Josh Zolin on The Value of Skilled Trades for the Youth Today

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Your background in being a stunt man, did that have an impact on your insurance rates?

SPEAKER_02 0:09

That's a really good question. That's funny. Uh it in in LA, yeah, that that was all covered under under the screen actors guild.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

So I was all I was all set there. Uh but yeah, that's that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Yeah, I mean that you know there's some risk, there's uh an indicator of high risk tolerance. I would imagine, you know, maybe some people are maybe you don't have to put that on the application anymore. So going from being a stunt man like straight up, Hollywood, and and going into the trades. What did that path look like?

SPEAKER_02 0:49

Oh yeah, that was uh that was a lot of um pride swallowing. Listen, I um growing up being a stunt man, right? I mean, even when I was a teenager, that's kind of what set me apart.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Dang, I think I got that hook in ya. So, Josh, he's an author. Uh he's a former stunt man, he's a business owner, he's a leader, he's also a podcaster. Both his book and his podcast are titled Blue is the New White. After you listen to this whole episode, go check him out. Follow, give him a follow. He's all like on the LinkedIn and the social media stuff. And Renee, Renee is with us. It always makes me happy to have hang out with our co-host and my baby brother, my hero Renee. And I'm not sure if he was grumpy or what happened, but man, he was asking some questions. He had Josh and even I squirming there a bit. Renee actually challenged us about whether Josh and I still qualify as blue-collar workers, given that we don't exactly put our hands on the work anymore. I I'm gonna side with Josh on this one, in that we absolutely are. So you'll get to hear that banter back and forth. Josh also talks about, you know, given the list of accomplishments and contributions that he's made in his life, he credits that to taking responsibility and offer some advice around putting yourself out there when you want to be considered for that leadership role or that new opportunity. You've got to voice that and you'll get some more details about that. And for all my hiring managers out there, y'all know this life where you need to hire somebody and you really need somebody like right now, but you also want to make sure that you hire the right person who's gonna be a contributor to the team uh that's focused on learning and growing and developing themselves. And so Josh drops some nuggets on us in terms of what he did and some of the lessons he learned uh in making great hires and less than great hires. We also got to give a shout out to our supporters out there. Shout out to Construction Ache Solutions, Mr. Adam Hoot signed up, and he's now a patron on our patreons.com slash learners and missteps. Appreciate you, my man. Love you, wish you nothing but the best. And here we go. So what's going on? We got Mr. Josh Zolin today. How you doing, Mr. Josh?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

I'm doing good, Jesse. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Oh man, having fun. I got uh I've got a little, I don't know, my equilibrium's off a little. I woke up this morning and and I'm kind of bouncing off the walls a little. Um I you know, walking to get coffee, I kind of took a I took the scenic route, kept kind of leaning the one. Yeah, it's a little, but it's okay because I'm sitting down now as long as I don't move too fast.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

It makes life fun, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Oh, it does it adds some excitement. It did, it added a little uh color to to to making me some coffee. Renee, you doing good today?

SPEAKER_05 3:58

I've been better. Uh the snooze button kind of beat me up a little bit this morning, kind of threw me off my routine. Yeah, like I like to I like to wake up at 4:30 and then you know get my pre-workout mixed and then go to the gym, but I pressed the snooze so I didn't wake up till like 5 40. And then I go to the gym and I have my my little freaking QR code that lets me in, right? Well, then my phone's dead. It's the QR code's on my freaking phone. So yeah, so I missed the gym and I'm already drank my pre-workout, so I'm all void rage. And I just have to do something at home, and I'm all disgruntled.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Yeah, yeah. So your whole day is just out of whack, huh? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:51

I'm not gonna leave the house at all or get into an accident or something.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

I'm feeling a theme here, Josh. You're feeling a little under the weather, and you still said, heck, I'm coming, I'm showing up.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Yeah, looks like uh all of us did.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yeah, no kidding. So apologies to the LM family. We're a little off, but we love you, and that's why we're gonna we're gonna power through it this morning.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

So, Josh, yeah, you you were gracious and let me be on your podcast, which was it was a it was a revealing and meaningful conversation, and I appreciate that very much. Uh, would you mind telling our our our folks about your podcast and the efforts that you've been uh I mean you've been carrying the torch for for quite a while now.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Uh yeah, well, I mean, I I wouldn't say carrying the torch, you know, it's just a it's a little passion project of mine, but uh uh but of course, so in in 2019, um, you know, I published a book called uh Blue is the New White, um, the best path to success that nobody told you about until now. Um, and it was a it was a huge success, right? It was adopted into a bunch of high schools, um, talking about the importance of the skilled trades and uh kind of trying to change this perception, right, that the skilled trades are a second rate career, um, and that there's a ton of different opportunities and benefits and and uh trajectories that that nobody really knows exists because we're always taught to go down the white-collar path, right? We're just taught to go to college, university, and everything else. You might as well be driving for Uber or something, you know. Um, and no no offense to anybody that's driving for Uber. Uh that's you know, I'm just saying, you know, but uh uh so anyway, that that you know, the response I got from the book was was phenomenal. So um I thought what I would do is uh spin off a podcast and and talk to a lot of these people that I'm talking about, uh right, who have found success in the skilled trades. So um, you know, that over the next year and a half or so, uh I'd talk to over a hundred, over a hundred different people now in uh in the skilled trades, just talking about their uh their successes, their failures, their learnings, their missteps, you know. Um but really just you know why it is that they love uh what they do. And I think it's a it's an important narrative to push. Um, you know, when we're we're trying to set the nation's youth up for success, you know, um it's important they know there's more than one way.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Oh my god, a hundred percent. And that that's where you and I I resonated or felt connected with you and your message because there's more than one way. There there are several ways. Uh, but there's one heavy message out there, and we need to we need to band together and and overcome that. I don't know if I told you this when you interviewed me on your show, um, but when Renee and I were brainstorming in the creative phase of the podcast, um, we're doing some research. And so I was looking for this type of, you know, how many people are out there doing this type of conversation around careers in the industry. And yours was the only one I could find at the time.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

And I was like, okay, I need to listen to it because I didn't want to uh I didn't want to mimic like copy, but I wanted to see, okay, what's the message, what's that sound like, um, and and get a good like it was a frame of reference, right? Some guidance and um look for some other ones, but there's there's not a bunch of them. There's there are construction or trades-related podcasts, but not necessarily interviewing people and talking about the career, the career options out there specifically, right? So I was like, oh man, I gotta connect and I don't know, through a string of events, you and I ended up connecting for me to be on your show, and then it's like, bro, you gotta come on mine pretty, pretty, please. Uh and now we're here, which is pretty darn awesome. Uh, so it was uh Blue is the new white. That's the name of the book and the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Awesome. So LM family members, check them out, share it with your youngsters out there, give them a new perspective on the amazing things that are available out here in this industry, uh, or in the trades. So, Josh, what what else should uh the LM family know about you?

SPEAKER_02 9:32

That's weird. You're gonna make me brag about myself, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Come on, baby.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

Uh I don't know. Um, well, one thing that uh people usually find interesting is before I was in the trades, I was a stunt stunt man. Oh, so um cool. Yeah, so uh I kind of try to tie that into my story, you know. Growing up, uh I grew up on a farm in Kenosh, Wisconsin, right? Of all places. And uh uh, but my my parents had converted that farm into a stunt school because my grandfather and my uncles and all that, uh they were kind of the pioneers in the stunt industry, right? My my grandfather doubled for Charles Bronson, and uh he was, you know, in a lot of the old uh uh television series like uh Danger Island, Banana Splitz Hour, he was Chongo. Um, you know, it was it it it it's it's uh kind of that was the family business, right? If you will. So uh uh so before I got into the trades, like I knew I wasn't gonna go to college, right? Because I was gonna be a stunt man.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

You know, so uh so yeah, after after high school, I hightailed it out west and uh spent a couple of years in Hollywood uh doing doing stunts for the big screen and then uh then moved to Arizona and started working on ovens.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

No, that is that's a that's a that's a leap. I you know, I just realized you're in Arizona, so it's 6 a.m. for you. 7. Oh, 7. Okay, so one hour.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Okay, well, we don't change time. That's that's screws screws everybody up.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah, that's what's great for me.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Stays even, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

So on the stunts, how difficult was it for you to, or rather, your background in being a stunt man, did that have an impact on your insurance rates?

SPEAKER_02 11:35

That's a really good question. That's funny. Uh it in in LA, yeah, that that was all covered under under the Screen Actors Guild.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

So I was I was all I was all set there.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Uh but yeah, that's that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Yeah, I mean, you know, there's some risk, there's uh an indicator of high risk tolerance. I would imagine, you know, maybe some people maybe you don't have to put that on the application anymore. Uh that's a great story. So going from stunt from being a stunt man, like straight up, Hollywood, and and going into to the trades, what what would what did that path look like?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Oh yeah, that was uh that was a lot of um pride swallowing, if you will. You know, I listen, I um growing up being a a stunt man, right? I mean, even when I was a teenager, that's kind of what set me apart, you know. So uh I hung my hat on that for for a long time. You know, that was like that's what made me cool, guys. Like that was that was my ego, right? It was hey, I was the kid that could jump off buildings, roll cars, and light myself on fire. What can you do? You know what I mean? And so uh, and you know, that was me being young, uh, but uh that carried into uh when I moved out west. And um honestly, it wasn't wasn't me. Uh it was again, it was just it was my ego. So it was tough when I uh uh when I made the decision to to leave the business. And I made the decision to leave the business because there was a couple of things. Number one, I I hated the bureaucracy of of everything in in the industry, right? I I was an entrepreneur at heart, and I I that's that's what I loved. And uh, you know, I knew that being a stump man, I would never be more than just a crash dummy for somebody who was deemed more important than I was. And I just, you know, I I it that was hard for me to swallow, you know. Uh so that and then I looked around and I saw my uncles, my grandfather, and everybody's limping around, you know. Everybody's everybody's got these aches and these pains, and you know, well, I it makes sense, right? I mean, all we do is throw ourselves around for a living. So um, so I you know, in the meantime, like uh when I moved out to LA, my dad had simultaneously gotten out of the stump business because he was in the stump business too. He got out of the stump business and uh moved to Arizona and started uh Windy City, uh the company that I that I run now. And um, you know, and so when I left LA, um, it was just him at the time, right? Fixing uh commercial restaurant equipment. Just him in a little truck running, running around and and stuff. So I uh so I called him up one day and I just said, hey dad, I I got no idea what you do for a living, uh, but I want to be a part of it. You know, I'm done, I'm done here in LA. And uh, and that was that was that. So, you know, that was the transition. It wasn't easy, it was hard to give up because it's you know what I knew my entire life. Um but uh I'm glad I did.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah, so you're you're thriving now. I mean, I see you posted on LinkedIn, you're speaking at national events, and and I mean, you're all over the place. Um how long did it take? Or yeah, what was the time gap between you getting into commercial equipment and then realizing that you had a a message to get out there and making that happen?

SPEAKER_02 15:28

Um, that's a good question. So let's see, it was uh 2008, uh I believe when I got when I left LA and I came here, and I didn't know the first thing about the trade, right? I had no idea that this trade even existed. Uh so I spent about 10 years learning it, right, and helping my dad grow the business. But it was the first thing was my dad's super old school, right? You gotta understand he's super old school. So uh there were no handouts, there was nothing given to me, there was you know, nothing like that. It was hey, if you want to be a part of this business, you know, you gotta settle up in these overalls and get out here, turn the wrenches, you know. Come on, Hollywood boy, let's go. And yeah, you know, and so which which I appreciate a lot, and because it it really that's what kind of opened my eyes, right? So I I realized to answer your question, um, I realized the opportunities uh that existed probably somewhere around 2014 when we started bringing on more employees. Yep. Um and and when, you know, when I started seeing what these guys were making, seeing what I was up against, you know, trying to bring them in and people that have worked other places, and they're like, hey, you know, this is what I was being uh offered at this other place. And I'm like, what? Are you are you serious? And um so I that's when I first realized that I couldn't do anything about it though, until about 2018 when I started writing the book. And then so, you know, at that point we had grown the business big enough to where you know I had a little bit of free time. Uh, you know, when I say a little bit of free time, I mean like between the hours of 11 and 12 at night to sit down and put some the pencil to the paper. But um yeah, so at that point it was it was that, hey, why doesn't anybody know this? What can I do to help? It was actually my wife, you know, that I credit with the book because she knew that I had always wanted to write a book, just never knew what I wanted to write a book about. And I was always bitching about, oh sorry, I don't know if I can you're good, you're good. I was always I was always complaining about how uh you know there's no literature on the skilled trades, and I wish more people knew about it. And I can't believe this stuff isn't in high schools and blah blah blah. And she's like, Well, you shut up and just write that. Oh, okay. Yeah, all right, that makes sense. So, yeah, that's so so that's was that uh uh uh uh answer to your question. I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yes, yes, it it it it kind of paints the picture of what it's like how you got there, you saw a gap, um and were frustrated by it, driven by the real experience of trying to get people in and how few there were. And and here the here's the magical thing, Renee. Take notes. Like there's a lot of things that bug us and that we'll complain and piss and moan about, but if you don't take action upon it, it's gonna stay the same. And complaining is is complaining and worrying are like sitting in a rocket chair, a rocking chair and going as fast as you can. But it doesn't accomplish anything, right? You just spend a lot of damn energy, and so I had uh uh uh Ed Ed Mauricio, he was a pipe fitter, I was his helper for a few years, and that dude, I mean I'm a plumber by trade, but I lucked out and got paired up with him, and he and I worked together for about two years. I was a like my second and third year of apprenticeship, and that dude laid some wisdom on me, all kinds of he opened my mind to a different way of ordering material, planning out my work, etc. But the one thing, well, one of the ideas he planted in my head was don't complain about anything you're not prepared to take action on. That simple. I was like, yeah, but you know, I was a frustrated young man wanting to, you know, take on the world, and and I was complaining all the time. He's like, Okay, so what are you gonna do about it? Like, what do you mean? Like, it's not my fault. He's like, You gotta stop. Like, if you ain't gonna take action on it, don't complain about it because you're just wasting energy. Um, and so from what you just described, that's what I hear, right? Your wife said, like, bro, write the book. Here's your subject matter. Like, come on, it's consuming your mind, and I'm tired of hearing about it.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

She said, but that's right. Pretty much verbatim, actually.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Oh now, in your in your years coming into the trade, building a business, um interviewing over a hundred people, what themes are there any themes or similarities you've seen or heard from the various conversations and stories that you've been uh part of?

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Yeah. Yeah, it's uh the one theme. Okay, so there's two actually. So the two things that uh are common amongst almost everybody that I've talked to is number one, they don't do it for the money. And number two, uh, it's always in one way, shape, or form um the the the biggest reward that they get is helping people. Um, which I I thought was interesting. You know, there's there's been a couple of outliers, you know. Some people have been like, yeah, I love the money, money's great, you know, which it is, and that's that's good. But most people that I've talked to, uh, you know, they they go beyond the money, right? They they all say the same thing. Money is a great catalyst, um, money is necessary, you know, to provide security to your family and this and that. But at the end of the day, you know, this is this is what I define success as, and it's not money. Um you know, so I think that's great. I think that's telling. Um, and I've talked to a lot of different people, young and old, um, you know, and and that narrative is uh uh is is constant. It. So uh it's just it's very interesting. And then the helping people, right? I think that's a great testament to just the skilled trades in in itself and and you know what what they're designed to do. Um and that's what I talk about, right? I mean, you look out your window and you know, you can't throw a rock without hitting something that was a result of the skilled trades. And uh, you know, at the end of the day, that all that is to help people. You know, I just said in a uh in a uh talk I gave for um an organization last week that uh you know if if we want to start uh attracting more people into the industry, we need to start talking about the skilled trades in a different light, right? We don't build roads, we connect cities. You know what I'm saying? We we uh this my my sickness is gonna cloud my head here, but uh um you know we don't we don't fix AC, we keep people comfortable, right? And that you we have to change the way that we look at it, but at the end of the day, it's all about helping people, connecting people. Um, and that's that's the common narrative that I see.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

You know, that's you there's uh you you're familiar with the hierarchy of needs, yeah. Uh uh security is at the bottom, and then self-actualization is at the top. I don't know all the stuff in the middle, but I know that. And I think there's something there, right? Like in our industry, in the trades, financially, you're gonna make some money. Right? Like, if if Renee would have stayed in the job that we connected him with early on as a sheet metal apprentice, he'd be making a lot more money right now, today. But you know, he had some learnings and missteps to go through.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

And he probably wouldn't hit that snooze button either. How about him, got him?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

So you come into the trades, make a um a generous living, right? The the compensation in the trades, it's not pennies, it's it's real money. And so now you you have this income that helps you establish the the security, which is a direct line to self-actualization. And I think you're a perfect example of that. The self-actualization or a point now you're out there sharing your knowledge and your wisdom and and getting people to to calibrate their thinking around the careers and the opportunities in our industry. And and the theme that you picked up on with all the people that you've talked to is yeah, the money's good, but I get to help people. And we, I think, as as humans, it's going to be difficult to be even thinking about anybody else until our fundamental needs are taken care of. And the trades help that happen. Now, if this is me, I'm the case study in this comment. This next comment is it's very easy to spend that money on stuff that's not healthy.

SPEAKER_04 25:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

I did that for a long time. Uh, it took me a couple of rounds to say, wait a minute, like where'd all my money go? Like, oh, I drank it all. Um so it took me a while to mature and get that under control. But once I did that, started, you know, putting money away and and making smart moves with my money, it led me down a path to start seeing other things and and dive deeper into helping people. 100%. That's I do things, I don't work in the trades anymore. I'm still in the industry, but I help people more and more and discovered that that was what that was the most important thing for me. Uh, because it's healing and it also contributes, and it's just this perpetual energy that continues to build.

SPEAKER_05 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Renee, you still awake over there?

SPEAKER_05 26:01

Yeah, yeah, I'm awake. So uh I got I want to change gears a little bit. I got a couple of questions with a curveball at the end. Okay, so what was when you left Hollywood um and you got into your skill trade? What was your skill trade and what did the work entail?

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Uh good question. So uh the skill trade was uh uh commercial kitchen equipment repair. So ovens, fryers, stoves, uh all all we did was hot side equipment, right? It was just me and my dad. Um and it was it stemmed from his work after he got out of the stump business. He uh worked at a bakery uh for a long time. He was a foreman of a bakery, right? So he took the his bakery knowledge, which is you know basically restaurant equipment times a hundred, yeah, and uh, you know, kind of scaled it back a little bit and then continued learning uh from that. Now, the the funny thing about commercial kitchen equipment is there's not necessarily a trade school for it. Um, so you have to either learn it yourself or uh you have to have, you know, uh you have to do an apprenticeship or something of that nature. There's there's one association out there called Safesta that has some courses and stuff like that, but it's not always super easy to get in. Not a ton of people know about it. Um, and uh there's only one location that you can actually uh do the learning. So it's uh it it was very interesting. Um and to ask what it entails, so that's that's funny. Um because I I talk about this in my book a lot, right? Is that it was uh it was disgusting. All right, I don't know how else to say it. Listen, and and I say that, but like some jobs were better than others, obviously. But um, you know, you go into some places, and of course I'm not gonna name any names, but you know, you go into some places and it's like, oh hey, my fryer's not working, you know, and you pull it out and there's like chicken wings on the floor from seven or eight years ago, and you're like, come on, man. You know, I and my dad, again, he's old school, right? And he thinks this shit is funny. So, so you know, he's like, All right, you know, we got to change the gas hose out on this fryer. So get in there, son. You know, don't don't be afraid. So, you know, we're pulling out these fryers, and this was I I remember this job specifically, right? But um we pulled out the fryers and um it's just like caked. The walls and the floor are caked with grease, right? God knows how old this grease was, right? And I'm over there in the back, you know, with with uh with a pipe wrench on uh on the on the gas hose, right? I'm bracing myself somewhere else because the floor is like ice. And and I try to give it one one turn, right? Completely slip, end up on my back like a fish out of water, you know, just flopping around in this grease, like trying to stand up. You know, I'm caked head to toe. And he's just over there laughing, like, you know, you luckily get paid by the hour, kid.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Come on. But yeah, and and I mean, you know, that's that's the worst of the worst circumstance. You know, there was I enjoyed a lot of the work too, when it wasn't as disgusting as that. Like we got to work on a lot of pizza ovens, like the uh uh the conveyor ovens and stuff like that. Um, and that was a lot of fun because there's a ton of electronic components involved. Um, so you got solenoid valves, you got controllers, you've got modulating valves, you got uh, you know, ignition modules, and all and and trying to to figure out and learn how all this stuff communicates with one another in order to create this combustion and in this oven and regulate temperature. So that part of it was a lot of fun. Uh I got a lot of satisfaction uh from that because it was problem solving, right? Yes, and and again, you know, you go back to helping people, and and Renee, there's nothing better, you know, on a Friday night when you get a call from that that guy whose whose life is to run his pizza joint and he doesn't have any ovens until you get there, you fix it, and he practically hugs you and says, Thank you, thank you. Now I can feed my family. It's like all right, I I get it. I get it now.

SPEAKER_05 30:46

Yeah, that's nice. Okay, so you you said that it seemed like you were like talking in the past tense, like you said you enjoyed the work. So I'm assuming you're not doing that anymore, like at least to make money.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

No, I'm not in the field anymore. I still uh I I run the company, uh, but I'm I'm CEO now, and uh everyone makes fun of me because I'm I'm a cushy, cushy desk all day, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:16

Okay, so I asked this question to Jesse a couple of months back. Um, so we were talking. So let me ask you this before I get into that. So, what do you define as a trade? What is trade work to you?

SPEAKER_02 31:34

That's a good question. Um I have a little bit different definition than most people. Uh how I define uh a trade or a skilled trade is anything that uh requires education uh that isn't formal education, isn't it? I'm sorry, anything that requires formal education that isn't college or university. Okay, so um, so that would that would be like plumbers, uh electricians, uh commercial food service technicians, but also things like uh uh dental hygienists, um realtors, uh, you know, there's there's so it groups a couple of different categories in together. Now I usually talk, I and then I split that up by blue-collar skilled trades is you know kind of the stuff that we usually talk about. Uh, but that's how I define skilled trade.

SPEAKER_05 32:36

Okay. So I have another question. So is there is there a point on the organizational chart of a trade company, right? Let's say let's let's simplify it to like plumbing of a plumbing company. Is there a point where you know you're all you're the top CEO and the bottom is like uh service helper plumber? Is there a point on the organizational chart where it's no longer a trade job? No. Why? Why not?

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Well, I guess I guess you know that's a good question, Renee. Ooh, because now now you're making me think. I thought I had the answer.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

He warned you, he warned you in the video.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

He did warn no, um, okay, so I guess I guess it it depends, um, is is my answer, right? Because uh the size of the organization will come into play, because at a uh at a certain point in a corporate evolution, right, it's it's gonna take a little bit of a turn as to who comes into the business and how. Um whereas uh a grassroots company, right, like mine, who is who's grown over the years and grown with the people in it and been selective about the people that come come in it, um you know what am I doing? How am I trying to frame this? So yeah, I think um oh man, Renee, I want to slow clap you. No, my brain's not working fast enough today. Um yes, no, I'm I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with, yeah, it's uh it's it's still considered a trade organization. Um no matter who's at the top or who's at the bottom. Um that was the question, right? Is it a trade job? Is that what what it was?

SPEAKER_05 34:48

So the the question was that at what point and is there a point in the organizational chart where it's no longer a trade? Like you're no longer considered a trade worker, I should say.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Okay, yeah, that's that's tough.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

You know what? I I identify as a trade worker, whether you like it or not.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

That's and maybe that's where I'm hung up, honestly, because you know, this is what I talk about on a daily basis, and this is what you know, uh this is what I came up in the company doing is turning the wrenches, you know. But at the end of the day, in my spot, is it is it a blue-collar spot or is it a white-collar spot? It's just really kind of what you're asking, right? You know, in that where in that hierarchy chart does that um does that change? And um, yeah, I think that if somebody comes up in the blue-collar world, they're always going to consider themselves blue collar, right, Jesse? But if they if they don't come up in the blue-collar world, right, and they and they land a spot in an organization after going to college, and you know, maybe other leadership roles, uh, management roles, that kind of stuff. They've never been in a blue-collar role, they won't consider themselves blue-collar just because they're running a blue-collar company. Um that's what I was trying to say for the past 25 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

That was good. And but I you know what I love. What I love is what we could see is the the conflict, right? Because you identify as a craft worker, because that's where you came up. Yeah, you're in a different role, and so that it's not like a separation. For you, you're still a craft worker, and for me, I'm still a plumber. Yeah, even though you know I got shiny boots now, I still identify as a plumber. Uh, and I've worked with and to your point, I've worked with you know, HR professionals, talent acquisitionists, uh, marketing professionals, financial managers. And as you were speaking, Josh, I'm like, oh wow, like that that's well said because they they would they make comments like, man, I wish I wish I had a skill like you. I wish I knew how to fix things and build things like like y'all. And in my mind, I'm like, I don't fix anything anymore. All I do is talk. But but I be it's the background, right? Yeah we we went through it and so we we have that and we we did the work, and now since we've done the work, regardless of what role we're serving in, we still identify as a craft worker, tradesman, blue-collar professional. Um, so Renee, two against one. We are craft workers, we're proud blue-collar professionals, whether you like it or not.

SPEAKER_05 37:40

Hey, well, it's 2021. We can identify as anything we want to. Shots fired. Oh, but okay, so let me give you where this question kind of cooked up in my head and been cooking up uh for a while now. So I'm I'm in the field, right? And I'm for sure. I question myself because I started off in my water company as a helper, doing the repairs, digging the trenches, getting muddy, sweaty, and whatever, right? And now I very rarely have to do that. And I'm just the guy that kind of shows up on site first. I'm the first responder uh for water and sewer emergencies for my um water utility company here in San Antonio. That's what I do. Um, so I basically just I'm like the quarterback, I just find out what's going on and I pass it on to the correct crew or correct uh department in our water company. That's it. I really don't I don't have to ever do repairs unless it's super minor and quick and I can just do it myself. And even then, I don't even have to. Nobody's expecting me to repair anything. I just do it because I've been there and I if I can take that job away from somebody else so they can work on something else more important, I'll do it. Right. But I don't nobody's even expecting me to do that. So I'm in this space and I'm like, man, you know, one more, one more promotion up, and now I'm completely out of the work. You know, I'm like, am I even a worker, like a blue-collar worker? Can I consider myself even a blue-collar worker anymore? You know, I'm barely that now, you know, just because I get my boots muddy once a week. Does that qualify me? You know, so I've been thinking about that, and on top of that, I've watched and watching, am watching people, good people, good, hard, hard-charging workers get really disgruntled and demotivated because they feel like they're getting passed up in certain promotions or are being led by people that have never seen the field in in ever, right? So it's like I mean, all of us here in this chat know the value of coming up from the helper side to where we're at now. We know that value, and for whatever reason, we didn't get disgruntled and throw in the tile. But I'm watching people that are good workers who would make awesome leaders in the future if they just stick it out because they're watching people like getting you know, X, Y, and Z degree, and they're now our director, and they've never seen the the field, or they're they're now our super our superintendent, even as low superintendent, they've never seen our work at all. Um, and they're calling the shots, right? So it's like, and then these guys are like, for what? Like, you know, why why why even try? Why even try hard? Why even work consistently? Why why not just do the bare minimum now? Because I'm gonna get passed up anyway. That's that's what I hear all the time, and I'm having a really difficult time uh convincing them, you know, that hey, you just keep sticking it out because they keep seeing this, and I'm having a hard time, you know. Um I don't I don't know what's the word to use, but you know, just I guess soothing them, other than it's the right thing, it's the moral thing to do, just to not quit, you know, but it's it's tough, it's a tough pill to swallow. Like, and I'll give you one more um example. Uh recently, we without getting too technical, uh our job, we have a team of like 17 guys. We all take the calls for water and sewer emergencies. Okay, well, we have to document our findings, right? And we document it and we send it off on this app we have, and data clerks come out behind us, they get what they need to get, and they um, you know, they kind of do the finishing chutzers, and then they send it off, and now it's like final. Our documents are final, they're finalized, and they're all good to go. Well, for whatever reason, this has been what this is what has been communicated to us is these data clerks don't want to do that anymore. They don't want to do that anymore, they don't want to finalize our work, so they're and they decided they're not, they're not, they're just not gonna do it. And so now we have to do it. Which it's fine with me, you know. I think sure, I mean, I'll do I my pride tells me I'll do your job and my job, you know, and I'm not gonna complain about it, and I'm gonna get more glory for it, too. So, whatever, you know, you don't want to give me a raise, I don't care. You know, I'm gonna be the only one not crying. So, whatever, right? That's gonna be good on me. But a lot of other people are really, really upset about that. And, you know, it's hard to calm that if they don't have that drive already to like say, fine, I will do it, I'll do your job and my job. A lot of people don't have that, and they're they're considering leaving, they're considering, you know, uh just turning into people that just do the bare minimum when they were otherwise great workers, you know what I'm saying? So what do we what do we tell these people, you know?

SPEAKER_02 43:23

That's uh that's that's that's heavy. Um we see it here too, right? I mean, in this industry, kind of on the same uh on the same wavelength uh of that, like service managers, for instance. You know, I have a lot of people come into my organization because the organization that they were previously with, oh, they hired a service manager that's never turned a wrench before. You know, he's straight out of college, you know, and he's never turned a wrench, and I just don't respect that. Because at the end of the day, that's what they're saying, right? Is that it's a respect thing. Um, so a couple of thoughts here. Uh number one, I'm a huge per uh personal responsibility guy, right? So I uh you can't convince me ever that it's okay to throw in the towel or to point the finger or to place the blame. I mean, you just you you won't do it, you know, and that goes for both sides, right? And when I say that, I mean, you know, if if these guys are coming in uh to your organization, for instance, and they don't have field uh experience, um, let me ask you this. Are they spending any time with those in the field? Are they are they making an effort um to earn that respect, or are they coming in thinking that it's uh that it's just owed to them?

SPEAKER_05 44:49

Um, I wouldn't go as far as say they think it's owed to them, but I personally never seen these people in the field or at all. I've just never even seen them at all ever. Like I've just never seen them.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

So that's that's number one, right? And and again, a lot of this stuff is is stuff that we're not gonna have control over. I'm just I'm just spitballing, you know. But um, so so I would say that you know, that's number one. Number two, you know, the the personal responsibility on on the side of uh you know the the guys that you're talking about is I mean, look, I'm I'm not trying to like, you know, blow smoke up your dress or anything, Renee, but you know, it's like they gotta act more like you. I mean, you know, they they just gotta bite the bullet and they gotta understand this is a pride thing, right? And uh um, you know, you were hired to do a job and you need to do that job 110%. And you know what? If you are interested in moving up, moving on, um, you've got to do anything and everything possible to enable that. And I don't know what they are or they're not doing. Uh, but I do know that for instance, you know, when I started learning this trade, um, you know, and and learning from my dad, you know, I he wasn't paying me shit, right? So I was I was making peanuts. And uh, and so I was delivering pizzas at night. I would get up at at uh uh five o'clock, four thirty, five o'clock in the morning, I would run service until about six o'clock at night. I would go deliver pizzas from eight o'clock to midnight, and then I'd get it, I'd get up and do the same thing again the next day. I did that for years, right? But what I also did though is, you know, I I whenever I would have to replace one of these parts, say in a fryer or an oven or a stove or whatever, if I ever had the opportunity, I would take one of those parts and I would bring it home and I would take it apart on the living room floor, to the dismay of my wife. You know, she hated it, obviously. The dogs would start licking the grease off the valves. It was terrible. But uh, but look, you know, in order for me to succeed, and it's a little bit different circumstance, right? But in order for me to succeed, I knew I needed all the knowledge that I could possibly gain, even above, you know, what my dad could provide me. Um, and this, you know, so that is just one example, but uh it's that personal responsibility that to go above and beyond, take that next step, really, you know, take that that craft, let people know where you want to be, and do everything possible to get there. And if you're still passed up, again, you know, kind of go got to go back to Stoic philosophy on this, right? Is that you know, you can't worry about the things that you can't control, you know, but you have to realize the things that you can. And um, you know, so I think that uh, you know, for better or worse, you know, these situations are always gonna exist, and especially in the skilled trades industries. Um, and it's it's something that we've got to uh uh we've got to navigate. Because look, at the end of the day, there are positions that demand different skill sets, right? And because I had to come to terms with this for a while too. I all my service managers have turned wrenches in the field, but you know why? It's because that's my values, that's my philosophy, right? But could my organization run with service managers that have never turned wrenches in the field but have exceptional leadership skills? Absolutely, it they absolutely could, you know, and but it's a different set of values, so one's not necessarily right or wrong, it's just about how it's executed. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_05 48:32

That makes perfect sense, and that's like my only comeback that I've had so far, uh, but it seems to fall flat. But I I I um I tell people it's like, okay, well, if if you don't like that, if you don't like that people are getting passed up over some you know college boy dude as who's never got money in his life, well, then you need to play the game as hard as you can to get in the position where you're on the hiring panel where you say, like, no, I mean, I'm gonna pick you know, Joe Schmo that's been here for 15 years and knows everything, that's your values, and then you need to be in the position, you need to get yourself in the position in the organization to be the guy that hires people. That's what you gotta do. If you don't like it, you gotta get there, play the game, suck it up, and that's it. But you know, I'm I'm having a hard time communicating that, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

Yeah, well, and you also can't wait to be picked either, right? You you have to get out there and you gotta show them that that's what you want, you know. And I'm not talking about just you know, meekly saying, hey, hey, pick me, pick me. I mean, you gotta get in somebody's face respectfully, right? And say, Listen, I can do this, consider me for this position. You know, I mean, that's see that kind of stuff I relate back to uh my my stunt industry days, right? Because I'd be out at 3 a.m. hustling sets, trying to meet stunt coordinators and say, Hey, we've never met before, but I can do this. Here's my headshot, call me, you know, and it's like that's what you got to do. You gotta put yourself out there and and let it be known that hey, you can do this and and you want to.

SPEAKER_00 50:20

Yeah, absolutely. Sounds to me, Renee, like your crew out there, they're all circled around in a bunch of rocking chairs complaining like hell, but they ain't going nowhere. They need to they need to take some action, all that energy can be put into something productive. Uh, so I applaud you for not getting sucked into it. Uh, but I think carry yourself the way that you do, be the example and call them on it. Like it's okay to to to be proud of yourself, and you gotta own your impact. Right? You gotta say, look, look at here's my path. And all of y'all are older than me. I didn't go to college, I'm not the college boy, but this is what I did. What I'm not doing is complaining.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

Right?

SPEAKER_00 51:12

A little bit of reality can help some people out. So beautiful question. But put you in time out because you're asking really hard questions today, Renee.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

I love it, man.

SPEAKER_00 51:22

I love it. It's good comment, good, good stuff. Uh I know it's gonna bring value. And Josh, thank you for answering the questions uh with with the depth and reality that you did because the our our audience, they're all different ages, and there are some young professionals out there that are dealing with exactly these problems. So it's gonna be valuable for them. So here's the the fans only content question, Josh. What is uh what is a significant learning that you've had as a result of a painful misstep?

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Oh god, you know, you when you have so many, they all start to blur.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

Yes, I know that.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Oh, you know, it's really it's really hard to say. I guess one that stands out. Uh, like I said, I mean as when you when you grow a business.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

Uh-huh. It's me again, the party crasher. I do this so that I can remind you that you can sign up for three different levels uh on patreon.com slash learnings and missteps. All three levels are gonna get you back stage past access. So you're gonna get to learn the dark secrets of our guests. And more importantly, you're gonna help us stay commercial free. So appreciate y'all's patience, and here we go. So we got to be responsible to you to your point, Josh. And it what we want for people, we're not them. Right, right, we are not them, and we gotta respect that. Oh man, beautiful stuff, hard lessons out there. Um, you've had a lot of impact, Josh, in in the industry. You're out there uh uh influencing people. Uh how many how comfortable are you with identifying as an influencer?

SPEAKER_02 53:31

What kind of question is that, Jesse? You know, you know, it that's a it's a it's a funny question because I just had this conversation with somebody not long ago. Um I would say that I want to try to find another word for it, right? Yeah, because it's I'm not I'm not your typical influencer, right? I don't have millions of followers, right? And I don't uh you know that's that's that's not me. Um I make an impact, I know I do, with the the following that I have, and that's good enough for me. Um that's all I ever that's all I ever wanted to be able to do, right? I I don't need a ton of eyeballs, I just need the right eyeballs uh or ears, you know, whoever's watching or listening, right? You know. Um I guess I you know, I I don't know what other word we could find besides influencer, but influencer just doesn't sound right to me. Um, I don't, I don't here's the other thing, too, is I don't want to influence people to do anything. Um, I think maybe that's where my hesitation comes in. I'm not trying to influence, I'm trying to educate, I'm trying to inspire, right? I'm I'm trying to uh just let people know what's out there. I'm not trying to influence anybody to get into the the skilled trades if they don't want to or anything like that. I'm trying to to put it on a pedestal, on a platform, on a stage, you know, so people can say, I didn't know about this, but now I have this resource where I can. And holy cow, I didn't realize how many people were happy and successful and you know, wealthy and all this other stuff, you know. I just uh so you know, to answer your question, now don't call me an influencer.

SPEAKER_00 55:32

I love it, I love it, it's good. Well, you've had impact, man, and and I'm grateful to you for the impact that you've had and will continue to have. And so, you know, the future is always ahead of us. Uh, what footprint do you intend to have on the world?

SPEAKER_01 55:54

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

Um I just, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, my my world revolves first and foremost around my family, right? So um I do what I do at the end of the day uh for them. And and that's that's really all I need. If you would have asked me this while I was still a stump man, I would have said it was a glass house on a on a mountain bluff somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

That would be my that's what I'm gonna do, you know.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

But no, you know, it's it's first and foremost, it's my family. Um, you know, and I I just uh it sounds cliche, but at the end of the day, I just I want to be remembered as a uh a good man who made a difference somehow, right? Um whether that's in the skilled trades, whether that's you know, with uh with my crew here at at Wendy City, um, you know, with my family, my friends, whatever. Uh not picky, man.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

It's just you know it it's that. I think it's that um real the real stuff, right? The people around you, your your family, the people you work with, because they're also family, you spend as much or more time with them than you do at home. Uh well that's not an accusation, that's an assumption, right? Because I I I've done that in my past. Um and if we can affect their like the ripples of impact that that's going to have are tremendous. And so that glass house on the bluff, like that's that's pretty sexy. But how does that going to serve our community? But impacting your family and the people you work with, caring for them, honoring them, respecting them, that's where it's at, man.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

Yeah, no, absolutely. There was uh have you have you read the uh seven habits of people?

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Renee, well Renee listened to them two or three times driving to Colorado and back, and he he at no, I'm sorry, New Mexico.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

New Mexico.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

He he he was a teenager. He's like, Jesse, I really, really want to listen to that Stephen Covey CD. I said, sure, no problem. You remember that, Renee?

SPEAKER_05 58:20

Yeah, I remember that. I remember that. I remember you lying about that right now. You're lying right now. I never volunteered for that. You know, but but that's funny you say that because um another CD, I don't remember where we were driving, but you were listening to the um oh, I forgot what it what his name is, the author, but the uh it's called Negotiate This. Do you remember the author? Yes, that's so funny. Okay, well, you you would play that, and I was like, Why are you listening to this garbage? And I recently bought that audiobook. Oh, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

Nice. Look at that full circle, buddy. Yeah, that's that's awesome. Where I was going with that is it reminds me of I think it's habit number two, I want to say, where it's the uh uh the exercise, the uh not end of yeah, the end of life exercise. Uh-huh. Um you know which I'm talking about. Oh, yeah, funeral, you know. Um, but I think that that's if anybody out there hasn't read Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, do yourself a favor right now. I'm sure you know you've heard of it. Everybody's heard of it. If you haven't, crawl out from that rock that you're living under, hear about it, read it. It's a good book. But that exercise really gains uh helps you gain perspective on you know what you want in life, uh, where you're at now, and and how you can go about getting it.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Yep. That's solid advice. Thank you, Josh, for that. Renee, any final thoughts, my friend?

SPEAKER_05 59:53

Uh I'm gonna stay in a timeout. Crazy. No, we just nailed it. You nailed it.

unknown 1:00:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

Yep. So Josh, thank was there anything that we failed to cover uh that you wanted to mention and share with the LMers out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:12

No, man, I don't think so. I blacked out during this whole thing, so I don't know what just happened.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

You killed it. That's what happened. You killed it. Um appreciate your time, my man. This was this was fun. And and again, uh Renee, he's my brother, and I love him. And and I deeply appreciate people, professionals out there that are willing to share their knowledge and expertise with them. And so, Josh, I'm grateful because what you've shared is going to help him in his career and help him be uh an awesome dad and an awesome husband and an awesome community member. And someday he'll figure out how to be an awesome brother.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:58

I'm working on it one day at a time, one percent better than yesterday. That's it. What's up, LM fam? Jesse has finally let me out of timeout, and it's about that time for our listener shout out. What do you think, Jesse?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:17

Ready to go, baby. So, our listener shout out goes to Miss Emily Pike. She sent us a message and said, Thanks for connecting. I love the podcast. I love listening to and reading about other people's stories and their journey and experiences through the trades. Keep up the amazing work. We got that message through LinkedIn. Uh, so Emily, appreciate that you're listening and really love the feedback. It helps motivate us. Man, you are one dedicated listener sticking with us all the way through to the very, very end. Please know that this podcast dies without you. And we invite you to share how the episode is impacting you, along with your thoughts, questions, and suggestions. You've been gracious with your time, so we added social media links in the show notes to make it super easy for you to connect with us. Be kind to yourself, stay cool, and we'll talk at you next time.