right? I've done it, I could listen to a YouTube, I could get advice, but what the differentiate, like the big key for me, was talking to people that understood the pain I was experiencing with my addiction, because they weren't giving me advice, they were telling me what they actually did. And I was like, Oh, that fool knows. So I'm gonna listen to that person. You know, everybody, all my friends and family were telling me it's not good for me. Like, yeah, but you don't understand. And they did it, and so that's a different. And so, like with your peer group, being a construct, if it's a peer group of construction leaders, whatever you want to define that by, naturally, we understand, right? You're the steel guy, I'm the super hot plumber, but there's some similarities, right? There's some things that we understand about having done the work and advanced through the different ranks in construction, that there's a shared commonality that we have that increases the trust that we're gonna have for each other. And so, yeah, man, I'm excited for it. I'm excited for what y'all are gonna do, bro. That's serious.

Building The Steel Erectors Playbook

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Now, I love that that it was kind of like too bad you're gonna be the steel guy. Right now, did you? I mean, obviously, you knew that you were gonna be working in the steel space. Did you know, or when was it that you knew I'm gonna start a business or and I'm gonna share everything I learned to help other people do the same thing?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

So this that's a this is another kind of recent thing. I I knew I always knew I was meant to help people. I just that's what makes me feel good. Ever since I was even a kid, when I was a kid, I can remember Christmas time or whatever. If I could, you know, you you go to let's go back to back in the day. Uh, you know, I think we're probably gonna age ourselves now, but when you're in when you're in school and your teacher you're gonna make some type of craft or something like that and bring it to or a gift or something, and you're gonna go home and give it to your parents or whatever, or give it to you know whoever you want to give it to, right? But the act of giving, right? So I was more excited about having something that I could give to whoever. And that feeling of being able to give was always more exciting to me than actually what I was getting, you know. So I think I knew early on that I was meant to just help other people. Now I didn't know how, or I guess the thing going through life is I think it's safe to say we all struggle with this at a certain point in our lives, is what are we here for, right? I figured one of the quickest ways I've been that I could help people is I've been doing this for 31 years and I've been running this business for 21 years. So, you know, now if there's ever somebody that could help people go through the same shit that the struggles that I've gone through and avoid some of those struggles and get from point A to point B quickly, like I would consider myself an expert in the industry. I mean, it's it's I think if I didn't have the, I guess let's just call it arrogance or ego to be able to say that that I'm a considering myself an expert in the industry, maybe I'm not qualified to do what I'm doing, right? But no, I I I just learned so much along the way, right? I learned, and everything I learned was from the mistakes I made, right? And I made some big ones. And I fucked up a lot of times. But one thing I was really good at was every time I did fuck up and made a mistake, I was very good at making sure I don't make that same mistake twice, right? And what I got when I became older and wiser, I started documenting those mistakes and started creating systems around avoiding those mistakes. And how could now how could we do this better? How are we gonna do it better? Because we're not gonna make that same mistake again. We're not gonna continue to just do things like crap. Um, one of the biggest things for me is putting out a good product, right? And customer service, putting a good product out there and just and just delivering. I'm not happy unless we're delivering a good product and we have minimal to no punch lists, and like that's what I grew the company on. But when I was out in the field, I was doing things right. That's just the way I am. Just do things right the first time and make sure the customer is happy. When I leave that job site, or even when I was working for somebody, at the end of the day, I make sure I did a good enough job and worked hard enough to where my boss could only say one thing that Dino is a fucking hell of a worker and he does things, he's he just cares. And it's because I care so much, right? And that's just what it comes down to is like trying to find people that actually give a shit, right? What is your give a shit meter, right? My give a shit meter has always been like through the roof. So that just lended me to want to give back to others and the guys in the trenches, the guys that are just starting out a steel business and they're still in the trenches and they're still they're out on the job site, they're running work, right? They're going home and they're estimating. And then on the weekends, they're putting invoicing together and they're they got their maybe I have their wife helping them out, maybe not, but they're literally just trying to juggle everything. And they're like, at the beginning, you don't know any better and you don't know a way out, right? And I've been there, but there is a better way, and you can't stay in the field and grow. It's just impossible. If you're in the field, you're you're not gonna grow. It's pretty much a fact, right? So what I learned is how to how to trust other people, how to find other people, and how to clone yourself, right? You have to clone yourself, you know. And one thing you got to let go of is you're never gonna find anybody as good as you. Let's just face it, because nobody's gonna care as much as you because you it's your company, your product, right? But you don't have to find somebody as as good as you, you just got to find somebody that's 70 to 80 percent as good as you, and you gotta be good at training that person. And how do you do that? Well, you document every goddamn task you do, and you learn how to clone yourself, and you learn how to train your people and just and build your people up and build your teams out.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

So there's a few things that you said that I want to make sure people hear. You made a lot of mistakes. You created a playbook based on the mistakes you made, based on your expectations, your standards of care, the way you do things, and the way you want things done. And so for clarity, you didn't go and ask somebody how can you write it for me? You it's built on your experience. That's the summary. Your playbook is built on your experience, the your success and your growth is proof that it works. And then you say, you know what, I'm gonna share this with other people. So here's a weird question. What keeps other leaders from doing that? What do you think keeps other leaders from doing the same thing you did?

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Uh one thing is that there's a lot of leaders that don't have the confidence to feel like they could go out and help other people. It's a humbling what I learned recently is it's a humbling experience to like put yourself out there and put yourself out there as an expert, right? Because when you do that, give yourself another layer of responsibility. You put another thing on your plate that you now are responsible for, right? If you're gonna go out there to the universe, you're gonna tell your tell people, hey, I'm an expert and I'm gonna go teach people how to do something, right? But you better damn well know how to how to do that. And you better damn well have a pedigree and some experience doing that. That's what I feel most confident about is that I put the work in, I put the time in. And I I feel confident saying this about myself. I don't know a harder working person than myself. And that's been to a fault. Like many, many times that's been to a fault. And that's actually held me back. I've been the roadblock to my own success because of that. You know, hard work only gets you so much. Clarity, you know, taking a step back and looking at the big picture and knowing where your focus needs to be, and then and not trying to do everything at once is a big thing. Pick your lane, you know, and go down that lane. Don't try to go down this lane, this lane, this lane at the same time. I think we can had a little chat before this conversation. You were talking about all the different lanes and the highways and the exit ramps and stuff like that. And when you built what you're doing now, you know, we all go through this journey, right? Where we have an idea of where we want to go with something or what we want to do, but we don't know the best way to get there. And that's kind of what I'm going through with with the new coaching consulting venture is like, I know what I want to do. I know I want to help as many people as I can. And I know I have the tools to do it. I'm just trying to figure out the the the exits, the the off-ramps, the on-ramps, and how to basically package it all together and deliver it and just be there for these guys to. I just have so much that I could teach somebody. I wish I could have watched a podcast or watched somebody that was specifically had success running a steel erection business and was like looking at the camera and saying, Listen, I'm here to help you and hold your hand through all the trials and tribulations that you're going to go through, all the headaches and the hardships that you're going to freaking face. And there's going to be many, it's going to be a tough goddamn road. So tough that you're a very small percentage of people that are actually going to succeed in this, but I'm going to show you the right path and how to avoid the mistakes that I made, right? So that's going to do what I'm here to do now.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Dude, uh applaud, applause again because I love that you pointed out. Like part of it is some we just don't have the confidence. And for me, I'll say it this way: when I decided to start my little business, my plan was what I believed at the time was I needed to, like the last job I had, their main reason I took it was because the last real job where I was getting paid for working for somebody. They they wanted me to help with the cultural transformation, which is a pretty big endeavor. And huge, huge, huge, huge. Yeah. And it was with a big national brand. It's and I already knew I wanted to start my little coaching, training, consulting business, but I didn't believe I had credibility. So I said, if I go and do that, if I go and help transform their culture with the national brand, then I'll have credibility. And then I'll be able to help other people. Now, what was happening at the same time is I was live streaming and producing content and stuff. And I discovered that I already had credibility. I didn't, but that so what was missing was my confidence about it. I didn't see that my lived experience, my path, my career pathway of working in the different departments, coming from the field, all of those things had already earned me credibility. I just didn't have confidence in it. So I love that you pointed out that a lot of leaders, it's just that, and that's the hard part of being a leader, right? You don't get instructions. You're making the decisions, and you look, you're either you make the right decision, green light. If you don't, red light, you learn and you make a different decision, and that's just how it is, which is extremely difficult. And then, you know, like you said, going on to teach a love, like some people just don't have a heart of service. It sounds like you've always had that, which I think is probably one of the contributing, major contributing factors to me being drawn to you, because that's the kind of people that I like to be around. If we're out there to serve others, let's let's go start some fires, let's go do something, let's go help people. Yeah, and some people just don't have that. And that that's no judgment. I get it. But there were two two additional things that that I want

Delegation Starts With Tracking Your Time

SPEAKER_00 26:10

to poke on. One is the cloning part, two is hard work only gets you so far. But let's so let's come back to hard work only gets you so far. And I want to talk about the cloning because you said something. I read it in a book. 80% done by somebody else is a hundred percent better than me doing it myself. Now that's hard because I want it my way. But it's possible. It's so can what a couple of recommendations you have to somebody out there, maybe a future client that you're gonna be coaching and developing. Like, where would you tell them to start if they wanted to uh help develop people or ensure execution to a degree of satisfaction that they can accept?

SPEAKER_01 27:00

I would just say the the best thing to do is get pen and paper and start writing down what you're doing. Write down what you're doing on a day in, day in and day out. Like what does your day look like? And do that for nobody's gonna stay consistent and do it every single day, but do it as often as you're able to do it, right? And maybe it let's say it takes you, it doesn't really matter what how long it takes you to do that, but if if you give yourself even two weeks full of documentation, you know, I don't care if it takes you a year to do it, whatever, that's that's up to you and how quickly you wanna, you know, advance or become improved, right? And that's another thing is every single individual could create their own destiny by putting the work in. You got to put the goddamn work in, right? But just write down what you're doing. And I'll give a few examples. What are you doing at from 7 to 8 a.m., right? A lot of people just start off their day answering emails or whatever. I stopped actually answering emails first thing in the morning because it's it's to me, it's a distraction. It's the first thing that I do is I try to get my most important work done early in the morning while my mind's sharp, my mind's clear. And and clo clustering your cluttering your mind with emails is just all it's gonna do is ruin your day. It's just gonna get your brain scrambling and you're gonna start, and you're gonna start thinking about this, that, the other, whatever. Just do your most important work first thing in the day, get that done and focus, right? That's your focus time. Or work on another important thing is working on self-improvement, right? Maybe you're not even working on your actual job or whatever, but like spend some time to, you know, work on a side project or some type of self-improvement or reading a book or anything that's gonna help you become a better leader or whatever. And use the morning time for that type of stuff too. But but just write down, okay, so I'm doing this, I'm doing, I'm checking my emails, I'm now um, whatever it may be. I'm invoicing for a couple hours, or now I'm fielding phone calls. Or here's another important thing. How many phone calls are you getting throughout the day? And are you the type of person that answers the phone every time it rings, no matter what? Because you better take note of that and how much time you're spending on the phone, because that could be the single differentiator of you not getting being a good leader and get as much work done as you need to get because you might be. It's just helps you realize where your time's going and where are you wasting time on? What tasks are you with? And then when you build this list out, right? So you got two weeks worth of data. Go back and look at your list. How many things on that list can you honestly say that you could find somebody else to do? Right? Is it super important that you're the one that's doing all those things? And in the big picture, does it make sense for you to do all those things? And when you're small and you're just starting out, you don't know any better, right? So you're just gonna do all these things because that's just what you do, right? But as you, you know, grow and and you want to get yourself out of the field or get yourself working on your business at in your business, that's the easiest way to start, is just grab a pen and a notebook and just start writing down what you're doing actually every day.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

And then I know how hard that is because it's like, why am I gonna do that? That's dumb. But man, yeah, yeah, just like you. I love the frame you gave for two weeks. Make a commitment to write down what you work on every day. You're probably gonna be actually when I did something similar on Monday morning. I was doing real good. And about at one o'clock, I just stopped writing the shit down, right? I got into the weeds and I was just distracted. But you know what? Tuesday, I started again and I did lunchtime. The two o'clock I did real good, but the morning I didn't. But you said data set, right? Once I'd done that, I have, oh, how many of these things? I don't need to do all of this crap. I gotta give it to somebody. How do I give it to somebody? Well, I need to get clearer about what my expectations are, what good looks like, and then I can do that, and that creates bandwidth and super, super powerful, really important stuff. And then the slap in the face is I'm answering the phone every single time it rings. And then I'm also complaining that I can't get anything done. Maybe it's because I answer the phone every single time it rings. Because the world is not gonna end if I don't answer my phone. Like they're fancy now. I could get text messages, I could get a voicemail, I could call people back. I don't have to just answer it every time it rings.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

You have to protect your time almost like your life depends on it. And one thing people will realize is the higher you climb up the ladder and the more your business grows and evolves, you have to protect your time even more, right? You because you can't be an effective leader unless you're allowing yourself to focus on the things that are gonna move the needle for the company. And taking every single phone call and being at everybody's beck and call is gonna take away, is gonna literally take away from that. Like you, so it's just you got to be very mindful of your time. But what one important thing I want to bring up, you mentioned on Monday I would write some shit down and then by the afternoon I'd be sick of it and I wouldn't want to do it, but you get back to it Tuesday. But here's the thing more people have to be honest. So who cares if you did it perfectly, right? You're allowed to just do it at your own pace or whatever. The most important thing is that you know that you just have to do it or that it has to be done or whatever. Whatever you decide you're going to do, just you could do it at your own pace. You don't have to read a book and because this book is telling you this is the right way to do it, that you have to do it that way. No. You could take the guidance from that book or that advice from somebody and do it in your own way, but you know what you need to do, right? So I think more people need to be honest about like, you know, fuck, we're all a bunch of fuck-ups. I mean, I'm the furthest thing from perfect. I made many mistakes, still make mistakes to this day, but let's face it, like to try to be polished and and and look like you're perfect. That that's why on LinkedIn, I man, you you think it's not you think it's hard to put some of the stuff I'm putting out there and like it's you know, it's you're putting yourself out there, you're vulnerable as hell. But I've gotten some of the best feedback. People are like, man, that's so refreshing to hear that. And that's why I'm doing it. I just want to connect, I just want to be real with people. And I want people to know what it's really like to run a business nowadays when it's just all if you just put all the everything that's going great, although this is life is good, life is perfect, right? Like the the life of a business owner is just you know, sunshine and roses. That's that's not what it's like. So I like to show, give people a glimpse at what the what the real side of that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Oh yeah, man, for sure, for sure. It's uh I was talking to a buddy of mine because I got a little community going too, and he was like, he's look, Jess, what I hope, what I want out of this thing is like real con for real, for real. And I he's a ops manager for an electrical company. And I'm like, okay, tell me, tell me more. What do you mean? He said, Man, I go to these industry organizations, peer groups, that and everybody in there is talking about how perfect they are and how all their SOPs are fucking great. And I know it's bullshit. Like I've hired some of their people and I know they suck. Like they're they're putting all like I I make mistakes, I have questions, I don't know everything, and I just want to be around people that are having the same experience. And yes, right, like all for me, all the energy I used to put into polishing shit, like polishing my message and my experience and all the things, was like it took a lot of energy. And so now instead of polishing it, hey man, this is what I live, this is what I did, this what I learned, this is how I'm doing now. It helps me save energy so that I could help people and I'm having more fun doing it. Uh, it's just it's just a lighter weight, right? And I know it ain't for everybody. Actually, you got to see the book. When I published the book, my mom, I didn't give her a copy until after I published it. And she read it, and then she's like, Oh mom, mom, hey sus, not Jesse.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

You're Jesse, right? I don't want to get y'all. I don't want to get yelled at. I'm probably right on our shit list. I called you Jesse up to this point, but I I I regret.

unknown 35:33

I regress.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

You remember I love that. I'm gonna tell her she's gonna love it. But she was like, Aren't you worried that people aren't gonna want to do business with you anymore? I was like, what do you mean? It's just like all the stuff that you put in there is like they might not. I was like, oh shit, I didn't think about that. But it's had the opposite effect. People are like, I need you to come talk to my people because I read your book and I know you've been through it. And so, main point hiding it and polishing it is that's just wasted energy. Better, just this is what it is, and you get to pick, not everybody's gonna like me. And that comes across in your stuff.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Can I you mind if I go somewhere with this?

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Yeah, man, come on, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

So, just recently, and this is when I talk about being vulnerable and putting yourself out there, so as far as portraying yourself as a company that does things the right way,

When A Job Goes Sideways Own It

SPEAKER_01 37:15

right? And that's very important to me to do things the right way, right? But we still so I could service, you know, and I have a ton of repeat customers. I'm very blessed that I have a lot of repeat business and that I have people that put a lot of faith in us, right? But we still fuck up, right? So we had a job recently, and I'm gonna just tell the story is really fresh. I want to tell it, and this is very important for people to hear. We had a job recently where it went off the rails. I had a new foreman, I'm not trying to make excuses, but I had a newer foreman, and he deviated from the plan. Okay. He never deviated from the plan, but he did. And it was my fault to not properly onboard him and train him because we know better, right? We know better as leaders and companies to not put somebody out there. But we were we're just we're busy as hell. We have so much work going on, having trouble handling all the work. I in order to cover all the bases, I put a guy in a truck and gave him an opportunity to run a run a job for me. Well, he fucked the job up badly. He did a lot of he in it snowballed. There's like one thing, turn into another, turn into another. At the same time, I'm posting things on LinkedIn about you know how we do things the right way. And, you know, and and and I'm thinking to myself, like, fuck, can I even make this post this week about something positive or that we try to do things the right way? I think what it was is while while I got this mess going on in the background, but here's the most important thing about that. And this is a lesson that I want your viewers to hear. So, as vulnerable as I was in that moment, and how bad we look to that customer in the moment, right? Here's the lesson. It's how you respond in those moments, is what matters the most, right? We could have just said, throw our hands up and walked away or not dealt with it head on, but I said, shit. Once I found out how bad the problem was and how urgent it was a school. Well, you got tight schedules and you got to get it done in the springtime, and you know, there's no there's no fucking around, right? You got to get the work done. So we were delaying the project and we had to get this, we had to write the ship. So we had a big meeting, all hands on dock, and basically it's like pointing all fingers at us. Deep asqually, you guys fucked us up. What are you gonna do to fix it? How are you gonna what's your manpower and knee is gonna look like? And I just I told my team, I was like, guys, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna throw the kitchen sink at this problem, and we're gonna fucking fix it, and we're gonna take financial responsibility for it. We're gonna just and we're gonna make this a priority, and and that's what's most important, is that's when you earn trust with your customer. When you could, because it's easy when things are going good, right? Everybody looks good when things are going good. It's how do you respond when things are going when shit hits the fan? How do you respond? How do you show up as a leader? And I feel like I'm a master problem solver because I've been just doing this for so long, and you get so much crap thrown at you that you have to you you gotta learn how to deal with it. So, man, I tell you what, we I did everything in my power to try to rectify that situation as quickly as humanly possible. And we're not completed yet, we're 99% done yet. We're almost over that hump. But um, and I'm not even sure how that customer, that general contractor is going to feel about it ultimately. But I can't wait to have the conversations, hey, listen, you know, and just have the Canva conversation with them and and just you know, say, I hope that I apologize that we got you in this situation and I hope that I did my put my best foot forward to to fix the problem when we ran it. But that's a super important thing is will you show up when things get hard? Right?

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Yeah, man. And what I what I heard was you took ownership. Okay, this is ours. We're gonna, this is what we're going to do. This is what this is the plan going forward, where you could have been spending time finding other people that contributed to the problem and no, no, it's ours. Here's the plans, we're gonna make it happen. Massive, massive. Most contractors and construction in general, nobody remembers all the nice favors and beautiful conversations and commitments at the beginning of the project. What they remember is how you finished. Like they will never forget how you finished. And so I'm I'm curious to hear, but and so I also understand appreciate the you know, yeah, yeah, we're kicking ass. And at the same time, you got this disaster going. I was like, oh shit. But you know what? That's life, man. Like, who doesn't have that scenario going on, right? I can talk all the smack I want about optimizing processes and having a standard and communication and time management. And my life's falling apart at home. I my the registration sticker on my truck is expired because you know what? It's true. Why? Because life, man, it's going to happen. So two things can be true at the same time. And I think, like you said, I think the nugget is it's how you respond in the moment, in the crisis, in the pressure. Do you own it? Do you deflect it? I'm all about the people that own it. If you can waste all your time you want deflecting, but that don't make it better. Um now, so you mentioned I'll go back to hard work only gets you so far. Now, I want to kind of tie it into you're starting a peer group, you're launching your coaching consulting business, you have the Steel Erectors playbook, and you're operating De Pasquale Steel. Like, is that just a matter of working hard?

SPEAKER_01 42:46

So great point. And this is where I'll fully admit, is one of my faults is that I've if I told you how many businesses that I tried to start and failed outside of the couple of businesses that I do have, you'd kind of see the pattern here, right? But the the new ventures that I'm doing though are for a good cause, right? That's my this is where I'm figuring out what my purpose is, right? So Deepest Quality Steel is still going strong, and I still got to give my attention to that, right? But luckily I built a really good strong team and I have a little more time freedom, right? So with that time freedom is the new ventures. But and the one I'm looking forward to the most is not even my coaching business where I'm gonna give back to other steel erector owners and try to get them out of the trenches, right? And help them build systems and processes and run things more smoothly. But this the the new venture where I could with the mental health thing, that's that's where when you get a when you're looking for a sense of purpose or you're calling or whatever, when I got asked to do that, was there a hesitancy there? Sure. But at the same time, I'm like, you know what? Fuck. If there's ever a time to say yes, it's now for this cause, right? If you want to truly be a man of your word and want to give back and help people, what better way when you got an opportunity that gets thrown in your lap? I could have turned around and said no, because life is hard right now and I got a lot going on. I felt like something was telling me to say yes and that I should do this. So that's that's I hope that kind of answered your question a little bit of why I'm juggling so much.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

But yeah, no, man, I'm not judging. I applaud you and I also same. I'm always starting new shit. I it takes a lot of effort. I got people in my life that helped remind me Hey dummy, you said you weren't gonna start any new bullshit. Oh, yeah, my bad. But I heard this on a podcast, and I just decide to believe that it's true. They had done a stud, there was a study done on very successful business operator owners. And what they found, like when I say successful financial performance, delivering a service, it was really good. What they found was the assumption was that it was going to be like 30-year-olds doing tech stuff, right? Or AI businesses. What the study was showed was the majority of those that met the qualification were like in their late 40s and 50s, and that the businesses, the driving force behind the business was that whatever they were doing, the service or product that they were providing, gave them fulfillment, a sense of personal fulfillment. That was the common thread they found through it. And so, based on what you told me, to me, it's just the next logical step, right? These are things, like you said, finding the purpose, getting fulfillment by serving others with the experience and knowledge that you've gained over the years. I think that's the key. I think the thing that freed me from my addiction was serving others. When I learned how to think about other people, or maybe not only think about myself, the world changed for me. And so, in terms of what you're doing, I think is like, hell yeah, it's gonna be, it's gonna work. It's gonna be impactful. Now, I also recognize that you, and you know this, you developed some skills through your career that have helped you create the conditions to allow for this. And so here's a question maybe for some of your future coaches out there. There's a difference, like in the field, when you're installing hanging shit, you're recognized for how much you get put in and how much effort you put out. But if that's all you ever do, you'll only ever be an installer. And so there's a new skill set that we have to develop to be able to advance, if we want to, into more influential, higher responsibility, higher income. And I think it's that skill set that you're applying now that's allowing for all the things you got going on. So here's the question: What is that skill set? What are the things you can't just work hard at some point? Just working harder isn't enough. What are the things that installer needs like that's frustrated and wants to go up to the next level, wants more responsibility and authority? What are some of the things that they need to be working on?

SPEAKER_01 47:22

They need to number one, they need to ask themselves, am I truly up for the challenge? Do I you got to get you got to get your mind right first, right? I

Resourcefulness Beats Raw Talent

SPEAKER_01 47:33

think if you don't get your mind right first, you're never gonna, you're never gonna see it and you're never gonna convince anybody that you're the person for that job. I think once you have the confidence and you got the the mindset that you want to climb the ladder, like you wanna become, let's say you're a journeyman iron worker and you want to become a foreman, or you're a foreman and you want to become a superintendent or a project manager or whatever the case may be, you you got to commit to it, get your mind right. And then you got to just do whatever it takes to teach yourself. One thing people don't understand is that you have there's so many tools out there at your disposal that, but if you truly want to climb the ladder and be successful and move from point A to point B, what could you do without somebody holding your hand to do that? You could go read a book, you could go watch some podcasts, you could, there's so in today's technology, day and age, there's so many resources out there. So, one of the first people things that I ask people that would come to me and say, Hey, I want to be a foreman, I want to do that, I want to do whatever. And I tell them, okay, what have you done that would convince me that you're ready to do that? What I'm looking for is I'm looking for people that are driven and that are resourceful, right? My biggest thing is I want resourceful people. Like if you can't be resourceful, like you're not gonna be valuable to me, right? Because I I don't want my team to have to hold your hand for everything. I want you to be able to go find the answer. One of the things that made me as successful as I am today is because I had to be resourceful. Because my dad, he was the type that just threw you to the freaking wolves. He's like, go fucking figure it out. And don't come to me unless you exhausted everything, every option that you could think of, and then you could come to me for help then. Because I'm gonna ask you, what did you do to try to figure out the problem before you came to me, right? So that I became resourceful by nature because that's what I was thrown into. So I try to train my people. But if you want to climb the ladder, get off your ass and do something. And so when that, when your boss says, Hey, tell me why you think you're ready, you could go to him and say, Hey, listen, man, I watch this podcast. I bring them something, anything. It doesn't have to be huge or grand, but bring them something that is gonna prove that you're ready, right? You could help your own destiny if you choose to do so. But it you can't be lazy, and you're gonna naturally just show them that you're ready by doing little small things on your own. And that's the best advice I could give somebody right then and there.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Yes, yeah. I made this mistake a lot in my life in that when I could see somebody had resources, I assumed that they were resourceful. And when I say resources, I'm talking about just natural talent, right? An ability to communicate, ability to influence people, or those are resources. But if they're not resourceful, it don't matter how many resources you got. And just like you said, like right now, we got we didn't have YouTube back in hell. We didn't have freaking cell phones when I started. We had fax machines and pagers. That's how we communicated on the job side, man. Anyways, you got YouTube, you got Google, now you got the GPTs. If you want to learn a skill, they're so accessible nowadays. The one that that I think is dumb, the dumbest investment I made in myself that paid off the most was taking a keyboarding class at night school at the community college. I was like, man, I want to learn how to type. So I signed up for a to learn how to type. Yeah. Dumb, right? Who cares about typing? Guess what? When I got promoted to superintendent, I was a foreman at the time. When I got promoted to superintendent, I was like, I would use my emails, right? I was responding, reaching out, communicating with the GC. So I was eight, like I had the skill to communicate digitally. And all of a sudden, that dumb skill helped all my project managers, all our clients say, Man, freaking Jesse, he I went and built a skill. I was resourceful. I didn't complain and say, oh, they nobody's teaching. I was like, I'm gonna go learn this thing. And I paid a few bucks out of my pocket, I sacrificed a few hours, but it paid off in the long run. And so, yeah, man, resource being resourceful is extremely valuable. I don't care if it's a keyboarding class, but I would say awesome. What else have you, what other skill have you gone to learn? Because right, like I said, nowadays you know this, you can go, you can access anything for cheap, like way cheaper than what it used to be. Love it. Now, before we transition into the closing question, Dino, where do we send people? If they want to, if they're like, man, I want to work for a guy like Dino or want access to some

Where To Find Dino And Final Promise

SPEAKER_00 52:37

of the services you're providing in terms of training and coaching, where do we send them?

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Uh you can go to Dino DinoDeepestquality.com. Or go to my LinkedIn page. You can find me, you can find the resources through my LinkedIn page, or as far as my steel business, you can go to www.deepasquality steel.com for all your general contractors and fabricators out there. And then we also have we also have one more thing at Crane Rental Company. So deepasquali crane rental.com. So if you're looking for any any crane, any crane dumper.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Oh, baby. When you say crane company, all I hear is capital expense. That's big dollars, man. Dude, good on you, man. You got tons of exposure that you can help a ton of people. We'll make sure we get the links in the show notes when we publish the thing. So thank you for that, man. And if you're wondering, yes, I endorse Dino. He's a freaking solid dude. Got to meet him in person. We didn't even get to talk about the Crescent Championship, but we got to meet in person at the Converge Construction Summit, which was which exceeded all of my expectations, which has led to this, and I think contributed to the peer community that you're going to be a part of with Kevin and some other people that were there. So it's amazing. So, Megan, good job, Megan. Look at what you started.

SPEAKER_01 54:05

Yeah. By the way, Converge. Converge. Two thumbs up. Two thumbs up. Conference you don't want to miss. Conference you don't want to miss.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Dude, okay. So what I don't know who you knew or how you knew. Like, how did you end up finding Converge and then deciding to go to Chicago for the thing?

SPEAKER_01 54:25

This is it's I'm from Chicago, so it was locally for me. So that was that made it easier. But I literally just saw it through LinkedIn, through Megan. Actually, I started watching, I started seeing some of your guys' content. Jesse, I started seeing some of your stuff and love some of the stuff you were doing. I one thing that gravitated me towards you was just how raw and honest and real you are. And that's what I relate to, right? You don't care about the fluff and the bullshit and the no nonsense. And me and you, I think our very first conversation, that's what I told you. But I didn't really know anybody. And it was funny because when I got there, Chuck was there, and Chuck was supporting me on LinkedIn. He didn't even know me, but he just happened to come across some of the stuff I was putting out there, and he was supporting me. I'm like, who is this guy that's continually to support me? And I thought it was amazing. And this is what I loved about Converge is like the whole room full of people was like just the best people ever, right? And I think that from day one to the end, it was I think we were, it's fair to say we all opened up, right? More so than you're normally going to open up. We I think a lot of us got vulnerable, got deep, and I think the conference just felt like just real and intimate. And man, I just can't say enough great things about it.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Man, it was amazing. I've been to everyone, and I intend to keep continue going. I'll be in Nashville next year again to look for more of the same and get new people. Because, like you said, it's the type of people, it's the feel, man. It's freaking motivating, it's inspiring. All right, brother. You ready for the Grand Slam closing question? I'm ready. Okay. I'm excited for two reasons. One, you have a very natural way of making things clear and simple, like actionable. And two, because of your path, right? You started out in the field, uh, you started a business, you're giving back, you care, you give a shit about people's mental wellness and people surviving in the industry. And so, because of the combination of those things, I'm like, oh, I think his answer is gonna be heavy. So here's the question What is the promise you are intended to be?

SPEAKER_01 56:40

I'm gonna keep this simple. I promise to just be a damn good person, right? I think I think people with the crazy world we live in, and there's just so much shit going on, like left and right, up and down. And my world's so chaos chaotic too, with everything I got going on in my business and how how much red tape and just and I've been dealing with it for so long that what I care about is just being a damn good person. And what my purpose is just connecting with as many like-minded people when when people say get in the right rooms, like that's when I was at Converge, man, that did I feel like I was in the right room, man. I really think that might have been the launch pad to some really great things that are uh in my future. But my calling is gonna be to just be a damn good person and hopefully that just rubs off on others, right? To because I could go out there and do all this grand stuff and brag about this and brag about that, and I've done this and I've done that. I don't care about that. What I care about is going and finding my people, the people that I want to surround myself with that are like-minded and making as many of those connections as possible and just touching as many people in a positive way that I can. That that's my mission from this point on. That's what I intend to stick to.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

Dude, I knew it. Simple, massive, like super simple, super massive. Forget the bullshit, find the right people, and that's it. That's it. Oh man, yes, yeah, I got chilled because I'm like, yes, it's that easy. It can be as easy as we let it be.