Accountability, Vulnerability, and Culture Change in Construction with Coralee Beatty

Welcome And Meet Coralie Beattie

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Because to think to expect that you can do it on your own only sets you up for disappointment, failed expectations, being hard on yourself, and a lack of growth.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

What is going on, LM family? Back again with another awesome, awesome interview, or guest rather. And this one's interesting. Like we met, I'm gonna maybe date myself. We connected on Clubhouse back when that was the thing, which was I don't know, five, six years now, maybe somewhere in that range. If you don't know what Clubhouse is, and you remember back in your teenage days when you had like three-way calling and you could call more than one person and everybody like it was like that with adults, which was super awesome. Um, she is a super accomplished construction influencer. And I know when I say that, a lot of people are like, I don't like that. It's like too bad. You've influenced me, you're influencing the industry, you're a damn influencer. She builds or she helps companies and leaders build accountable teams and strong leaders. She also helps leaders to lead with clarity and build trust, which, if y'all know, that's kind of a big, big thing. And then here's the other one that was pretty damn impressive is you help improve culture and retention without adding complexity, which I think is massive. We're definitely gonna get into that. Miss Coralie Beattie is the founder, supporter, operator, executor, all of the things of ThriveHQ. Uh, and you're gonna get to know a little bit more about here here in a bit. Now, if this is your first time here, you're listening to the Learnins and Missteps podcast, where you get a front row seat to see how amazing human beings just like you are sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it. I am Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to know Miss Coralie. Miss Coralie, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

I am so good, Jesse. Thank you so much for having me. And yes, the clubhouse days, which I can't believe it's been probably close to six years. I know I started right at the beginning, like in 2020, and wow, what a crazy time that was. And it seems like another lifetime ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Oh, seriously. I remember when I got into, I think Felipe Enriquez was the one who said, dude, you got to get on this thing, and I did. I was like, What is this? It's like anyway. I'm like, okay. And I was like, oh, and it was like peak, like it's awesome. There's all these clubs and rooms, and then it got flooded with salesmen, sales pool, and then it and then it disappeared. Then it just kind of evaporated.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

It was great through COVID, though, where everybody was sort of stuck at home. It was kind of perfect timing because everybody was at home, and what else could you do? And so everybody was getting on this this audio platform where you could just connect with people that you would just. I I met so many incredible people in that time, including yourself, that just you know, have influenced my excitement, my enthusiasm, and you know, keep you going because especially during that time, it was so easy to feel alone, uh, you know, building these businesses. And yeah, it's yeah, it was great.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yeah, yeah. And there were so many people that were open to share and like impart knowledge and wisdom and ask questions. You know, for me, I agree 100%, right? Like at that time, we were all so isolated, the connection, and that was kind of my big takeaway from it was man, I'm not the only one that needs community. We can digitally create community, and so that's kind of informed a lot of the things that I do now. So it was, and obviously, you and I I got to meet you and hear your wisdom. So, like, oh man, she's a player, like for real, for real. OG. So I'm glad that happened. Now, I like to start off with simple questions, easy softball questions. Is that okay or is that too boring?

SPEAKER_01 4:05

No, let's do it. I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Okay. Question

What Accountability Really Means

SPEAKER_02 4:08

number one: how do you think about accountability?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

You know, it's so interesting because you know, this is really it's like the crux of our industry in growth of business and growth of personal development and everything. Because to think, to expect that you can do it on your own only sets you up for disappointment, failed expectations, being hard on yourself, and a lack of growth. And when you can acknowledge the fact that nobody has done anything just on their own, or very little on their own, we need people. We need people to support us. So accountability is really somebody there for you to say, hey, I see you, I hear you, I'm here to support you because I want for you what you want for you. Let me hold you accountable. And I love that because it's just like you can get to a point like through practice, you can get to a point where it's like, now I can hold myself accountable, or at least I know what that looks like. Because in the beginning, when you're trying to build something, whatever that is, a career in the industry, or you're trying to build a business, whatever it is, you don't know. And so it's easy to get down on yourself. Having somebody there to support you, hold you accountable, and all of those things just helps you to grow. And when you can kind of turn around, it's like it helps you to build the confidence that you don't have in the beginning. And it's that confidence that gives you the ability to have the discipline to be accountable to yourself at some point.

Can Anyone Hold You Accountable

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Like accountable thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Maybe you can help me get clearer about how I think about accountability. I do not believe that you can hold me accountable. I do not believe anybody can hold me accountable. And I also don't believe it is my job, role, or responsibility to hold anybody else accountable. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Yes and no. I think that's that is ideal, yes. And I do believe there is a point that I can get to where I hold myself accountable because I have the discipline. And I think, and it's always on me. Like my actions, I take, I can say, you know, I'm accountable to my coach or I'm accountable to my partner, or I'm accountable to this person. And ultimately, that's just a key that I use to myself to say I need to do this because I don't want to look bad to them. So, yes, I'm still responsible for the actions. 100% I'm still responsible for the discipline that it takes to do it. And when I have someone there seeing me, hearing me, holding me accountable, it's just like, okay, they're gonna know if I don't do this thing. So absolutely, I agree what you're saying, where you know, nobody is, it's nobody is, it's not their job to hold me accountable. Well, it's not, well, that is another thing because in, you know, in our industry, yes, there's gonna be a project manager that needs to hold people accountable on site and all of that stuff because they're ultimately responsible or accountable for it. But when it comes to just like the performance of ourselves on a daily basis, like what it is we do, how we interact, and all of those things, we're the ultimately always 100% responsible. That's what leadership is. It's like you take 100% responsibility for everything that happens in around and for you around in your life. That's leadership. That's leadership.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

So yes, I agree. And accountability is a tool that helps us all.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yeah, uh, I'm with you 100%. And my thing is if you want accountability, all you need is two things. Number one is be accountable. Number two, number two is surround yourself with accountable people. Yeah, right. And so, like the dynamic of if you were coaching me, I would have a sense of accountability to the commitments that I made to you. And I am going to report on the progress or lack thereof because I am accountable to my commitment. Now, if you dictate something that I should do that I don't commit to, guess what's not gonna happen? I am not gonna be accountable. I don't care about it. A and B, any consequence you that I earn from that from you is irrelevant because I don't care. It was there was no commitment on my end from the beginning. And and you know, talking about PMs or super or whatever, anybody that like manages or is responsible for people. Being account, me as a manager, I'm accountable to my responsibilities as a manager. And in that means I have to say, Coralie, did you get the thing done? What's in your way? What do I need to do? What resources do you need, or are you the wrong person for the task? Because I'm being responsible to my commitment as a manager, and and so anyway, that is that just me splitting hairs, or how does that land?

SPEAKER_01 9:06

It does get it does get into the minutiae of it, and at the same time, I think it's really important for people to understand they are ultimately responsible for themselves. Like that's what it comes down to. You can have somebody that holds you accountable. You can't point fingers and go, well, you didn't tell me I was supposed to. It's like, dude, that's like that's on you.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Yeah. Oh, my favorite is I forgot. Now, I say that because I used the hell out of it when I was coming up. Like, oh, I I missed that part. No, I did, I just didn't want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

And I think it does, you know, come to your point about commitment, and this it's the it's the critical piece in any kind of anything. It's just that, you know, when you make a decision with conviction that there is an outcome that you want, it doesn't matter. You don't need accountability like that person to be account. You you're only accountable to yourself at that point. And like you say, if you don't have the commitment to that, then it doesn't matter. What's the point? So absolutely, I agree that is a necessary ingredient for success.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

We

Listener Shout-Out And Practical Self-Management

SPEAKER_02 10:06

got to do the LM family member shout-out. And this one goes to Cindy Becerra, who is also a repeat offender. Cindy says, participated in the time management workshop, which really is a self-management workshop. Jesse taught me how to realistically assess my goals and break them down into steps, then gave me the how on scheduling them in my calendar. Cindy, sister, I appreciate you taking the time to leave the review and also for inviting me in to speak into your life. And folks, she is talking about the time management for construction workshop, which is a thing I do where I get to twist people's brains around. And also, like if when you leave a comment, the review, the stars and shares and all the thing, that is the ultimate gift for me because it helps me feel like I've touched you in some way, and it gives me an excuse to celebrate you on a future episode. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so you brought up an important point, and I know that you help teams build accountable teams and you help them build their leaders. What

Why Leaders Fail Without Clarity

SPEAKER_02 11:15

is it like, why did you decide to go after that?

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Yeah, I you know, the thing is, is like everything comes down to what did I learn and how can I share my my mistakes, my my missteps and learnings, you know, like how can I how can I share that? Because I I laugh at myself when I was when I was a leader in my own company in the early 2000s, like when I was just starting out and I was having employees, you know, I had I was really conscientious and I really cared about my people, and I had no idea what it looked like to actually be a leader. And so when I look at the industry around me and I see that, you know, everybody's pointing fingers and blaming and you know, all of the things, it's just like, what if we just brought it back, took responsibility, and everybody became responsible, accountable for their own shit? You know, like to be to be like, I don't have to look after you. It's not my job to look after you because you know your job, you're bought into it, and you will do what you're supposed to do. That is building accountability. So when I'm building this accountability within these teams, it's like every person in the team is very clear on what their job is. Like, this is my job, this is my role, this is how I contribute, and this is how I make a difference. They're really clear on that. And when they have that level of clarity, that makes them accountable to what it is that they need to do. When they lack that clarity, and it's not necessarily not being accountable, it's the fact that they really don't know. And until they know, like, yes, I sign up for this, then you can't really hold them to anything because it's on you as the leader who were not clear to begin with. So that's where everything starts. Everything starts. It's like you need the clarity. If you don't know, they don't know.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Yes, yes. And which again comes back to commitment, right? Like the clearer I am about the expectation, the more like I know, yes, I can commit to that, or hell no, I can't commit to that. Right? Like, like let's just take it into like personal relationships or dating. If I know that I've got to call you four times a day and respond to every text within two minutes, I cannot make that commitment because I'm not gonna do that. It's more than I'm prepared to do. So I could say, no, I'm out. Now, I know this is kind of silly, but I think to your point around clarity, if that's the expectation, but it's not communicated, and then I get in trouble for every you know, second that I lapse past the two-minute text response or not calling multiple times a day, I'm experiencing negative consequences that, but the commitment was never secured because there was no clarity on what the expectation was, which obviously I'm using a silly example, but in the workplace, it's exactly the same. Yeah.

unknown 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

It's like you're not agreeing to it. If you don't agree to it, then you can't be held to it. And that's and when you can get that clarity for your team and they're like, yes, this is what I'm saying yes to, then you can say, okay, you said yes to this, and these areas we're having some challenges with, you know, that's when you can have a real conversation. Until that point, you can't, you know, you can't, you can only point at yourself as a problem.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Right, right. And the great leaders. Have you seen this out there? There's a demographic of construction leaders out there that they seem to be the only ones that to always get the lowest skilled trade workers, staff, people that just don't care, people that don't have common sense, and it just seems to happen to them their entire career. You know any of those people?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Oh, yeah. Yes, nobody wants to work, nobody cares, nobody shows up on time, nobody really, really, really yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

My my question to them is like, okay, like, is that on this project? No, like every project I've ever been on. Like, are they all the same people? No. Like, so what's the common denominator?

SPEAKER_01 15:22

They don't like that. Like, to be fair, because this is so it's so rampant in our industry. Yes, like that's people are very quick to judge the workers coming up and pointing the fingers outward. And to be very fair, I think people don't know what they don't know. They don't realize that if they changed how they approach the situation from the leadership perspective, their people will show up differently. They don't get that. All they see is what's out there, and they don't recognize that it's a result of what they are or are not doing. So, yes, we see it everywhere. And it's just like it takes people like you and I to let people know no, no, no, no, no, what you don't understand is that if we did things just a little bit differently, like it's not huge, like just do it a little bit different, your people will show up differently.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Yes. Yes. Oh my God. Okay, so I gotta know.

From Operator To Coach And Back

SPEAKER_02 16:18

I know you had a successful exit of selling a uh business. So you've run teams, you've done what you coach on.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:26

Like, were you what grade were you in? Like fifth or sixth grade when you said, okay, I have all the skills to run a successful construction business. I'm gonna do that, I'm gonna scale it, I'm gonna sell it, and then I'm gonna coach people. How early in your life did you see that clear path?

SPEAKER_01 16:42

I'm gonna say T plus 10 minutes. It's like I'm always running 10 minutes behind. It's like, what's the next thing? I don't know. I'll let you know when I get there. You know, it's just like it's like every time you do something, it's just like, oh, you have this idea. And then you everything, everything always changes. Everything always, you know, there's all these iterations that you get clarity on, not now, but in 10 minutes. In 10 minutes, you know, it's always that it's that next thing that you are figuring out. And then you're like, oh, okay, now I see how this works. Now I can do something with it. It's just yeah, never, never anticipate it, never anticipated this. And at the same time, it's just like it gives me some excitement about what's coming next for me. Like as far as because I we did start our next HVAC company, so we're full on it.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Oh, nice!

SPEAKER_01 17:29

We did do that just at the beginning of the year. We started in it full time, so I have so much excitement about what I can build based on all the stuff I didn't know and came to late to, you know, like just like, oh, okay. So yeah, and never, never ahead of time.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yeah. Well, what I love about what you your path indicates is you did the thing, you learned from that, and then you're sharing that knowledge. Like that's one of the services you provide, right? Is coaching people. And then it's different than academic approach, right? Academic is I study the concepts and then I regurgitate and tell people these are the best practices, but I've never done it. Whereas you did it and learned, I'm assuming, learned maybe one or two lessons in the doing. Um or two, and then go and help people do that. And now you're going back and doing it again. So, in that process, what have you learned about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 18:26

God, I wish I could just give up sometimes. I just I just wish there was a part, like some days, I just wish there was a piece of me that was willing to quit. Because it is so some days are just so hard. And it's I don't I don't even know what it looks like to quit. And I've definitely looked, I've learned that about myself because as much as I've cried and I've beaten myself over the head, and I've just like just so many ways, I've tried so many different things in an effort to just take that next step. And there's times when I sit and it's like, okay, well, what if I just didn't do this anymore? And like that, and and it's like, okay, well, that's just not gonna happen. Like it's just it's just not an option. And so I definitely recognize that learned about myself that there is no quit, there's only resilience and perseverance and determination and focus and just like discipline to do all the things I don't want to do when I don't want to do them. Like

Resilience Fueled By Fear Of Judgment

SPEAKER_01 19:29

it's just it's taking my feelings out of the things that I do because it's part of the plan. Like all these things that I've learned to strengthen over time and I know are really hard. And they were hard in the beginning. And it's just like I can do anything, like I can do anything, and I know that because for all the things that I've survived, yeah. Let's do this again.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

So, where do you think that came from? I mean, I understand once you start doing it, you realize it. It's like, okay, yeah, this is I know how to overcome challenges and and deal with the losses and and shift and adjust. But the perseverance, where do you think that came from? Like it had start, did it start on in your first company or when you ran your first team, or did it start before that?

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Truthfully, for all of the things that I've learned about myself in over the years, I think my ability to not give up, to keep going and not quit is rooted in the fear of judgment from others. And this is what I've grown to recognize, and it's part of who I am as far as not giving up and never quitting, like it's become who I am. And I'd say the source of it started not in a healthy way. It was like I can't let other people see me fail. I can't look like a failure. Like that to me was like when we did have our business in 2000 like nine, 10, like when life was so incredibly hard because the market had shifted and everything, and people would look at me and talk to me about the successful business I had, and I'd be like, fuck, if you actually knew who this was, and it was the pressure, it was the pressure to continue to have this front because people have this perception of who I am. I can't very well let them see the truth. That that shit doesn't go away. I hope this is an e-rated no no, this is perfect, this is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

I like it.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Okay, so like that's that's just the the truth of it. Like, I in the beginning that's what it was.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

I think that's amazing, and I love the vulnerability because yes, like real talk, right? Fear of judgment. Now I'm gonna go another layer deeper if you'll allow me. I love it. What do those judgments sound like in your head? Because I know you. Playing some playlist when you're thinking about quitting, what does that sound like?

SPEAKER_01 22:05

It's not the one that plays as much anymore because I've really worked through a lot of it. But the in the beginning and where it was, is that, and I mean, we all deal with it, and I probably am still, of course, dealing with it now. I just I'm more aware of it, but it is the I'm not good enough. And am I not good enough? Like what I've learned through the work that I've done is that it's so interesting to me. I won't get into the long story, but it is like a when I was three years old, I think it was two and a half or three, my biological dad left. And what I learned through like doing hypnosis and doing all this work and like deep-seated gut work is that I had blamed myself for him leaving. It's just like if I was a good girl, if I had behaved myself, then he would have stayed. And my whole life, I always followed the rules. I like I skipped school once in all of my school history, and I went home and told my mom. I was like, I skipped school today and I got grounded. Like I and it was all and even to this day, like I will not cross a solid white line when I'm driving. Here in Canada, we have dashed lines. I know down the states, like your HOV lanes, for example, you don't have the dash line. So it's like I won't, I won't do, I do speed. I will go above the speed limit. That is one thing that I do. But when it comes to interaction with other people, like the way that I cross the lines or going in and outdoor, I will not go in and outdoor. I won't. It's just things, it's like these basic rules of life that I follow because if I'm good, then nobody will have a problem with me and they'll accept me, and then I'll be good and I won't be abandoned. Like it's this history of the root causes and where does it come from? And that's really the source of it. So that that thing that's running in my head when I was in the early years, when I was feeling like people were going to be, and I mean, even at the time, it's like I wasn't really aware that that's what I was thinking, is looking back and recognizing it. But it really was. It's just like even in high school, I had this like I had this inferiority complex. Like I wasn't good enough for the people that I was around. And like, you know, whether they had more money or they had fancier cars or bigger houses, you know, it's just like I always felt small. And I recognized through all the learnings that I've done is just that that's all about my perception of myself. That's about me. It's not anybody, nobody else cares.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Nobody sees that.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah, nobody does. It's just like it is 100% me. And when I can come to terms and accept myself and understand that I'm worthy just because I am, and you know, all of those things, when I get that, then it's like nothing else matters. And so now my inability to quit is because I know what I'm capable of. And I'm not, this is not gonna be the thing that breaks me. It's just like I'm gonna get through this too, just like I have everything else. Like just like because it's what I want.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Oh my goodness, Carly, thank you for for being so open because you know, I know that you're not the only one that feels that way, right? Like exactly, and and the like the listener, LM family member out there listening, like we have we all have baggage. You are enough, right? This that that the story playing in your head, you're the only one telling that story because everybody else sees greatness, and we just kind of gotta figure out how to reconcile that so that we can serve to the degree that that we can. And I'm super glad that you did and are doing that work, Corley, because I know it ain't easy, right? Similarly, my issue, it's abandonment, right? And it's it's exactly that. I'm not enough, I'll never be enough, because if I was, this wouldn't have happened. And so it's that kind of thing that's like I gotta do more, I gotta do more, I gotta do more to like earn favor or to earn people's time and all the things, which it used to be dirty fuel for me now because I've done a lot of damn work. It's like, you know what? I'm designed in such a way to serve in this manner, and some people are going to leave, and that's okay. And the ones that stick around, guess what? I'm gonna do my damnedest to provide a meaningful experience, but the things still ding around in my head. I mean, so you're a speaker, you've published books, you run a podcast, run a business, you do coaching. I'm gonna guess that you didn't take a course or get a certificate that qualified you to do all of those things. Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_01 26:44

It's a certificate of life, you know, like it's just it is the I guess I did get a I did get a coaching certificate. I did get but no, I mean this is it's lived experience. It's you know, it and it really does come from the fact that if I had to suffer in the ways that I had to suffer, I just don't want the next person to have to suffer the same way I did. Like, let me give you my experience, let me give you my answers, and then you go learn a new lesson or learn it in a different way. Like, just don't repeat what I had to go through. And like that, and that's kind of what when I got through, you know, we sold our business and look back and everything that we went through. It's just like, if I had to go through that, have it be for a reason, if I hold on to all of that and don't share it and and pretend it was all beautiful and perfect and lovely and you know, all those things, then I'm not doing a service to anybody. It's just like if I can, if I can, you know, justify the shit that I went through in order to save the next person, then let me just give you everything that I have. Everything.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Yeah, yes, beautiful. Now, we were talking about this before we hit record, about the community and like the construction community. And I'm gonna be maybe obtusely specific of the construction community on LinkedIn, and it's a growing community. It's inch, what's interesting, you know, there was a time in my life where I used to bully people that had internet friends, and and now all my friends I've met on the internet, which is totally you know different timeline.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Can I just insert something there just for a quick second? I'm gonna say that acknowledgement for you to say that is really critical because, and this is I think something that a lot of people don't understand is that if you don't change your mind, you're not growing. You know, like just changing your mind. Like, don't be so committed to what you believed yesterday because you think that you can't possibly change your mind because then you look like a you know a hypocrite. No, no, no, no. That's a sign of growth. So go ahead. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt it. I just wanted to point that out

Changing Construction Culture Through Connection

SPEAKER_01 28:57

because it's so important.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

No, thank you. And that's exactly it, right? There's some things now I think now that I have these beautiful highlights where I like change my mind, like intentionally, but most of the time, something changes my mind. Yes, like it wasn't optional. I was like, oh, I was looking at that wrong. Um that line of like changing minds, what I'm excited about is there are so many voices that are advocating for doing construction differently. The future that I see, and and I'm I'm curious to hear if you see the similar what I see happening right now is in the rooms that I'm in, you know, doing training, facilitating, coaching, all the things. It used to be where people sat with crossed arms and were kind of there because they, you know, just so they don't get fined.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Now what I'm seeing is people are there and they're curious and hungry and interested. And I think come to a point in our industry that people recognize that we can't keep doing it the way we've been doing it. And I'm talking specifically in the way we treat each other, in the way we demonstrate appreciation or fail to. And so there's an appetite for that. Like, I don't think people, most people can articulate it, but they just know like this sucks. I hate everybody, everybody hates me, and that's the game, and it's taxing and it sucks. And so they're starting to be open to okay, there's something different. And I also think the future is the leaders, the decision makers, not companies, because every company has cold spots and hot spots, but the leaders that commit to designing an experience where people are appreciated and supported, they are gonna win the talent game. So before I go further, what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Absolutely. I absolutely like it's just I I had a conversation with so I'm actually a fractional COO as well, so I work inside of companies and help them like from within. And so one of the I met with somebody recently that you know, she's doing a great job in her, she has an administrative role, she's doing a great job, but there's a lot of change going on, and she's like there's been a lot dumped on her. And we through restructuring, we did let one person go, and it was for not a lack of performance, it really was a restructuring issue. And she felt really threatened that she was going to lose her job because she felt like she wasn't performing and she was, you know, all these things. So I had my first meeting with her, like it was the first opportunity that I had to meet with her because there's a lot of other things going on. And so this is the first time I had a meeting with her, and I said to her towards the end of our conversation, I said to her, I said, What do you need? And she said to me, I just need to be acknowledged. I just and I was like, Yeah, you do. Like, no kidding. You know, it's it's not like the the way that we're going is not it's not soft, it's not weak. It is people wanting to make a difference. And the old school leaders, like I was, I 100%. I was that leader that thought, like, I give you a job, I give you a paycheck at the end of your why do I need to coddle you? Why do I need to appreciate you? Like, I was that person. Me too. Absolutely. And that's where the learning happens is that when you recognize it's just like, oh, wait just a second, this isn't about me. It's not what I think they need or should need. It's like what they actually need. And so when I turned it around and started listening to them and give them what they wanted and not what I thought they should want, everything changed for me. Because all of a sudden, it's like this barrier that I was holding up came down. I could create a true connection with my people. And it's just like that's where I could become that leader of service. It's like, let me help you be the best that you can be. So it's not, you know, where we see, you know, people kind of leaning in a bit because they do want to see what this difference looks like. I think it's because the people coming up, they're not putting up with the same things. They have higher expectations, they expect to be treated better, you know. And yes, there is a very fine line between that, that uh entitlement that I'm still, I still don't at all have any appreciation for, but there is a fine line between entitlement and what they deserve. They deserve to be acknowledged, appreciated, and you know, shown that yes, you are contributing to this team in a way that's really important. Thank you. Like it is not hard. And it goes a long way. So, yeah, you know, to your point, it's just like, yes, people are definitely wanting to see how this could be done a different way. And there's a lot of uncertainty as to what that means, what it looks like, and you know, how can I do it differently? Like, how can I do it differently?

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad you're out there helping. And I mean, I kind of back to like the mind shift, right? You experienced it. I was the same way. This was a few years back. I was doing uh uh training here in San Antonio at the local AGC thing, and I was talking about collaborative planning and you know, blah, blah, blah. And there was a guy in the back of the room, and I recognized him, and he recognized me like the whole day. It was a half day thing. He's looking and I'm looking at it, like, man, where do I know that guy? Finally, at the end, he comes up to me. He's like, Hey man, were you on such and such project? Like, yeah, and he says, You are not the same damn person. I said, What do you mean? He's like, I hated your ass. Oh wow because at the time was uh I was at I think I was a the plumbing foreman on that project, so it was way back, and I didn't give a shit about anybody, I didn't care about my people. Like, you were a tool to help me be successful. And if you got in the way, your ass was gone. You're the general contractor, I don't care. You're the framer, I don't care. I don't care unless you can help me meet my goal. And I treated everybody like that. And he was like, You're not the same human being. But to your point, there were experiences that I all of a sudden was like, man, if I just treat people better and listen to them a little bit more, I don't have to fight, and I'm not the bad guy. And I get swag and I get invited to lunch. Like, well, where was this my whole career? Like, I learned it too late. Um, now to you you commented that like it's what we need, betting it all on the fact that it's what's missing, it's connection that's what's missing in our industry, and that we can make it happen. What I recognize you do as doing on the socials, on LinkedIn with the podcasts and all the things is getting that message out. I think I'm doing the same thing. Now, there are people that are like, why do you spend so much time on the internet? That's stupid. And I'm like, okay, but I really think I'm having an effect, I'm having an impact. I know that you are, and I know that all the other creators out there are having an effect and an impact. Now, within that group, there's some folks that are like, man, it should only be these people. Look at all these new people, they shouldn't be here. What do you think about that? How do you see what would you recommend so that we can actually continue this wave of change that we're like on the precipice of?

SPEAKER_01 36:33

So it is interesting because I am of the opinion, like business coaches are everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

And I tell you, I had my backup with people who would like have their MBA and they would become in a business coach. I'd be like, you have not been in the trenches. You don't know what it's like to cry yourself to sleep at night, to wake up two hours later thinking about how am I going to meet payroll and I got to collect this check and don't forget this guy's off sick today, and don't forget this, and I wonder this, like all of the shit that goes through your head all at the same time at two o'clock in the morning. If you don't experience that, how can you bring me value because you've just not been in

Who Belongs In The Industry Conversation

SPEAKER_01 37:13

my shoes? And and so there's a little piece of me that believes that, yes. I I think that it like in for me, people I have been on site, you know, I'm not a skilled tradesperson. I my background is in building envelope. So I have I've done project management, did construction management, I've done a lot of different things, and I have certainly been on a lot of construction sites, never full time. And at the same time, so I you know, I can see people looking at me and going like, yeah, but you've not been in the trades. And what I what I recognize and acknowledge is that through all of this, it's just like, does it really matter? At the end of the day, at the end of the day, this industry needs to be improved. And if it is somebody who comes from the, you know, comes from the spa industry and is all of a sudden a business coach in the in the construction industry and is helping somebody, like, does it really matter?

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

You know, it's still something I grapple with because it because it's like me and all of those people who like, you gotta hold fast onto the shit that I went through and you didn't go through the shit and you need to do your time, you know, all that stuff.

unknown 38:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

And at the same time, it's like maybe that's me. Like maybe that's my problem, not theirs. Because if they're there to help the industry, then who am I to say who belongs and who doesn't? As long as I can serve, like I know one of the biggest impacts I have is the fact that I can speak the language, I understand my people. And when I when I can connect with a young trades, most of them have been tradesmen. Like I've worked with one tradeswoman on the like leadership, like treat in the leadership training capacity, but most of them have been tradesmen. And I tell you, it's like maybe part of it is that they see me as a mother figure, but I have been able to connect with them in a way that is safe. I've had full-grown men cry in my presence and have never ever wouldn't ever consider doing that. And for me, it's just like if I can create that space where you can be not okay for a minute, then let's talk. Because there's so much, there's so much of the toxic masculinity still, even when we have really great men as leaders, I think a lot of people still just don't feel safe to be vulnerable because even our great male leaders have a hard time showing that level of vulnerability to their people.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

And even when I have these conversations with leaders, like this, you know, we talk about vulnerability like that. I this is the key to your success as a leader. And when you can show that you know how to be human, that you're not going to have all the answers, that you're going to have a hard day. And it's within, I mean, you have to be

Vulnerability As The Start Of Trust

SPEAKER_01 39:53

very discerning as to what you're showing and sharing all that. But when you allow yourself to show that level of vulnerability that you don't have all your shit together all the time either, and you've suffered as well, like just showing that you're human, that's when you create the this the trust, the safety. I read something today actually that said about with regard to the construction industry and building trust. It said trust starts with honesty. And it's like I disagree. I think trust starts with vulnerability.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

100%.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Vulnerability, yes, is partially honesty, yes, but that's not the root of it. You need to go deeper, you need to allow yourself to actually be vulnerable and not see it as a weakness and don't think you're gonna be perceived as weak if you show it. Like it's just it is interesting because the our people need people who are gonna be vulnerable so that they feel safe to also be vulnerable because otherwise they won't and they will suffer. And that's that's where you know. I don't care if you have 20 years in the industry, zero in years in the industry. If you can affect that change, I'm all for it. I don't get for it. I don't care who you are, come in, let's fix that. Like that's that's it.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

Yeah, a hundred percent. You know, the the I've had some significant mind shifts in my life that that changed the trajectory of of who I am. The most significant one was learning that I was not vulnerable. I swear I had an ex who said that I was the least vulnerable human being she ever met.

unknown 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

And I said, Well, what does that mean, right? So, of course, Brene Brown, I started looking up vulnerability, and then I read what daring, daring greatly or whatever it was, and I'm like, oh crap, she was right. Like, yeah, I am not like it was just it was like Brene Brown did research and used me as the as the research dummy, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:55

Subject. We call it a subject.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Thank you, thank you. And at the same time, I was wrestling with addiction. And I had a counselor tell me, like, Jesse, your problem is not admitting, your problem is that you haven't accepted. I said, What the hell are you talking about? He says, You've admitted that you're an alcoholic, that you're an addict. He said, But you haven't accepted that if you continue living life the way you're living it, you will never become the promise you're intended to be. Living, he didn't say, Jesse, you need to stop womanizing, stop drinking, stop. He didn't say that. He said, if you continue living your life the way you're living it. And I knew exactly like it was the clearest words I've ever heard him. I knew exactly what he was talking about. And what I needed to do, because this kind of the way life is, right? Happened around the same time. It was like serendipity, perfect timing. Always is right. And so what I needed to do was start letting people in.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

Now I had a massive, massive fear of abandonment. So I had all these mechanisms set up so that I never had the attachment, so that I never felt abandoned. So I had to be vulnerable to start letting people in. I had to learn how to say, I don't know. I had to learn how to say I need help. And little by little, like vulnerability is not me crying and spilling my guts every time I talk to somebody. It's often as simple as saying, man, I don't know how to do this thing. Can you help me? Right. Or I'm screwed up yesterday because of XYZ, which as leaders, it's hard for us to see, right? Like our words and our behaviors are amplified by our position, by our titles, by our roles. And so our people, I mean, I remember looking up to my bosses, and they were like the titans of the industry. Like one day when I grow up, I can be like them. And then I got to their level, and I know I'm still the same dummy that I was, you know, five or ten. Years ago, and I don't see myself the way my people saw me. And so when what you said, if when I just demonstrate some vulnerability and show that I'm human too, all of a sudden I'm giving permission to everybody on the team or within you know my circle to say, Oh, it's okay to be human. Yeah, it's okay to be a little messy and not be perfect. And then the magic starts.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Well, you know, it is so true because the the your ability to say, I don't know, like that's that's the primary example that I use when I introduce this idea of vulnerability to people who are leaders coming up. It's just like all it means is you're saying, that's a great question. Let me check. I don't know. When you, as a leader, take 100% responsibility for the failure of your team, and what that looks like is, you know, somebody did something that they you know they should have known better. They're a journey person, and that is what's definitely within their skill set, and they should have known. And they're a really great person, and it's a one-time thing and all those things. So you go to them and you say, you know what, clearly I failed to communicate something to you here. And just doing something as simple as that, like taking responsibility for their failure, it all of a sudden it's just like now they don't have to get up, they're back up and get defensive. It's like, okay, like they're acknowledging that maybe they could have helped me a bit more, even if you recognize they didn't need to. It's just it opens the pathway for conversation. It's just like, you know what? Clearly, I miscommunicated something here, or I thought that maybe you understood something here and you don't. Sorry, that's on me. How can I help you not to do this again next time? So, one, you're showing as a leader, you're showing that you did something wrong and you are opening up that whole thing of vulnerability. I was wrong. That's on me. And then two, they feel safe to say, hey, they feel supported and like, you know what, I really messed that up. I really should have known. You're right. I'm gonna make sure it never happens again. It's like it's a productive conversation as opposed to you should have known better. You're a journey, man. This is something you should know, blah, blah, blah. You know, because we've all seen and heard that. It's just like right, I should have known, but that's not productive. It's just like, how can we actually learn and grow and create trust? And that creates trust when you're willing to take the hit for your team where they messed up.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Yes. And like the peripheral benefits. If I know it's like my head is not gonna get chopped off and I'm not gonna get chastised when I surface a problem, guess what? I'm gonna bring problems earlier. And guess what?

SPEAKER_01 46:44

That's a good thing. That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Right, that's a good thing. Yes, whereas the other, and I've lived it, right? I used to get really frustrated because the guys would hide the problems. And like, why didn't you tell me sooner? Because I would lose it. I would yell and get mad and throw my hard hat and have a temper tantrum. So, of course, they were gonna hide the problems. And we see it, I mean, you've seen it, I see it all the time. It's like, why do they do that? Why do they wait till the last minute? It's like, because of that. Like, stop yelling and screaming, like, create the conditions where people feel safe to be human, to say, hey, I made a mistake, hey, there's an issue. Because now you can be like you can get in front of the things, and they're not impacting production, they're not impacting the bottom line, and more importantly, you're not degrading, minimizing the human experience. Simple but hard, right? New habits to be built.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

Now, simple, not easy.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Simple, not easy. Now, another point I stole off of your LinkedIn was you help improve culture and retention without adding complexity. So, why does it all and again this is my assumption and I'm being judgy. Why does it seem like the solution to any culture retention problem has to be complex with a new app, a new CRM, a new freaking department?

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Why new this and spending money on that? And yeah, and I think it comes back to that whole thing we spoke about earlier is that leaders don't know what they don't know, and they don't recognize it is as simple as creating that connection with your people. And just the conversation we just had, you know, allowing yourself to be vulnerable, connect with them, see them, hear them, you know, listen to what their goals are, you know, actually create a plan

Culture And Retention Without Complexity

SPEAKER_01 48:38

for where they want to go, whether it be within your company, within the industry, or in their life. Like it's the simple things. It's just having a conversation that, you know, all of a sudden your your people are going to be like, oh, maybe he actually really cares. Because people feel like a number, you know, even when you're in small companies, like they feel like they're, you know, they're working for the pocketbook of the owner. And that's why so many people are leaving and starting their own thing. Well, I don't, I may as well make that money for myself. Please don't. Like, just please don't. Go find a better employer. Like, go find a better employer. Because there are some out there that really do care, that really do want you to make as much money as you can make, and they will help you get there. They'll lay it out. There is that, you know. So, yes, the the whole culture and retention and keeping, you know, good people, all of that stuff just comes down to doing a few simple things. And one, it's just like one, simplify your structure, like that simplicity itself, like just like there's so much shit that gets like caught up in how we do things. And it's just like, can we just strip it all away and focus on what's really important? What's really important is people know what their job is, how they contribute, what they're supposed to do on a day-to-day basis, who they talk to on a day-to-day basis, and let's just do some work. Like, God, there's so many, there's so many levels of shit that gets lost in trying to implement and clarify. And it's just not at all the case. It's just like if we can just strip away and just keep things really simple, it's scalable, and you know, your people are gonna stick around, the right people are gonna stick around. You're gonna lose people in the in those, and that's perfect. Those are the people you want to lose. The good people are gonna be like signing on, let's go. Where do you want me to start? You know, where can I take this?

SPEAKER_02 50:23

You know, that's yes, yes, yes, yes. I've seen it. We uh way back, like we were pissing and moaning about foreman not knowing how to do their job. And it was my experience, right? I'd go, I was a foreman and I go to the monthly job review so we could check the budget health. And everybody told me that I sucked and I needed to plan better, but nobody could tell me how to plan better. They just told me that I needed to. And so I figured out how to plan better, right? And da-da-da-da-da. So then, fast forward, I had a lot of influence now within that organization, and so we rolled out training to train, like to go from installer to foreman, from foreman to superintendent. These are the responsibilities, this is how you do it, these are the expectations, and we're going to monitor it. We had a we had several long-term people quit because they're like, Well, you know, you're micromanaging and whatever, whatever. It's like, no, but like this is the expectation of the role now. If you don't want to do this, you don't have to. Yeah, you can you can go back and install, right? But a foreman and a superintendent do these things here. And several of them quit quit the company. It was too much stress adhering to that. But everybody else was like, Man, this is now I know what I need to do. Now I know how to do it. I'm gonna go do it. Like, totally different situation. We didn't have to add fancy crap. It was let's make some investment, let's slow down, let's connect with the people, yeah, and serve them.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

Yes, yes. You know, exactly what you said there, and I think that this is the root of it all is connection. Humans need that connection, we long for it, and I think we long for it even more so today than we ever have because so much time is spent online, which is by the nature of the time we spend on there, is disconnection. So the more that we disconnect by being online and disengage, it's like we need to amp it up and ramp it up to get that to balance it with more connection. So when we see in our industry, people are like gruff and grumpy and don't want to give back, they don't want to mentor, they want to keep their secrets and all of that stuff, there's zero connection. And everybody on site feels it. And so everybody feels like they're operating on their own. And so when you can start to just introduce what connection can look like, and it starts with the leaders, it's like, you know, like one of the people that I work with, you know, he went on to a job, one of the leaders I work with, he went on to one of his job sites and just like had a conversation with one of his journeymen that was on site. And he came back and he's like, that was a great conversation. It's like, yes, this is what you as the leader need to be doing is having these conversations and just learning about people and understanding what they're doing and where they want to go, and like just let them talk about themselves for a few minutes and they'll be like, that guy's amazing. And they've connected. Like it's not it's not any kind of in-depth formal coaching conversation, it's just being human. And our people need that, that's what they need. And the construction industry for all of its history has not encouraged connection because for the longest time it's not what the people weren't coming to work to look for that. People got that outside of work. Now, with the people who are coming in, the nature of the fact that when they're outside of work, they're largely disconnected because they spend so much time on their phone. So now where do they find that connection? Well, it's going to be at work, that's gonna be a great source for them to find the connection. And yeah, it's it's a huge response.

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Yeah, I'm with you, sister, and I'm glad that you're out there doing amazing things to close that gap. I know there's a bunch of people doing the same thing. We just need to support each other to get there.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Um, so are you ready for the Grand Slam closing question?

SPEAKER_01 54:11

I am, yes.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

Okay, what is the promise you are intended to be?

SPEAKER_01 54:19

The promise I am intended to be. You know what? My biggest asset, my biggest quality is that ability to connect with people on a meaningful level. And it like on the weekend, I had a conversation with somebody who she sent me an email this morning saying, Thank you for that. I never opened up to anybody about this before. It's the first time she felt like she was, she had never shared what she shared with me in that moment. And I was like, you know, to be that place where people can feel safe, where people can feel relief, where people can feel it's okay to not be okay and receive, be willing to receive the support that is available that I will provide anybody in our industry is just like I am here to support you,

Becoming The Promise You Are Meant To Be

SPEAKER_01 55:10

I am here to make you be the best version of you you can be. And it's going to be a messy middle, and that's 100% good and okay, because that's the reality. And so the promise that is through me is that I will always uh make a safe space for people to be their. I don't like the term authentic, but to live their reality in a place where they don't have to feel judged, they don't have to feel like they shouldn't feel like this because I think judgment, like I used to be a very judgy person. I remember saying to a friend of mine once, yes, I judge people. Yes, like if I had to do all this work, why shouldn't they have to do the work too? I remember saying that. And then, of course, you know, like you said, no lesson is ever, oh, this is a nice idea. Maybe I'll try this instead. No, every lesson is given to you in a way that's like a kick in the teeth. And so, and I have judgment, I I judge nobody. I judge nobody. I don't care if you're homeless on the street or if you are maybe not the White House, but we'll say, we'll say Parliament in Canada. You know, I will give you the same level of respect because you are human, because you have your own experience. And who am I to say if that's right or wrong? Who am I to judge your decisions, the experience you've had, everything that you've had to deal with? Because at the end of the day, everybody is doing their best, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

Yes. Oh my God. I'm not surprised by your answer. I'm I'm enthused, excited about it. And I'm hoping the listener, LM family member out there, listeners like, oh my God, I need to talk to Cora Lee. Because I I feel it. You know, we've interacted here that we've done on the thing. I've seen the impact and the influence on several people that I interact with. And it's like, yeah, Coralie was my coach. Like, she's got game, like she you have a lot of impact out there. So for that person that's saying, Man, I need she's speaking my language, I like that flavor. Where do we send them? How do they get a hold of you, Coralie?

SPEAKER_01 57:11

Well, LinkedIn is like a I'm pretty easy to find because Coralie Beattie, I'm one of one. So, you know, if you if you Google me, if you Google me, like the first five or seven pages is like all me. Like you cannot escape me. You cannot not find me. So yeah, just you can Google my name and come to my website. LinkedIn is an easy place. Instagram, you know, like I'm I'm Coraly Beattie everywhere. So yeah, just be anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

I'll make sure that we have all the links in the show notes because I know there's people that you can serve, you're already doing it, and there's so many more. Like I'm grateful to you for committing the time and energy. Like you're starting a new business and you're coaching people. You you're doing a lot, and I know that's not easy. So I'm grateful to you, Ms. Coralie, for the sacrifice that you make to serve the industry the way that you do. So thank you. Did you have fun?

SPEAKER_01 58:06

This is great, Jesse. I'm so glad that we got a chance to finally have like

Where To Find Coralie And Final Thanks

SPEAKER_01 58:10

this conversation, and I look forward to more conversations in the future.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

Absolutely. Before you go, I want to thank you for spending part of your day with me. Your time and attention mean a ton, and it's because of listeners like you that this podcast even exists. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the Learn Inns and Missteps podcast so you never miss an episode and you get extra credit if you share it with your friends. Also, if you want even more insights on leadership, personal growth, communication, you know, all those fancy magical things, you can sign up for my newsletter on LinkedIn because I got a newsletter that goes out every single Monday. All the resources I share there are designed to help you put yourself first so that you can leave this world better than you found it. There's also a digital copy of my book, Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be. And it's sitting there waiting for you on my website. All you gotta do is do the click and do the download, and you get the free PDF. And if you want even more bonus points, share that PDF with somebody you know or the family of somebody you know that is currently struggling with self-destructive behavior. That would be the ultimate gift for me. While you're there, do some exploring of the trainings, workshops, and services that are designed to enhance your performance at home and at work. Just click the link in the show notes to check it out. Thanks again for listening. Take care of yourself, and I'll see you on the next episode. Peace.