Overcoming Doubt to Become President of Iron Workers 197 with Carole Raftrey

SPEAKER_02 0:00

What would you counsel them on how to deal with that situation?

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Well, being today's day and age, there are more women in the trades right now and a lot more women that are taking on foreman's roles and um heads of companies. So what I would say is seek out those women. You know, go talk to them, ask their opinion, you see what they've lived through and what they've done, and if they had any advice for you going forward. I mean, back then when I was there, I was the only woman in in the local, and um I was under you know you're you're kind of under a microscope. Everything you do is amplified, whether it's right or wrong. It's bigger than it is, you know. So that's what it was at that time. So with now today's day and age, um I I'm on a job right now where every other person is a woman, it seems like. I mean, there's so many, and I I uh to me it's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

What's going on, LM family? Jesse here, and I have Mr. Michael Fina with ULA Network, who is going to be helping us introduce today's guest, Miss Carol Raftery. You've heard just a little clip of her, uh, but he went out of his way to hook us up, and so I'm gonna hand it over to Mr. Michael. Tell us about ULA Network and Miss Carol, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yes, Jesse, thank you again for having me on today. And uh look forward to future opportunities to work with you. Uh Learnings and Missteps is doing some incredible work, you know, highlighting it and interviewing uh people that inspire me within the trades, and that's how we connect it on social media. Just a little bit about the ULA network. Uh, the Union Labor Advisory Network is a site to support, educate, and promote informative content relative to our union labor community. And for the past 15 years, I've been supporting labor from a banking perspective. And with financial technology enhancing a lot of the world, labor is starting to embrace a lot of that information, how we move money and things of that nature. And I've been very fortunate to meet a lot of labor executives, union presidents and business managers, as well as their supporting staff and executive board, learning how to work and support their mission through apprenticeship opportunities, diversity in labor, women in the trades. And it's really been inspiring to me because that's the lifeblood of these labor organizations. And as we look to train what these career paths are, Carol has been an inspiration to me, one of my clients, and just learning you know a little bit more about her through a recent conference and having her experience over the past 30 years in the trades as an iron worker for local 197. I thought it would be a perfect opportunity for us to get her on uh your platform, to have you do what you do with learnings and missteps. And I wanted to get her connected and through future opportunities like this, promote labor in the best possible way. So I can't thank you enough for this opportunity again to interview Carol and uh show the world what the trades are all about, get her some recognition for what she's been doing, and hopefully inspire other women uh to join that career path as well. So thank you, Jesse.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yeah, 100%. Thank you, Mr. Mike. And just in case y'all missed it, LM family, keep an eye out for this type of collaboration in the future because Mr. Michael Fina uh with ULA Network is going to be helping out the effort, right? Putting a breaking some sweat to make it happen because we want to get the stories out there and we want to celebrate the men and women out there doing it all to enhance the image of careers and the trades. So here we go, Miss Carol. Dang it, I got super excited recording that opening with Mike Fina, working with people out there in the industry that are about enhancing the image of careers in the trades just gets me like super, super juiced up. But we cannot forget to shout out all of our patrons out there. Thank you all very much for contributing, uh, for signing up for the for the membership levels that you've signed up for. It means a lot for you to go out of your way and sign up for the different subscriptions and put some money in on this bad boy. We love it. We are grateful to you for that. For LM family members that are interested in contributing in any way, head on over to learningsandmissteps.com, hit the become a member button, and then it's going to take you to another button. Uh, and then you'll get to select the level that you want to participate in. Uh, we love you for thinking about us. Share, comment, all of the good things, give us ratings, all that stuff. Uh, but if not, just listen and smile. And here goes another great one. What's going on, LM family? I am here with Miss Carol Raftree. Did I get that right, Miss Carol? You certainly did. Awesome, awesome. How are you this morning?

SPEAKER_04 4:57

I'm good. I'm good. It's a holiday weekend, a long weekend. I'm looking forward to it. Everything's good.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Yes. Oh, thank you so much for making this time. I mean, it's it's Saturday, July 2nd, right now. We're recording um right before the holiday week. And I have a bad habit, have bad habit of like forgetting about holidays. And when you, Mike, and myself were talking about, I was like, Oh, yeah, it's the holiday weekend. And you're like, Yeah, it's cool, we can do it. Yes, excellent. And so you're in New York City? Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_04 5:28

I'm in Brooklyn, New York right now.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Brooklyn, New York. So, Mike, I think we introduced him as like boogie down Brooklyn. And then when I recorded the opening, I said boogie down Bronx, and I I got in a little bit of trouble there. So I don't want to mess it up this time. Oh that's a bad thing, huh? Yes. Oops, my bad. Sorry, Mike. Oh my goodness. I'm excited to have you here. So, Miss Carol, what should the LM family know about you?

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Well, I'm a 30-year iron worker in New York City. We specialize in the Stone Dark Minute Rigors local, 197. It's part of the International The Iron Workers, but what we do is the facades of buildings. Uh, we do the stonework on the outside of it. And I started at a young age in this business, and now I'm pretty close to my retirement, and I became president of the local two years ago.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

So you say you started at a young age, and that's like super, super interesting. How what was it that attracted you or pulled you into this?

SPEAKER_04 6:41

Well, I had graduated college and there was a recession going on. So when I went out to get a job in the field that I went to school for, there was nothing there. But the apprenticeship had opened up, and my father was in the union at that time, and he said, Come in, try, try to get in. You know, if you like it, you could stay with it. If you know, you can go back out when things pick up in the economy and go back to what you were doing in college.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

So you you like went to college, did your education, finished it, and then got into the trade. So in college, what was it that you were focused on?

SPEAKER_04 7:15

It was actually broadcast management, you know, getting the commercials, putting them in the spot, getting the Nelson numbers, and showing which show should be played at what time. So I was always a numbers person.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Okay. Okay. Well, and how did you get exposed to that? That's like kind of specialized in unique stuff.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Yeah, well, I went in to do um, you know, I I was always fascinated by TV. I grew up in the TV age, you know, we all sat in front of the TV every night, watched TV. I was thinking that'd be cool to see how things got made and produced. So I kind of went into that part of it, like producing radio shows, doing little shows for the campus television. And then I said, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I don't have that talent, but I do like the numbers, and I figured this show should be slotted into this. And once I took class about Nelson ratings, I thought that was interesting, and I felt that that would be part of what I could do.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

So, like all the science behind all the stuff that's on TV. Yeah, yeah. Oh man, you know, some of the some of the LM family members out there have no idea what TV was like back then. Like, remember the big giant council televisions, big wood frame? It took three guys to carry, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

It was a piece of furniture, it wasn't you know, a picture on the wall anymore.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah, oh yeah, you could have mounted on the wall if you wanted to change the channel. Somebody had to get up and physically change the channel. And there were like three channels back then. Yeah, that's it. So, what kind of cool stuff? I mean, now with we have social media out there, YouTube, we got all kinds of stuff where like people can consume content and information. What kind of parallels do you do you see now with what you learned back when you were in university?

SPEAKER_04 9:11

Uh back then they were talking about like 24-hour news cycles. This is before CNN, MSNBC, and you know, people getting on computers. Even back then, not everyone had a computer when I went to college. Show my age right now, but that's the way it was. And they were talking about all that, and I never thought it would come true. But now here we are in the 24-hour news cycle. You get you have a computer in your pocket, it's your cell phone now. I mean, when I had my first computer, took up my dining room table, you know. Yes, yes, yeah. So, I mean, that's what they talked about. And I, for some reason, I was like, how can you have 24 hours of news, 24 hours of TV? Because back when I was young, TV went off at two o'clock in the morning, came back on at six, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Yes, so they would it would have that sound, right? And then it would do the squigglies and then nothing's on, and then it would come back. Yeah, I remember. Oh man, times have changed dramatically. Yes. Oh my goodness. So went to university, uh, got into the trade, and it um we'll come back to that, but it obviously you fell in love with it, and you're doing a whole lot of amazing things out there uh for the people doing the work. Before you went to university, what were you what was in your head around career, like the earliest memory you can have about what you wanted to do when you grow up?

SPEAKER_04 10:46

You know, I'm I'm not really sure. I I was always I kind of fell into everything I did. You know, I just kind of wandered around. I really didn't have like I wanted to be a doctor, I wanted to be an astronaut. No, I never had that. I was just I wanted to be part of something, you know, that would make a difference.

SPEAKER_05 11:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Yeah, yeah. So you know, when I got into college, that's like I said, I thought something was interesting. I would go take a class in it. And if I thought it was very interesting, I continued with it. You know, I just wanted to do something different. I guess that's what it was when I got there.

unknown 11:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

No, you know, I think what's important about that is I remember back when I was in middle school and high school, it's like, you gotta know what you want to do, your career, and like all this stuff. And my experience has been if I just follow what's interesting to me, right? Like what makes me feel challenges my mind and and provides an opportunity for share my gifts and talents, I'll do all right. I'll do pretty damn good, actually. Yeah, it's so straight that path. It doesn't have to be defined, it it's almost always changing. I mean, like now you're the president of your local union, is that correct?

SPEAKER_04 12:07

Yes, yes, I am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

And so was that like back when you got into apprenticeship? Did you chart out, okay, I'm gonna finish my apprenticeship program, I'm gonna work on these big, giant, amazing projects, and now I'm gonna be the president of the local union. Is that how it came about?

SPEAKER_04 12:24

No, I actually didn't. I just got in, I started working, and um I would just kind of sit back and listen as an apprentice to everyone talking about how the union worked, how it functioned, where the funds were, how things were, you know, money was getting spent in the funds, how we were making interest. And again, the numbers. So it kind of grabbed me. And I'm like, all right, so if we invested here, then that should happen here. And then it was just like I kind of just started listening. And then when I got out of the apprenticeship, I was like, well, you know, three years ago we tried it this way and it didn't work. Why do you think it's gonna work now? And they're like, how do you know it? I was like, I was part of the union, I could hear what was going on just because I was an apprentice didn't make me, you know, as uh insignificant, but I just kept my mouth shut and just listened to things. And again, um I kept voicing my opinion and you know, things of that nature, going to all the union meetings, going to any classes they had, asking questions, talking to people, and say eventually somebody came up to me and said, Well, you you know, you gotta put your money where your mouth is, when you can run for some office and figure out things. And I was like, I was like, yeah, that sounds interesting. In a couple of years, when I, you know, I have a couple more years' experience in the business, I'll do it. And later on that month at the union meeting, it was nominations for office, and all of a sudden that guy just stood up and nominated me for a union trustee position. I'm like, I said, I guess it's time to put my money where my mouth is, and I accepted it and I won the position. I was like, all right, that's when it started. Oh again, one of those things I just kind of drifted into, you know.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Yeah, yeah. So they talked to you about it, and you were like, Yeah, yeah, sure, in a couple of years. And then like a month or two later, boom, you're in it. You're you're sitting, you got an office.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

I'm getting sworn into the office. I was like, okay, now I gotta put up or shut up.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Oh, yes, ma'am. Oh, but you know, that's a that's a really important, that's a really important lesson. You know, I remember um I worked, who was I was working with Ed, Ed Maldise, who's a pipe fitter. I was his helper. I think it was like my second year of apprenticeship. So I was his helper for a little while. Hard man, but man, he he taught me so, so, so much. Anyhow, uh, he would tell me, he's like, you know, Jess, because you know, I I'm kind of opinionated. And and uh he would say, Jess, you know, it's good that you voice what bothers you because the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Like if you don't speak up, nobody's you're you're just gonna be stuck in the situation you're in. He said, but you gotta remember the broken wheel gets replaced. So if all you're doing is squeaking, you're gonna get replaced. Like, oh, that's a that's a whole different that's true. That is true. Okay, so you got like thrown into this position. What how did you how did you go about like figuring out how to serve in that role and and accomplish the things that you wanted to accomplish that also helped the rest of the of your your your people?

SPEAKER_04 15:48

Well, I would I grabbed a hold of all the books, the constitution of Bilas, started reading them, and if I didn't understand something, I would go to somebody that I respected within the local that had some years in. And uh he was uh he was like what you said, a hard man, kind of quiet, but knew everything, remembered everything, and I would ask him questions, and um at first he blew me off. But then when I would keep going back to him and go, come on, I know you know the answers to these things. What's going on here? What is it? What am I supposed to be doing? And uh eventually he just said, you know what, you're persistent, you're kind of a pain. So I got I gotta answer your question, otherwise you're never gonna go away. And he did, and I took his perspective, and then I would go ask somebody else that was kind of a different personality from him, their perspective, and kind of took it to my, you know, took both sides of it and went to the business manager and go, I think this is what the position is I'm supposed to be doing. And he goes, Yes and no. He goes, Some of it's right, some of it's wrong, and he would coach me and he goes, you know what, you should keep thinking about you know running for office. He goes, you kind of take all sides of it and look at what the problem is and try to break it down and see what can be solved and what can't be solved, and who's best to solve them, too. You can't do it all yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

So how did you that that's like a super cheat code? How did you figure that out that you can't do it all yourself?

SPEAKER_04 17:30

Uh I would say being young and dumb and trying to do it all myself and kind of screwing things up. Oh you know, we with age comes wisdom, I have to tell you.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

And it's the bumps and bruises, right? A friend of mine, Fernando, calls it the learning scars, right? The yes, those those lessons that we had that man, there's a really good story tied to that lesson, and it didn't feel good at the time. Yes. Okay, so you you had you were you had finished apprenticeship and then you got an office, your first office. How does that like so I'm assuming that you still you're still out installing full time and you're serving in this office as extracurricular or just serving your community?

SPEAKER_04 18:18

Yes, I'm still in the field working, and uh along with that, I'm the president. I have to oversee a lot of the funds and where the money's being spent, invested, things of that nature. Yeah, so it's kind of um uh it's like having two jobs, yeah, at least.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

And then you like have a life outside of all of that, I'm sure. I try to, yeah. Oh so in in your career, what kind of changes have you seen in terms of the people that are doing the work, the way it's being managed? Have you seen any significant changes in that space? Oh, tremendously.

SPEAKER_04 19:02

Uh uh, yeah. Uh just the economics of it. Everyone's trying to do it with less people. Um uh we do a lot of precast work. So there are heavy precast panels that go on the outside. What they do now is make the panels even larger. Instead of having two to set two or three panels, they figure, oh, we can truck one panel that's the size of three. So they're getting bigger, heavier, more connections to them, a lot more details to it. So I mean, yes, everything is getting um how can we say downsized? I mean, when I started in, you would have 10 people in a gang doing work, and now you could do a job with six, five or six people. Yeah, yeah. So it has changed a lot.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

How about safety? Do you see a significant difference in the may when maybe maybe rephrase it? Not safety necessarily, but has the work become easier on the people doing the work?

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Oh no. I mean, you have less people to do it and it's getting heavier. Uh so no, is it's not getting easier for anybody. Um and kind of what we do, uh technology is very little um impact with technology. So it's still kind of old school, you know, put the rod in, pick it up with a bar, moving around that way. You know, high tech to us is maybe a port of power and electric drill. I mean, we're still ironworkers, we're still kind of doing it all hands-on. No lasers. Yeah, uh, we do. We do lasers for the setting and doing layout, yeah. So that's like the biggest technology there.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Yeah, yeah. But it's a significant shift, you know. I came up as a plumber, and so I came up using a plumb bob, right? Like, we didn't have a laser, you had a plumb bob. Yep. And I was uh I went out to a project one time, and they're I'm like, guys, what's going on? Like, well, we're so and so. Well, you went to the gas station to get batteries. I was like, batteries for what? We can't do anything because the batteries are dead, like we didn't have extra batteries for the laser. I'm like, you you're kidding me. Like, bro, get your plumb bob. And like, what's that? Like, and right there in that moment, I knew, like, oh wow, man, like this is a different, just a different place altogether. Yeah, but I'll tell you what, if I had a laser over a plumb bob, it's a lot easier to use that darn laser.

SPEAKER_04 21:30

Yes, yes, it is, it's so much easier. No wind, if the wind's blowing, your plumb bob is you know blowing around you. No, the lasers are have made life so much easier.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Yes, yeah, and then the wind. So you're talking about wind, and like I'm in San Antonio, Texas. I've done some work around, you know, Texas, but I don't think I've been as high as you have out in New York City. Uh, what kind of heights do you have you worked on putting these Exterior facades on these buildings?

SPEAKER_04 22:04

I think the highest I've been was 82 stories.

unknown 22:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

You can just see everything, huh? It's amazing. The sights you see, very few people will ever see. You know, the view once that building's occupied, very few people will be there. And it's amazing. Just from the first job I was on in Manhattan, if I was to go back there, the skyline has completely changed. It's amazing how much development is in New York City. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

It's nuts. I was there, I don't know, three or four months ago, and it didn't matter where I was, there was some work going on. There's tower crane somewhere, there's like real work happening. You can see craft workers walking with their hard hats or their vests or their lunch, like just tons and tons of work happening out there. So you got to see, you got to see TV transform. You got to see the New York City transform and you're transforming along with it. I've been able to go and talk to high school students about careers in the trades. And you know, a lot of times they'll ask, you know, what should we, what kind of skills and all this stuff, right? I'm like, hold on, I say, let's step back from what you need to bring to the organization and let's talk about you. And and this was my simple example. Like, if you're a very social person, like you need human contact on the regular, this could work for you. And and you can work on a team because there's a lot of teamwork, there's a lot of communication, there's a lot of sometimes drama, right? Like there's this stuff. But if you think you want to be a welder and you're a very, very social person, that might not work out. And like, well, why? Like, do you have to be a social person? Like, no, when you're a welder, you're under the hood all the time, right? And when you're under the hood, you ain't talking to nobody. And so that environment is not designed to nurture some of the needs that you have, and the inverse of that, if you're very like if you're introverted and you'd rather not talk to people, because believe me, sometimes I just rather not talk to people. Um, maybe being a welder is a perfect career for you because you get to isolate from the world and just focus on your work and get that done. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_04 24:30

No, it's true, uh it's very much true. I mean, I've done a lot of welding in my career, and it's true. You put that shield down in your own, your own world and work in a way. And um, I'm an I'm basically an introvert. I like some downtime from you know, being around people, and so welding was good for me. You know, I could just drop the shield and just burn some rod and have some cute, you know, you know, quiet time. And then uh, but then uh, you know, if like you said, if you're an extrovert, welding's gonna kind of drive you a little back. You're gonna be in your own thoughts all night, you know, for eight hours a day and not talking to anybody. You're gonna be the guy with the shield on, talking to yourself.

SPEAKER_05 25:19

That's me.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

That's me. I'd be working, I'd be working in a mechanical room. They know just go in the mechanical room because I like the complexity of it, right? I'm gonna be all the stuff. And and it was fun because it's a lot, like it kept my mind engaged. But I found out they would put me in the mechanical room because I was always talking and I was just like too loud. But even in the mechanical room, I'm singing, I'm talking to myself. I'm like, they're like, dude, are you okay? Like, yeah, man, what's going on? Come on in, we're having a party. Who's here? Just me.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

But that's the good part of the trades. You you can have different types of characters within one um group of people working on a project, you know, different personalities, and and you really it's a really social environment. You're working hard and you're joking around. You know, the thing is, uh, like I said, I like the detail parts and the number parts. That's what always fascinated me. But I also love the challenge of building something.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 26:24

And that's what the one thing with everybody that's in the traits, especially w what I do, is like, you know, we work hard, we get dirty, it's dangerous work, but at the end of the day, you can take your kids walking around Manhattan and go, hey, look, I I built that. That you know, I worked on that. You can take your kids or your family or anybody and say, you know, I worked on that. I did this right here, I did the facade here. And that's a benefit of it, you know, you're very social, and again, you just want to be there to build something.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Absolutely. Yeah, you know what I miss the most. Um, it's been a long time since I've had my tools on. Um, but what I miss the most is at the end of heck, at lunch break and at the end of the day, I could turn around and look at what I did, look at what I accomplished. Like right now, today. Sometimes I'm like, damn it, I'm gonna have to rework that because it looks like mess. Um but like the further I got away from the work with promotions and whatever, like that went away. You don't get to see the results of your work that quickly. Um sometimes it's years, and and do you deal with that, or how does that manifest itself in with the leadership role that you have with the union?

SPEAKER_04 28:23

Uh yeah, it's you could be dealing with a problem. Um, I mean, right now the stock market is a mess. So we we've been dealing with a lot of problems with the pension and that we have and the annuity, trying to keep from losing as much, unfortunately. So you really don't see that right away. It's not like at the end of the day, you're tired, you're dirty, you're sweaty, you look up and go, oh look, that looks pretty good. We did a nice job. Here it's like, all right, we're sitting here, we're talking, we're strategizing and trying to make sure that the funds keep growing. Yep. And you know, it's like, all right, we'll wait till next quarter to see the results. It's like no, I I like immediate gratification, you know, that's what I that's my job. I can see exactly what I did. Not oh, I'm not gonna wait another 90 days to see what happens. So it is, it's stressful. But that's where that comes in, you know, knowing what has happened over the years. So you, you know, sometimes you can do the same mistakes over and over again. But if you remember that, oh, we tried it this time and the market was doing the same thing, it didn't work. Let's try a different route. But no, that I that stuff is hard for me not to see an immediate result, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Yes, oh you and you that was a perfect backdrop for that conversation because man, it there's serious consequences, yeah. Right, and and you make a decision, you just gotta let it play out, and that ain't fun. No, not today's market, no, not at all. Believe me, I've been checking them out, like, oh god, like leave it alone, just leave it alone. I don't need to make any vegetable moves yet.

SPEAKER_04 30:08

Oh my goodness. This is a president, you know, you're not just looking at your finances, you're looking at from every family within that local's finances.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Oh, that's that's a ton of responsibility. So I imagine that brings some degree of stress, um, maybe a lot. How do you how do you handle what do you do to manage that stress, to like make sure that you're healthy and you're filling your own cup?

SPEAKER_04 30:35

Uh I step away every so often. I'll take a long weekend, go with my family upstate, and spend some time with the rest of my family, or we'll go on vacations, just take a drive and go somewhere. But you do, you have to check out every so often and shut down those thoughts and just recharge those batteries. You really do.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Yes, that's what I do. It's man, it's a habit that I've been I've gotten pretty good at it lately. Um, but man, most of my career I it was just like I could not take time off. I would not take time off until I have one boss, Wesley Baker. Oh, no, no, no, maybe it was Tom. Tom had pointed out, it's like, Jess, you realize that you get sick every four to six weeks. I'm like, what do you mean get sick? He's like, Yeah, every four to six weeks, you disappear for like a day or two. I'm like, no, I don't. He's like, and he had a calendar. He's like, Yeah, you do. Look right here, right? Like, oh wow. Oh wow. And like, well, I have vacation time. He's like, no, it's like, yes, you do, Jess, but here's here's the problem is you're working the burnout, and you don't have to burn out. Like, what you need to do is start scheduling time to take time like on purpose, yeah. Take time off and have fun, go relax, and you're burnt out. I'm like, he's like, What do you do? I was like, nothing. I just turn off my phone, turn off the computer, and lay down and and wait till I feel better. He's like, Yeah, man, that's not that's not vacation, bro.

SPEAKER_04 32:04

No, that's not well. I I tell you, when I was younger and I was just trying to make a name for myself and the business, and and that I would do the same thing. I would go until one day I woke up, I can't go to work today, I just don't have the energy, yeah, and just sleep all day. And I was like, this this isn't living, this is you know, surviving. Yeah, so in the last few years, I do. I take um, I make sure I take time for myself. A few days off, don't answer the phone, leave the computer at home. And even if we just you know take a drive to Pennsylvania and just look at the leaves turn. I mean, that's just enough. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't have to be a trip to another country, it could be in your own neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Yeah, just change your environment, unplug, leave all the garbage at the house and go for man, that's beautiful. I love it. Yeah, I'm gonna have to find so here in here in San Antonio, it's green or it's brown, like we don't have a lot of colors, but you know, the hill country's nice. I maybe that's what I need to do. Get my bike and bicycle. Let me be clear bicycle, have a bicycle. Uh go hiking, yeah, yeah. Nice walk in the woods, yeah. Yes, oh, that's the good stuff. Yeah, how about I I'm pretty sure Texas ain't the only place struggling with this. How is the the market with apprentices and getting new folks into the into your trade?

SPEAKER_04 33:35

Uh surprisingly, it's not that easy. I mean, a year ago we opened up our apprenticeship, we had uh 250 applications to give out, and I think we gave out 170. And I was amazed. Whoa, that yeah, yeah. I was amazed that we didn't give out all of them and have people banging on the door for more. Wow. Yeah, I I was shocked. I was shocked. I don't know, maybe it's this new canceled culture. I don't know. My niece started telling me about it, and I was like, I you can't live your life canceling things you don't like, you know. I don't know. I don't know, but I I yeah it was hard. It was hard keeping the apprenticeship going these last few years because that last list was so low. But prior to that, we were giving everything out and people were still knocking on the door trying to get in. Wow. Maybe COVID had something to do with the step back from working.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Yeah, I wish it was a simple problem, but I think it's a super complicated problem. Um, I mean, I know me when when I entered apprenticeship back in '95, there weren't a lot of people in apprenticeship. And like my first year of apprenticeship, I was the youngest guy's 18, and everybody else was like 25 and up. Um, and I'm like, what is like this is good for me because they're all older than me. So that means they're gonna retire before me. So by the time we get then, I'm gonna make a lot of money. Like simple math, and it was true, it worked out. Uh, and and it does it seem everywhere I go, I've been able to travel, you know, the country, work on the East Coast, West Coast, Central United States, and with general contractors, and they they celebrate, yeah, we got the job. And right after they celebrate getting the job, like, damn it, who's gonna build it? Because people getting people is has been a challenge, and it's like this constantly growing challenge to get new people into the industry, and that's part of the reason for the podcast, right? So that we can show them like the human side of amazing people like you out there and share the experience and like not just the cussing, sweating, struggling side of it, but there's also some other really great things about it. Uh, and I feel like we all got to do something to make this thing better because there's just more and more construction happening, amazing careers and opportunities like yourself taking serving in a in a big, big way, helping a lot of families and a lot of people that I just think people aren't aware about. They don't they think we just kind of I'm a plumber, so I show up with my plunger and I plunge all day. It's like that. Oh, there's so much more going on, right? Um, so many more opportunities. Okay, so here comes the um the revealing question, Mr. Uh, you know, you've got some years, you've been out there in the field, you've you've served in some pretty influential roles, and I imagine along the way you've had maybe one or two learnings and missteps. So the question is what is a significant learning you had as a result of a painful misstep?

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Uh I would say it was uh maybe 10, 15 years ago, there was an opportunity for me to be a super for a company. Uh and um at that time I was still, you know, on I I knew I could do the job. I didn't know if I had what it took to be a super at the time.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

And um as it was going on, a few people came up to me and said, Oh man, I know it was just getting good. And here I am breaking up the flow again. But I can't help myself. If you want the rest of this tasty morsel of goodness, head on over to our YouTube channel and look for the Backstage Pass playlist. You're gonna find this one and a whole library of previous backstage passes, where our guests share like super intimate stuff, like ultimate cheat codes for self-discovery and personal growth. There's a lot of value there for you and for any youngins, any of the younglings in your life. And if you want to get this fire, this backstage pass fire before anybody else does, go on over to learninsandmissteps.com, hit the become a member button, do all the stuff you need to do, select a thing, but everybody that becomes a patron will get first access to every single backstage pass that we record going forward. And just in case you missed it, those funds are gonna contribute to enhancing the image of careers in the trade. 80% of that is gonna be going to Skilled Trades Alliance. The other 20%, the learnings and missteps, is gonna keep that to pay taxes and do some other things. Um, we are blessed and we are fortunate, and we are here to spread the love and share the wealth with people that are carrying the same mission and demonstrating the behaviors that we see. Okay, that's enough. Now we're going back to the show piece. So with that big lesson you had, what uh what advice would you have for for somebody in a similar situation? Because you know it's happening right now. Like, no doubt, somebody's living through that right now. What would you counsel them on how to deal with that situation?

SPEAKER_04 39:22

Well, being today's day and age, there are more women in the trades right now, and a lot more women that are taking on foremans roles and um heads of companies. So, what I would say is seek out those women. You know, go talk to them, ask their opinion, you see what they've lived through and what they've done, and if they had any advice for you going forward. I mean, back then when I was there, I was the only woman in in the local, and um I was under yeah, you're you're kind of under a microscope. Everything you do is amplified, whether it's right or wrong. It's bigger than it is, you know. So that's what it was at that time. So with now today's day and age, um I I'm on a job right now where every other person is a woman, it seems like. I mean, there's so many, and I I uh to me it's amazing to see that, and it actually is fun. Yeah, yeah. There were days when I was the only woman on the job altogether. So nowadays you have those people around you to go talk to.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Yeah, yes. Yeah, I remember being on job years, it was like years and years. Man, I it was it had to have been eight years. Her name was Debbie before I worked with a woman on a job site. Like the first eight years of my career in in commercial plumbing, no ladies. Like there might have been a lady in the office, uh in the trail, but like out there doing like building with us, right? It was nobody, and then Debbie, and man, she had it going on, and and now there's a significant difference in the companies, uh like the general contractors and the trades. They'll have like a high concentration of women, very diverse um workforce, and others still don't, like they're still they're still you know playing that game. We got a long way to go in terms of providing facilities, like respectable facilities just for the men and the women. When I say facilities, I'm talking about like porta potties, right? And somewhere to eat, like where can I go take care of my business and where can I eat? And often the those spaces aren't great, and then factor in like for a lady, like that's we got a lot, we got a lot of work to do, we got a ton of work to do in that regard. But there are some amazing organizations and amazing leaders out there that are making that happen. Man, I just got to ask this question. So being like the sole woman out on the jobs for a long time, um, having the kind of influence and responsibility, serving for the union, having offices within the union, I I can only imagine that that felt lonely for a long period of time.

SPEAKER_04 42:17

I it did. It did um well, there was another woman uh was part of another local, and we became friendly. So it was good. We had we could talk to each other, we bounce ideas off each other, we'd call and just vent.

SPEAKER_05 42:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:34

Yeah. Or, you know, vent and then talk, you know, about everything else, everything besides work and all that. That was good. And then when she retired, there was a little bit of a gap between another woman being within my trade, and it really was. It was like, you know, you you can't call up. I mean, the gentlemen, the men I work with are great. There's not too many that aren't. There are excellent men, but you you a woman talking to a woman is a lot different than a woman talking to a man, you know? And it's like men talking to men, they're not gonna talk the same way with a woman, so there it's different. So it was at that point in time when she retired. And it really was. It was like, what am I doing here? I'm like, should I stay? And then I did the math, and I was like, all right, you got you know 10 years to go and you could get a pension and get another career, but you know, don't let that pension go. Is what I was thinking. And so yeah, there was a point in time where it was, and now right now in our local, we got a few more women coming in and it's actually getting good. Now I'm kind of the mentor now. Oh stepping into that other role and it it feels weird, but it it's nice. It's nice because when they come to me and they they ask stuff or they talk about stuff, it was like, you know, I've been through that. I've been through that, and my friend helped me understand what was going on there. Well, let's sit down and talk here, and uh it's my new role now. It it's it's strange, I don't feel that old. But I am, so I have to deal with it.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Now you're the wise one, right? That offered all these important advice. That's just that's just kind of how things go. I remember I was the hot shot for a long time, and then all of a sudden, I'm like everybody's asking me questions like, man, why are you always asking me? Like, well, you know everything, you've been here forever. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, slow down. But that's I mean, that's it, right? I mean, our purpose in my mind, our purpose is humans on this rock. Is to learn and share our experiences to help others, right? Live in service to others, and everything else just kind of works out.

SPEAKER_05 44:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Um, how do you feel when you see a young apprentice or young lady really thriving in the trades and in this environment? Someone that you've been supporting or coaching along the way.

SPEAKER_04 45:00

Oh, I feel great. I feel great. You know, I I it makes my day. I I just smile from ear to ear when I see that they're thriving, they're making a good living, they're getting shit done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:13

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

Well, that's what you do. That's what you do. Man, I I'm thank you for being on the show with us. Uh you're an amazing human being. I hope this thing blows up. So we're gonna turn round third base here and start sliding into home. So this question is what footprint do you want to leave on the world?

SPEAKER_04 45:40

Uh on the world. I I I was just looking in my corner of it. But um, I just wanted to leave the footprint that um somebody that looks like like me, maybe isn't that loud, a very quiet kind of introvert. Um, give a chance, get a chance in this little in in the trades, really, you know, in construction. Um I might not look like I, you know, when when I first started in the business, I'd walk on a job and people would be like, oh God, why did I get stuck with her? She doesn't look like she could pick up uh, you know, uh a tool, let alone use it. Uh I just want to leave that footprint and yeah, you don't have to look like the big tough person. Um you can be able to go into the trades and uh learn your way through it and become productive and just kind of you know have some, you know, have some be somebody that somebody could look up to.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Oh, that's beautiful. Yes. Well, I've only known you for a very short period of time, Ms. Carol, and you are somebody that I look up to. I mean, the things that you've overcome and you've persevered through, I I can only relate, empathize to a small degree because you know, I've never been the only one. And being the only one ain't easy, and then taking on the responsibilities that you've taken on, just kind of thrown into them. Again, that coupled with being the only one and having very little people that look like me. I mean, I'm in San Antonio, Texas, so there are a lot of people that look like me, so it's a little easier overcoming those hurdles and just the fact that you've done it and you're still out there pushing. And having a positive, forward-looking mindset about it, like you didn't, it doesn't appear that you've let it make you bitter, it doesn't appear like you've let it steal any life from you. That's an accomplishment, sister. Like that's big time. Oh my goodness. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Um, so any any people you want to shout out?

SPEAKER_04 47:59

Uh, just the stone dark man rigors of local 197, New York City.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Let's keep building, let's do it. That was Miss Carol Raftery, and I'm pretty sure that you got as moved about our industry and about the work that we're doing as I did when I was listening. When I when I had the privilege of like interviewing her and having that interaction live, y'all, what y'all don't know is we had some technical difficulties to get started, but true to true to form, she just pushed on through and and we made it happen, finally got on, and she was cool as a cucumber. Someday I am going to meet her and shake her hand. And so now it's time for the LM family shout out. And this one goes to Mr. Armando Dunales, who I'm probably gonna be hanging out with here in the next week or so. Armando says, I met a dude named Jesse a few months back, and my life hasn't been the same since. I learned the guy is vulnerable and has helped me to be a maker happener. And if there is anything to aspire to, y'all, it is to be a maker happener. There are all kinds of things out there in the world that need your gifts and talents. Um, and you have them. And all you got to do is apply them just a little bit, and through the process of applying them over and over and over again, getting better, you too will be a maker happener. So thank you, Mr. Armando. We'll be seeing you soon. And to the rest of the LM family, we love you. Leave us some comments on any of the socials, and we will be digging through them to give you a shout out for sure. Appreciate y'all. We'll talk again soon. Peace. Man, you are one dedicated listener, sticking with us all the way through to the very, very end. Please know that this podcast dies without you. And we invite you to share how the episode is impacting you, along with your thoughts, questions, and suggestions. You have been gracious with your time, so we added social media links in the show notes to make it super easy for you to connect with us. Be kind to yourself, stay cool, and we'll talk at you next time.