Becoming a More Impactful, Self-Aware, People-First Business Leader with Chris Gutkes of Island Elevator

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What is like the uh the common misconception that you see when you're out there talking to people?

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Uh the biggest misconception is that it's easy. Like, like you, you're right. You just you man, I wish I had a job like y'all. Like you just show up and start working, like, bro. It's that me too. I wish I had that job because it ain't that.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

You know it isn't. Yeah, you you know what the problem is for the most part. It's not really the trade or the job. I think that it's really about people's misconceptions about things in general. Everybody thinks that everything's black and white. Yes, and the world right now is missing that level of nuance. So you'll take the technician, it doesn't matter what trade that they're in, and everybody thinks that the grass is always greener on the other side. So the guy out in the field digging a hole and laying things out in 95 degree weather, which is what they're doing right now, troopers in Florida, linesmen in Texas, they think that, oh boy, it would be just so great if I could go into the office. And the people in the office are like, you know, oh, it's just so easy. All they gotta do is just go ahead and, you know, they show up and they do their nine to five, and then they go home and they don't have to think about anything. And the problem is that people don't fully appreciate the fact that they're both wrong and they're both right. Boohoo!

SPEAKER_01 1:21

That is Mr. Chris Gutkus with Island Elevator. I don't know if you can feel the intensity and the energy in his voice, but baby, let me tell you, it is common. In this conversation, we talk about the value of adopting technology as a skill set in the trades, right? Because like nowadays you just can't get away from the darn thing. We also go over our perspective on what to consider in choosing a career in the trades. Uh, he had some phenomenal advice, and and I think my advice was pretty darn phenomenal, also. This entire conversation between Chris and I felt like two old friends catching up again. We talked about sobriety, we talked about leadership, we talked about empathy, we talked about our big gigantic missteps. Um, I'm gonna give you a heads up right now. You probably need to grab you a pen and paper and take some notes because Chris drops a ton of resources and fantastic ideas for self-development and building your self-awareness. And we also always got a shout out to our patrons, especially when we have a brand new one. So, shout out to Mr. Anson Green for signing up. Anson Green has supported me personally uh in my professional career. A few years back, I served on a committee with the Texas Workforce, and he's still out there doing amazing things around workforce development and adult education, making waves, big waves. Mr. Anson Green, I appreciate you. And the rest of the patrons, too. You got another baller, a baller part of the group, baby. Watch out. And speaking of ballers, we gotta give a shout out to Davis and Walker from the Lane Foundations podcast. These guys are cooking up something pretty darn amazing. It's called the Next Gen Builders Summit. Uh, we're gonna be hanging out at Clemson University in September, September 9th, I think it is. I might be getting it wrong. We got a panel of speakers that are gonna be talking to the next generation of the construction industry, and it ain't the first stop, so keep an eye out for all the details on all the socials. We're gonna do it right. And lastly, I can't help but give y'all an update about the book. Lean in Love, 5S Love Letters, has officially become an international sensation. Well, I don't know if it's a sensation, but we we have crossed beyond the borders of the United States, and there are purchases outside of the United States, which is super exciting. And so, what that means is Jennifer Lacey is now an international author and illustrator. I'm just an international author. I'm I'm checking the I'm checking the stats out there to see if tagging counts as illustrating, because if it does, I may be able to justify that with some documentation. Anyhow, I'm gonna stop flapping my gums, and here you go, Mr. Chris Gutz.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

It's kind of coloring all of the conversations, whether it comes to politics or religion or what you do for a job or what you perceive success is when we're trying to drive ourselves into the future. And we're all just trying to take care of our family. And some of us learn differently, neurotypical versus a neurotypical. And when we're talking about some people are better in front of computers and numbers, and some people that that's what the biggest problem for business owners these days is putting the right people on the bus and then putting the people on the bus in the right seat. Yeah. So what you perceive is an easy kind of job or whatever it is that your whacked-out misconception is, is it may end up being very difficult to you. And what I perceive may end up being very difficult to me. So I think that what we're talking about is that, or at least how I try to talk to people, is that I understand when you know our primitive brain functions, it's easier to see things in black and white. It's a yes or it's a no, it's a danger or it's a safe place. But the real world works in gray. And the person that's out there digging those holes has certain aspects of that, their job that are so much more beneficial, so much more satisfying to be able to go home, sweat, to be able to turn back and say, I built that, I dug that, I was part of that. Those are those are huge pieces of our identifying our own self-worth.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

That some people out in the field are able to more naturally be able to come home and describe what they did to their family. But you got to deal with all of the nonsense that goes along with that. And it's the same thing when we're talking about the office side. And fortunately for me, I get to see both ways. Yeah. And nobody's job is easy. So I think that probably the best way to describe the trades to those that don't understand the trades, is that it's exactly like your job, only a little bit different.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Right? Everyone in their role understands the nuances of their role. And it's those things, the gray, the nuances are in the gray, and it's those things that get taken for granted. And people, you know, depending on their Zoom level, really don't understand all that extra stuff that that that you have to deal with. The weather, the elements, the physicality of some of the work is cool, and it doesn't just happen. There's some education, there's experience, there's knowledge, there's personalities. You got any personalities out there that that you've come across in the trades? I have enough personalities.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yeah, yeah. They go they go all the way across the spectrum, which is a whole nother thing. That's that's a different part of it. So we're talking about the technical understanding of what we do for a living and then the people part of what we do for a living. And I've heard on some of your uh podcasts that you're talking about how everything has kind of evolved over society and it's also evolved inside of the trades. So we're talking about it's no longer about visualizing how something works in your brain and then putting your hands on it and then making it work. We actually have to be able to bring in different pieces of technology that are intimately associated with what it is that we're trying to accomplish for the customer. So specifically, and I know that this goes across all the trades, but my area of expertise is elevators. Elevators 30, 40 years ago, were all relay logic, which is probably very similar to the HVAC industry, to the boiler guys, to electrical. Now there's so many different tiers of software development, understanding, engineering that happen before that equipment even gets out into the field. For you to be complacent, for you to be kind of cavalier about what type of development was done before you touched that, and for you not to be curious enough to be able to dig down into it and really get your hands on that and try to understand what happened before it got to you. You're gonna be left in the dust when it comes time for you to be able to fix that piece of equipment three, four, five years down the road. And it's happening every day. It's not getting nothing is getting easier to work on, nothing is getting more simplified. It's just it's very different. It's still an elevator, it's got to go up and down, doors open and close. But we've got different ways of interacting with the equipment and with the software. And like you said on uh one of your podcasts, where you've got to have a certain level of familiarity with computers. Doesn't have to be crazy, but you do, you can't be afraid of the technology because this is where the industry is going. And the equipment that everybody was just so comfortable working on for the first 70, 80, 90 years of elevatoring, it's no longer going to be enough to be able to carry you through for the last 20 to 30 years of your career, especially if you're stepping into it today. Yes. It's gonna be a good conversation. There's so many challenges. There's so many challenges in life. I had a, you want to talk about personality and people. I got a 30-year mechanic, but I feel like I really I'm I'm all about self-improvement, which as I know is another thing that you kind of run through a lot of yours, which is why I think that we probably have a lot in common. And I've been on podcasts and trying to work on my communication and trying to be more clear without the delays, like the mental hiccups that kind of come out verbally. But the 30-year mechanic that I'm referencing, he came in and this guy could touch and work on equipment, manage people, lead them in the right direction, perform field training, but he didn't know how to attach a document to an email. That's going to have to be a standard set of skills and operating procedures going forward is that email is no longer just for the office, it's for everybody. If you want to participate in society, you can't just close your eyes and pretend like things aren't happening. Because while you're waiting on hold to order your pizza, mine's already en route because I ordered it on DoorDash. That's where the elevator industry is going. That's where plumbing, electric, everything is going to be remote monitored, touching through different platforms in order to be able to see what your equipment is doing, what your people are doing, where everything is coming from and going. It's not, it's not harder. It's just different. And people, and you know this as well as I do, people are resistant to change. And change is happening whether or not you are adequately prepared for it. And a lot of the things that are in our reach right now make it easier for us to be able to flatten that learning curve in order to be able to get from point A where I'm using this to point B where everybody else is using that. I don't tell me that they YouTube and they were able to, you know, find a repair for their elevator on YouTube. It's it's madness. This is this wasn't around 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

You clearly have an understanding on like this new element. You gotta have the physical capability, the trade knowledge, the people element, and now it's the technology piece. I've said it before. I specifically chose the trades because I didn't want to touch a computer, I didn't want to read, and I didn't want to write anymore. Like I just want to go do put stuff together with my hands. Yeah, but now you've got to have that piece. And so so the LM family can can get to know you better. How did you come to understand the necessity of all of those pieces?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

I failed, I failed over and over and over again. That's my key to success. Failing forward, I'm super unhappy with being mediocre. So when I started in the just to give you a little uh background on who I am and and where I came from, I don't know if you're if you did any research on me at all. So I don't want to be redundant.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

You're good. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

That's your way of saying that you didn't do shit.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

I don't. I got four questions so that I and they're specifically designed to not have to do research.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Okay, there you go. Keep it simple. Keep it simple, Stuart. That's it. So I my name is uh Chris Gutkis. I am currently president of Island Elevator. I'm a fourth generation elevator technician. My great-grandfather got into the business. The family story is that his father was at a rail yard in, I think it was Queens. And at that point, all equipment, this is uh late 19th century, all equipment that was coming into Manhattan was coming in through the rails. We did not have a fully developed uh highway system. And he was in charge of determining which rail cars got unloaded. And somebody from Otis Elevator, which everybody should know because they're the biggest elevator company in the world, came over and said, Listen, I need my stuff off of this car over here right now. And my great-great-grandfather at the time said, Hey, that sounds very that sounds good. You guys are in elevators. You know what? My son needs a job. And the gentleman for Otis said, I don't know what to tell you. You're gonna have to talk to the office. And my great-great-grandfather said, I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't look like your stuff's coming off that rail car anytime soon. Okay. Nice. That's how the the family got into it. Passed on from my great-grandfather, my grandfather, who was a big he started out, he was in the Navy, then he came back, he was a New York City fireman, joined the local one IUEC, worked his way through in the field, up through the politics, eventually became business manager, which is president of the local union. And he was president for about 20 years. So the next generation is my so when he got up and he had gotten in, being in the trade wasn't about what you knew, it was about who you knew, which is how a lot of things are in life. And he was able to bring in all of his sons and uh son-in-laws and all of those people. So my father got into the industry. He worked for a little while and then he started his first elevator company in 1989. That company got into a bad contract, went under, covered the five boroughs of Long Island. He split the remaining contracts with his partner at the time. His partner took everything in the five boroughs. He took everything on Long Island, partnered up with his cousin at the time, and they started the first version of Island Elevator. I, on the other hand, got out of the high school, joined the military four years, active duty, spent about two years in Korea, year and a half in North Carolina, Fort Bragg. When I got out, I told my father, I said, listen, uh, I got to work. So he's like, All right, I'll put you to work. Got out uh literally the next day after I got out of the army, I drove up, got in my I still had all my stuff in the truck, and the old man put me to work the next day, which was great. And as soon as I started working in the uh the business, that was it. I was addicted. It had all of the challenges that I ever wanted because uh working on elevators kind of speaks directly to my personality. My personality is that I love challenges and I love being able to continue to push myself to the next level. And elevators, chess, golf, all of these things are challenges that no matter how long you do them, no matter how well you get, you'll never be the best. And I'm okay with that. What I find exhilarating is the challenge to get to that level where I'm I'm trying to be the best. You'll never be the best elevator man. You'll never be, there's just too much to do. There's too much to know. The the elevator industry, just like the other building trades industry, is so vast and so deep and constantly changing that you will never be the best. But you will have to ask yourself if you want to challenge yourself to become the best, then the skill trades are your opportunity to pursue that route. Because just like what my grandfather always told me is when I was getting into the business, he said, there's so much to know in this trade that by the time you know all of it, you're too old to do it. That's for real. That's real talk. Yep. That's it. So you think you may think that there's I'm gonna get there and I'm gonna finish my six months, or I'm gonna finish my three-year apprenticeship, or I'm gonna finish this job, or I'm gonna finish this, or I'm gonna finish that, and then I'm the man. You'll never be the man or the woman. You'll never be that because just like what they say, there's always somebody bigger, better, richer, faster. That's just how the human race is, is that if you're not growing, if you're not moving, if you're not constantly challenging yourself to get to the next level, then, or at least this is how I perceive things. If an if I'm not getting better, then I'm getting worse. Uh, if I'm not going faster, then I'm going slower. And somebody else is going to pass me by because there's a million young Jessie's and Chris's out there that are just wildly hungry to go get what they think they should have. And I need to make sure that they are either running in parallel to me or working for me. That's the only thing I care about.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Absolutely. Well, yeah, so that's a that's a critical thing. Recruiting talent. You know, in in my career, I've had different many different roles.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

I don't recruit. No. Nope. I don't recruit talent. I train talent. I build talent. I recruit attitude and aptitude. I recruit people that give a crap about what they do for a living, whether or not they're sweeping the floors or parking cars or building elevators. I want people that take pride in what they do, people that are hungry. But I don't understand that what we're building here is special, it's unique. People that want to be part of something that requires long-term care, consideration, education. I want those type of people. I will make you into an elevator person. 104.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Because you can always teach skills, but one of the part of the statement that you made was hiring people that have that drive to and that will be better than you. Right? I've worked with some leaders that they were doing their best to tamp people down and keep them like they didn't want that person because it would it would pose competition. But what I'm hearing you say is like, bring them on. Let's let's let's build something with these folks.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

We spent a ton of time training. We spent a ton of time on uh safety training, skills training. We have everybody that comes through here is in a book and learning education program, four-year education program. We recently got approved by New York State Department of Labor to sponsor an apprenticeship program. Nice. Yeah, we are about it. I read a thing on LinkedIn where the CEO was talking to the CFO, and the CFO says, What if we spend all of this money to train these people and they leave? And the CEO says, Well, what if we don't and they stay? Yeah, that's how I feel. I feel that I am super people-centric, people focused. I want to give my people everything that I have. And if they leave, then God bless them, they were better off than when they got here. But if I do the right thing, then they're not going anywhere. So it's a constant cycle of accountability. I want the accountability. Give it to me. It's okay. Challenge me. Tell me what you need, and I'll give it to you. I want you to stay here. So it's not just about what the company's requirements are or the customers' requirements are. It's about what your requirements are if you work for Island Elevator. You have a say in what your career looks like. You have a say in how you want this whole thing to play out. And I need to be here for you. And this is how we're going to build this circle of accountability together.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah, it's absolutely a circle. It's connected and it goes back and forth. You got to have a nice tight feedback loop to accelerate people's growth.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

One hand washes the other, and both hands wash the face.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah. Well, and another thing that for folks out there uh listening that Or watching, you may be considering a career in the trades because there's a bunch of people that have transitioned from other careers and came into the trades. I got a lot of friends who are like, man, this is amazing. I hated my job. Good. There's parents out there that are like trying to guide their kids. And there's a ton of trades, and there's even more companies doing those trades. And one of the things that I that you eloquently described is your investment into developing your people. And so that's the that's the point, is for folks that are considering a career in the trades, find you a company that is going to invest in you, that has an interaprenticeship program, that has uh professional development, that has an expectation that you're growing all the time. There's other companies, they're gonna put you to work and you're gonna get a check, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

And that is not a place that serves you. I think it's got to start even earlier than that. You have to be able to define what you value. If you don't know what you value, then you're not gonna be able to find a company that supports your values and helps to kind of like bring that to light and explode it like a like a supernova, which is what I want to see. One of the interview questions that we typically ask for new field technicians is what new skill have you learned lately?

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

What book or article, what type of reading do you do? Because half of the game is putting your hands on the equipment, the other half of the game is all mental. Yep, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

That's like uh Yogi Barra, I think he said that 50% of the game is 100% mental.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

I love Yogi Barrow, man. I love it. That guy's got some good, super smart stuff. Yu-Gi-Oh!

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yogi's. But he what what we're looking for is that drive determination. Now, if you don't have drive and determination, if you're not constantly trying to accelerate your skill set, whatever that skill set may be, if you don't even know what you're doing, then you're going to be kind of like floating through the atmosphere, bouncing from one job to the next. But if you can articulate this is what I want, and you can show a track record of this is how I get the things that I want, then you're gonna find that you are going to be able to identify and join teams that are gonna help you get what you want. One of the other things that we talk to people about are what are your goals? If we have people coming in here that don't have goals, then there are people that are just not gonna work. We want people that are looking outside of today, tomorrow, what is your three-year plan? What is your five-year plan? Have you written it down? If you write things down, you're 40% more likely to do it. So we want that type of drive and determination. But if you as an individual are thinking about getting into the skilled trades, there's two things that I can recommend. Number one, first, take whatever crappy job that you can possibly get your hands on and put your hands into that scenario. A lot of people believe, again, things are uh you know greener on the other side of the fence. A lot of people believe that it's going to be something that it's not. But if you can take a really crappy job and feel good about putting your hands on that, then you it's ingrained in you. It's in your DNA. Now we just need to be able to bring out that light and fully develop your talent. If you touch it and it feels unnatural and you're just not going to be where you want to be, then that is a good indicator to you that maybe this just isn't a career for you, which is fine. Listen, there's tons of opportunities out there right now. And you need to be able to put your hands on that. Then you need to be able to say, okay, this is for me. Now, where do I want to be? I've done the bad job, I've dug the holes, I've I've worked for the sprinkler company. I did landscaping for a little while. I love being out in the sun. I love being able to build something, step back and say, I see, I see that, I put that there. That's a beautiful thing. That's a beautiful thing to bring home to your to yourself and to your family. But if you can't articulate where you're gonna go and where you're gonna be, then you're never gonna get there.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

Yeah, you gotta have direction. We all gotta have direction. So the the elevator is a family business. You you were in the in the army for for four years. Yes. Prior to that, can you go back back into young Chris's mind and think of what were your earliest career aspirations?

SPEAKER_00 27:06

It was anything but elevators.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Really?

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Tell me more, because I think we share that in common. I well, I grew up in an elevator family. So every barbecue, all of the uncles, and they're sitting around and they're talking about jobs, and they're doing this, that, and the third. And I'm like, you know, uh, I I always view myself as a little bit of like an outlier. So I wanted to do something else. I thought of myself as somebody a little bit more cerebral. Again, misconceptions about what goes on actually out in the field. So I wanted to find a career opportunity that was maybe a little bit more challenging. I saw myself as a thousand other things, but an elevator person. But what as I kind of marched my way through school, what I found is that I did not have the type of discipline at the time, especially in high school, that is required in order for you to become successful academically. So that's when I ended up going to the military. The military taught me a lot of discipline. And then when I came out, I worked for a little bit for my uh for my father. And then from there, I went to my grandfather got me into the union, and I ended up working for a large multinational elevator company called Tissin Krupp. And I worked for them for about three and a half years, and then I really the first day on the job. I at that point I already knew that I wanted to work in it. But the first day on the job, I told myself, and this is just my approach as I was going through things, other people were happy being apprentices. I told myself when I when I went to work every day that I am not an apprentice, I am a mechanic in training. So everything that I need to do to become a mechanic, I'm going to go through it. I'm going to complete the schooling. I'm going to pass my mechanics exam. I'm only going to do it once. And then I'm going to be doing this on my own with a helper. So I did that for about three and a half years. And my father broke up with his partner. He hired me on. I came on in 2005. We started with 85 units in a windowless office in Long Island. And we built up the company from there. Today, well, at 2016, we probably had about 11 employees, maybe about three to five hundred units under service. And then my father died suddenly in March. And at that point, I became shotgun president. So now I spent my entire life learning how to be an excellent elevator technician. And now I'm in this position where I'm in charge of something completely different. And the skill sets are completely different. And all of my learning and education had to basically start over from scratch, from being able to understand financial statements to uh organizing operations, processes, development, managing people, being a leader, accepting the fact that I am a leader was really hard for a while. And and working on those skills that are necessary in order to help everybody be successful, not just myself be successful, because there was a lot of me-centric up until that point. So I don't know where we started with this question, but as a young Chris Gutgus, what was I supposed to be talking about? I sometimes I just start talking and I love the sound of my own voice.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

So I I feel you. I got all my ex-girlfriends tell me the only reason you started a podcast is because you love the sound of your own voice. I said, Yes, ma'am. And I listen when I'm editing, I play it slow because I like it. The question was, I think you answered it, was what were your earliest career aspirations?

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah. So those my earliest career aspirations were to be the best elevator technician. What once, well, early, early, and then once I got into the business, I just specifically said, I want to be a mechanic and I want, and I don't even want to be a good mechanic, I want to be the best. So challenging myself to get to a point that I cannot get to. But uh that that process, that journey through there, ended up, I ended up finding myself at a very high level. If I were to comparatively associate myself to somebody that I look to in the elevator industry today, is Ed Rivera, who was a guest on your podcast at one point. Yes. And what Ed does now is something that if I was still in the field, putting my hands on equipment, doing that's like the ultimate job. Ed's got a fantastic job.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, he's a solid dude, man. He he he he really is. So this is perfect because it's a perfect transition into the next question. You you mentioned that you were shotgun president, accepting or coming to terms that with, in fact, you are now a leader of the organization and responsible for people. And so, in that experience, I'm assuming there was probably uh significant learning you had as a result of a painful misstep. You got any of those you're willing to share?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

I know that you gave me this question ahead of time, and I was thinking about it. I was like, there's so many fuck-ups that are over the course of my career, and they just go, they run the gamut, like everything that you could possibly do wrong, I've done wrong. I was uh I was an exceptionally poor leader. I took my frustrations out of my people. I had very difficult time forming relationships and getting people in order to move in the direction that I wanted them to. I hired vendors that I uh that burnt me. I spent money that I can't get back. I hired people to fill positions in my company that were not good fits, that I didn't do adequate enough background checks on, that that you know it's just it's countless. I I I can't even think of just one thing that I've screwed up really, really bad, you know, bad that I can just like bring to the surface. So I think that I I I I don't know. I don't know how to make one thing because I I've screwed up so many times. It's unbelievable. So the fact that I'm still in business today really it's it's it's crazy. I tell people that I'm a I am an awesome elevator man, but I I am a I'm learning how to become a better businessman because a lot of people they depend on me to make the right decisions. We got 34 employees. We could they depend on me to make the right decision so that they can go home and feed their family or they can go home and see their family.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

So I need to make sure that I'm constantly assessing the decisions that I make, identifying the ones that went wrong, and then correcting them going forward. Because what I tell everybody that comes in here is that I don't want you to be afraid to make a decision. I don't want you to be afraid to make a mistake. The only difference between the mistakes that you make and the mistakes that I make are the ones that when I make them, it costs the company a lot more money.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

A lot of money.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Yeah, of course. You know, it's just a complete screw up. So what I would say is that probably my my biggest mistake or mistakes that I had made over time that if I could go back and redo them, or if I could go back and start my learning process earlier, would be specifically.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Oh yeah, I gotta interrupt the flow just a little bit. Can you hear that music in the background? A little groovy music, anyhow. This little segment of this interview exists and is only available on the YouTube. That's right. We got a YouTube channel, Learnings and Missteps, check it out. Or you can go to learningsandmissteps.com and find our YouTube channel there. And while you're there, you can also click on become a member uh to contribute some money, like funds, straight up. I'm just gonna say it. 80% of that is going to be donated to the Skilled Trades Alliance because the Skilled Trades Alliance mission is very much in line with the Learnings and Missteps mission. Uh, and we're going to support great things and great people, and you signing up as a patron will contribute to that effort. So we appreciate you deeply for doing that. Also, I don't know if y'all heard or not, just in case you missed it, I'm an author now. Jennifer Lacey and I have co-authored a book. You gotta check it out, Lean in Love, 5S Love Letters. It's on the Amazon. The whole goal of that book is to just help one person. And so far, we've gotten several several people from the No BS tribe, from the LM family that have indicated to us that something, at least one little thing in the book, has helped them. And so we've kind of exceeded our goals. But to exceed the goal and continue helping people, that is the ultimate privilege in the world. So while you're out there on the Amazon, on the YouTube, on the LinkedIn, all the socials, leave us some reviews, leave us some comments, let us know you're out there. I know you're there, I see the statistics, the data, but I don't get to interact with y'all, and that makes me a little bit sad. Anyhow, I'm gonna stop my whining. Appreciate y'all very much. Go to the YouTube to catch this learning and misstep backstage pass, and here we go, back to the conversation. So, how did you go about building your self-awareness and your empathy for people? Because it was a gap, and right, it was probably very easy. People were reminding you that it was a gap, but you had to do something to to close. It doesn't just happen overnight. No, how did how'd you do that?

SPEAKER_00 37:04

The first step was getting sober. So I had a big drinking problem, specifically started when I was, you know, I started drinking when I was in high school, and then it just got hyper accelerated when I was in the army, came out. We were at the tail end of that tradesman generation where recreational drinking was very acceptable. Thank God it's not anymore. Thank God for Uber, thank God for all of these things that we take for granted. Yes. But I would I again, this is a this is a a young person with a lot of ambition, very narrow-minded, and lacked certain areas of disciplined thought, self-reflection, as I was developing through my 20s, my 30s into my career. I thought that uh I needed to defend myself all the time. Getting sober helped because now instead of me drinking away the stress and the anxiety and the negative self-thoughts, I was forced at a certain point to now uh look at them and say, why am I here? What am I doing? What do I want to live like this? And it was a progression because I've been sober for almost 10 years now. The first couple of years were very weird. If you start to question who am I and can I be this person without drinking? And and as those feelings started to subside, then you start working on self-development because I've got all I've got. I'm not drinking, I'm not hungover, I'm not making excuses, I'm not apologizing for dumb shit. So now I'm I'm really starting to use this opportunity to explore myself. And as I'm going through that, I get certain ideas from my wife. My wife is a therapist, she's a trained therapist.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

And and I also like to try to read and and explore different ideas because I I like to be better. I want to be better. Today, uh today I'm better than I was yesterday, but not as good as I'm gonna be tomorrow. Yeah, across a concept mindfulness. So, mindfulness, if you don't know, definitely look it up. It's but what and and people have different versions of it. The version that I took of it, that I kind of created for my own exercise, is to understand and acknowledge something, a stress as it comes into you, and then understand that it's there, push it off to the side, and then focus on what's in front of you. Because I was in a position where I was trying to fix elevators, at the same time, I was trying to manage and move around people into the field, and at the same time, I was trying to deal with customers because there was a lot going on. So once I started exercising this version of mindfulness, what and because I was sober, I was able to see like some of the physical things that were that were starting to pop up when I when I was experiencing stress. And then I was able to develop certain techniques in order to deal with that deep breathing, just focus. All right, let me get this in, let me acknowledge it and then go back to what I was doing. Then as things continued to continue to progress, I felt good about that. I wanted to work on more leadership skills. So specifically, the first person that I listened to talk about directly about leadership was Simon Seneck on YouTube videos. So that kind of piqued my interest a little bit more. Then we got hit with COVID. Then now I'm putting some of these ideas and principles that I really grasp, but now I'm able to articulate into action, into motion. So there was not, you know, during COVID, it was a very scary thing. We lost one of our guys to COVID very early. It was a very hard thing for the uh for the team to manage, and they needed leadership. They needed to understand that we were gonna get through this thing. And guess who that's gonna fall on? I don't care whether or not you want to do it, Chris. It's on you. All right.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

You, baby.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

So there through that experience, I continue to develop a little bit more. And as you do these these developments, really it's kind of like it's kind of like fixing fixing an elevator. I know how things should look, and then I identify what it might be, then I apply a fix to what it might be, and then I see if that fix actually holds. So that's how my leadership development works. Okay, I see this, this is a nice concept. Let me see if I can put this into action. Does it work? Do more of it, does it not work, do less of it? Yeah, so we went through that fast forward a couple of more years, then I start listening to Gary Vaynchuk. And Gary mentioned specifically about empathy and about self-awareness. So these are concepts that we know and we're related to them, but we never really take a minute to apply them to ourselves. So I started doing a little bit at a time, a little bit at a time, a little bit at a time. And then I also read a book called Never Split the Difference, which is by Chris Voss. Highly recommend that read. Excellent, excellent book, and it moves very, very quickly. And each chapter has a little, and one of those lessons is tactical empathy. And quick, quick on Chris Voss. He was at one point the highest-rated FBI hostage negotiate international hostage negotiator. So he's using all of these little negotiation techniques, and he's showing you how it works in like high tension type of environment. So he talked about tactical empathy, and that started to make sense to me. So I started to use more and more empathy in how I was dealing with things. So, what how I see myself in my own life is like not really a construction worker, but more like a chef. So I take a little bit from here and a little bit from there, a little bit from there, and then I mix it all up, and then that's Chris. So maybe I need a little bit more empathy, maybe I need a little bit more self-awareness. And as I go ahead and start to exercise these newfound skills into the world, I'm finding really amazing results. And not just at work, I'm talking about at home, I'm talking about at the bank. I'm talking about anywhere that I go, I feel more confident and more in control of my life.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

First, congratulations on 10 year sobriety. I I'm at I just broke six this month. No, no, last month broke six years. It's the best, it's amazing. And you know, it's fun is you were like the first two years are just really funky, like, hell yeah, they're super funky. And then the time all of a sudden it's like, well, what do I do with myself now? So that's one. The second thing is you uh the resources that you just dumped, like thank you. I I know LM family. If you didn't catch it, rewind and listen, get your pen and paper and write down all those resources because they are all absolute solid resources, like that's it. Uh the third thing is uh you mentioned earlier that uh going into business, it was about who you know. And I'm not sure who I heard say this, it may be Gary V. Somebody said it's not about who you know, it's about who knows you. That was that Christopher from the future.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

That's another somebody that you should definitely check out. Uh I don't know if it was him or if he was uh quoting somebody else. Oh, I I think it was uh what who is the guy that he follows? Uh Seth Godin. Seth Godin says that networking is who you know, marketing is who knows you.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

And me and you are watching the same fucking podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

I bet we at the same time, I bet we were doing it. Yes. And so here's the thing is as you're describing your journey, right? Your path of self-discovery, self-development, people know you all the time. They knew me when I sucked, they knew me when I was chewing them out, screaming, yelling, demanding, blaming the world, because if everybody would just listen to me, everything would be perfect. And when they knew that guy, they didn't want to be around that guy. But as we invest in ourselves and develop ourselves, but to your to your story specifically, people want to people want to remember you. And so that's the value in building the empathy and building the self-awareness and getting uncomfortable to really question like what the hell am I doing? And why am I why am I being like this? I don't have to react to every single little thing that goes wrong. I can look at it and I can put it to the side, come back to it later, and continue focusing, treating people like I appreciate them. That's amazing, brother. Amazing. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

The self-awareness is like a huge thing. It's super uncomfortable, but really just tap on two things. Number one is that people immediately, almost immediately said, I like sober Chris better than drunk Chris. And I thought, I was in my in my stupid screwed up brain, I thought people like drunk Chris better than Sober Chris. So there was that. And then as far as the self-awareness is concerned, I asked myself, you gotta start from a from a place where you're like, okay, I gotta be really honest with myself. And that's that's what I kind of say is that because I am like weirdly obnoxious, at times obnoxiously honest with other people. I I don't really have that filter in my brain where it's like, maybe I shouldn't say that. So I asked myself the same tough questions that I ask other people. And I said, Chris, why are you so annoying to everybody else? Why are people so annoyed by you? Why do people get stressed around you? And by starting with those questions, by seeing what my impact on other people was, and then asking myself, why me as a leader, why am I creating this energy? Because before that, I would just say, Oh, that's their problem. That's their problem. Fuck them. That's their problem. But I went ahead and I started saying, maybe it's not their problem, maybe I'm the problem. And when I did that, that's when I started to realize that there were, it's not really the core person. It's not foundational Chris that's the problem. The problem with Chris was how I communicated to the world, how I brought the real true blue, genuine Chris to the world. Yeah. And that's the part that I needed to fix. And the more that I fix it, the more effective I am at showing people who I really am and that I actually have something to say. And I can actually hold your attention for a few minutes while we go ahead and have this discussion because I really want to tell you something.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

I was thinking about success and failure. I am I play a role in every successful experience and every experience of failure. Yes, other people play a role too, but I play a role and I got to take ownership for my contribution in that experience.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

That makes me think about Jocko Willinick, who's another person that I listen to on a regular basis. And he wrote a book called Extreme Ownership. Now, I did not read the book, but he he revisits a lot of the concepts in his podcast, in addition to having awesome, like high-level military stories. And this is a guy who's in the military, and the military that he's talking about, I was not in that military. I was in, I was in peacetime, pampered, sitting back, air conditioning military. He was in he was in the ship. And to hear the training and the focus and and the values that they were instituting in building a team, that's the really, really valuable stuff. But he also talks about extreme ownership, and extreme ownership starts at the top. Am I part of the problem? So by putting all of those things together, all of these really great ideas, and it's not like they thought of the ideas, they just found a way to communicate the ideas, to articulate those ideas so cleanly, so concisely, that it resonated with me. And I was able to take it and move that forward in my own life. All right.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

So we're sliding into home with the closing question. What footprint do you intend to leave on the world? On the world? I don't know. On the world, my man.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

I can I think being open and honest about what my limitations are will help me to be more effective. What Chris Doe and a lot of others in marketing and business development say is niche. Be more niche. Are you niche? You can be more niche. Me, that's what I'm taking forward as far as leaving my footprint is that I'm not going to worry about the world. I'm not going to worry about the US. I'm not even going to worry about New York. I want to be able to, everybody that I have engagement with, that I touch with, maybe they feel something. Maybe they remember me. Maybe they, you know, what was the uh the statement? People don't remember how people don't remember what you said to them. They may remember how you made them feel. I I want to make people feel good. And I want them to feel so good by having an interaction with me that they go out and make somebody else feel good. That's the only thing that I think that I can reasonably hope to accomplish. That's really my probably my why. That and providing opportunity. I want to be able to provide people opportunity to do the things that they want to do and feel good about doing the things that they want to do. What I tell everybody here is that it doesn't matter what we do. We could be selling hot dogs. We'd still do it this way. I, you know, our principles, our core values are real. That's us. We carry that forward. Elevators are just a conduit for us to be able to deliver that to customers and employees and people.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Amen, man. Amen. That's pretty damn profound, Chris. Any shout outs you want to give to family, friends, co-workers?

SPEAKER_00 51:29

I think the people that know I love them know that I love them, whether or not I tell them. I would like to give a shout out to the learnings and missteps tribe. I appreciate you spending some time listening to me. Now you know how my wife feels. And hopefully we can revisit this and do something fun again in the future.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

Absolutely, my man. Thank you, Chris. And for folks LinkedIn, you and I connected over LinkedIn. Support Chris, get out there, follow him, don't harass him. Clearly, y'all know. You can harass him. It's fine. Okay, harass him a little bit. Um, but clearly he's a leader, right? He you have value, you value people, you understand that showing up and and taking care of people is appropriate. And that's the kind of people we like to roll with. It's necessary. Absolutely. It's necessary. You can't be successful without it. My favorite part is when he called me out on not doing research on him. That's the first time that's happened, and it was brilliant. I hope y'all got a kick out of that. And now it's time for the LM Family Member shout-out. This shout-out is for Miss Melissa Izzy, the uh creator, owner, genius behind Hopeful Simplicity. If you're interested in organizational cheat codes like at the house and figuring out how to what your organization style is and how to like bring your every member of the household to be a part of the organizing, look her up on Hopeful Simplicity. You'll find her on the on the Insta. She's amazing people, and she drops this review on Amazon where she bought the book. Of course, she gets a little extra favor for getting the book, and this is what Melissa says she says, Much appreciated. How this breaks down communication on and off the job site. Applying the 5S concept into our day-to-day conversations to build healthier relationships can be a heavy concept, but the stories and playful workbook feel shifts the heavy to relatable. A quick read for an ever-growing mind. Thanks, Jesus and Jennifer. No, thank you, Melissa. And thank the rest of the LM family out there that y'all, I mean, I'm walking down a path that I could never have imagined. And it's because of y'all's support. Um, please keep serving it up, baby. I appreciate it. Be cool.

SPEAKER_02 54:05

Later.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Oh my goodness. You're either driving down the road or just so enthralled with the with this whole podcast that you went all the way down to the very, very, very, very end of it. And we appreciate you. And just we're going to take this as an indication of your dedication. So we got a little special request of you a call to action, because everybody tells us that like you need to have a call to action. So here's the call to action be kind to yourself. Go out there and share a smile with someone. Peace!