Episode 7 - Growth in any environment: Communication, Leadership, and Strategy with Safety Expert Ian Smith

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You are listening to the Learnins and Missteps podcast, where we intend to change the image of careers in the trades. Each of the inspirational stories is designed to celebrate the real men and women who have built careers in the construction industry and how they impact the world around them. These stories are brought to you by three brothers who share a mother. I am Jesse, your host. Our in-house writer is Ernest, aka La Voz. Hello. And our co-host is Renee. What's up? Y'all ready? Yes, sir. Hey Jesse, what's in store with this new episode? Well, on this new episode, we get a cameo from the Raptors. Renee's little babies make a showing in the background, which is kind of fun. But we also get to hear Ian Smith advise Renee, and Renee kind of gets some insight and a deeper understanding of like that guy really cares about the people he's responsible to. And then Ian really shows some deep sensitivity and deep care for people. It's very easy for folks to assume that safety people don't really care. After you listen to this episode, there will be no doubt in your mind that Ian cares. You ready to check it out? Let's do this. But Ian, again, thanks for making the time on a Saturday morning to record this. And so what do you want our listeners or people out there to know about you?

SPEAKER_03 1:49

You know, I I I know we're talking about you know our journey. And uh I you know, I want to share a little bit about as far back as I can remember, Jesse, of where I wanted to be in my life. And I'll tell you, I don't know that I really had a plan. Uh I think back, I think back to when I was a kid. You know, I grew up in Connecticut in central Connecticut. Both of my parents had jobs. My father worked two jobs uh for a good amount of time, uh, one at the Postal Service and then a night job. And my mom worked for 30 years at the library uh in our in our hometown. And I have two brothers, uh, one older and one younger than me. And early on, what I saw, right, and it's it's so ingrained in my mind was how hard my father and my mother worked to provide for us, right? And I I think back, and it wasn't necessarily about advancing at that time, it was more about surviving and being able to provide for us as as young kids. And you can imagine three boys, the amount of food and and things they had to do to provide for us and clothes, right? I remember, you know, wearing hand-me-downs and drinking three gallons of milk uh every two days, right? I mean, we were we were a handful, I'm sure, to support. And uh, I'll tell you, my parents worked really hard and to provide for us during those times. And, you know, when I went to school, uh, I've all I've always been a good student. Uh, I've always been actually thinking back, really sensitive and and really in touch with my with my feelings. And I think I get that from both of my parents. And as I progressed, um, you know, I was always average. I did well in sports at the you know, at a younger age. I I did pretty well in baseball. I played baseball uh from an early age. I played uh pop warner football uh from an early age, and and we were always active, which you know was was kept our minds and bodies, I think, in check, right? My parents wanted us to have our energy be displayed somewhere other than at the house, right? Because you can imagine we're a pretty rambunctious bunch bunch of kids. Um and you know what I remember was you know when I hit around high school, you know, early on, I I started thinking because my bro my older brother had just graduated and he started going to community college, uh Middlesex, uh community college in in uh Middletown, Connecticut. And he was kind of on a precarious path, right? I've always looked up to my older brother. Uh his name's Jamie, and you know, he he really was trying to find his own path. And I was the I'm the middle child, right? So I'm watching my brother trying to navigate life, and uh, you know, I don't think it was as easy as on him, right? Being the first out of the gate. And uh, you know, he really trailblazed a lot of things for both myself and my younger brother. And him and I have had always worked from early age, right? And again, I go back to that work ethic I saw my parents have. We both had paper routes as young kids. I worked early on at a at a greenhouse with my brother uh that that uh does wholesale actually at a retail shop up front, and we worked our tails off, right? Every every chance we got, I made $4.27 an hour. You know, I didn't ask for a raise ever. And by the time I realized it, my my boss had asked, he got he looked at my paychecks and said, We didn't ever give you a raise, only 427 an hour. I said, Yeah, I thought that was what you wanted to pay me, right? And yeah, he gave me like a two dollar an hour raise after that, right? So that means, but that's the kind of grind my mindset was, right? I saw my parents grind it out and work and never complain, they just did it, and I never thought to ask for anything, right? I just knew I was I I had a job, I was thankful to have a job as a young kid in in middle school and high school, and I was happy to earn some of my own money, right? Because I you know, I we didn't have any extra money for stuff, right? And I didn't have the Z Cavarici and the and uh I didn't have the the I didn't you know I had Stan Smith's, that was probably the nicest thing that I owned, right? It was the way with the green backs, right? I mean, I and I didn't have the the the greatest stuff, so you know I had to earn my own money, right? And I think you know, early on my brother and I, you know, we we learned that we needed to work hard, right? And and uh we just did it and never really complained, never just put our heads down. And honestly, I enjoyed that hard labor. I think back to some of those times, it was probably one of the most enjoyable times of my life. Renee, I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but uh in my job, and I'm sure Jesse can say uh my job now is a lot of talking. When I went to the greenhouse, nobody talked to me. I was able to listen to the music all day, and the plants didn't yell at me, the plants didn't feedback, right? Other than if they were dying, right? That was their feedback they were giving.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

They didn't cuss you out and roll their eyes up.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

Yeah, they didn't give me a few hat on the floor. Yeah, they did none of that right, right? And I'll tell you, there was nothing more than a high when you walked into a greenhouse and you had that oxygen lift. I mean, it it just hits you in the face, and like all of a sudden you get this like super energy, right? I mean, that Carrie Ford, I told you my brother went to Middlesex Community College. He ended up dropping out of uh of community college to work, which you know was his path, right? College is not for everybody, you know. Early on, you know, I think talking to him now, he he relishes that and wish he could go back and he had if he had had a chance, go back to a trade school, right? And earn some type of skill, right? And and and grow himself in that matter. I ended up going and you know, in high school, I didn't really know what I want to do. By senior year, we couldn't afford for my, you know, there's a lot of schools in the northeast. And uh I got into a pretty pretty good school in Worcester Mass. You know, I had applied to a college called Assumption College. We just couldn't flat out afford it. We couldn't make it work, it was like $20,000 a year. It just was not gonna, it wasn't gonna work for us, right? And and I ended up going to Eastern Connecticut, which was 45 minutes away from where I live. And I I'll tell you, it was probably the best decision that I ever made in my life. Being close enough to home to go home, right, and and be grounded with my family, but be far enough away to be able to try life out, right, on my own for the first time. And I'm very thankful for that opportunity because it was enabled me to grow as an individual. Because up until that point, you didn't leave my hometown, guys, right? You didn't leave Cromwell, Connecticut. That was not a place to get left, right? You were centered around there. Um, other than family vacation, yeah, other than family vacations, there was no getting out of it, right? So this was like my first real adventure as an adult. You know, I was very thankful for that. And I by by the time we got into college, I already knew that I wanted to go into environmental. So I ended up in a biology and chemistry degree track. And uh, and Jesse, you might appreciate about this about me, because I know you know me a lot more if you if you've listened to me or you've interacted with me in the past. My mind churns a lot, right? And I'm putting things together in logical steps, right? And I'm I'm thinking about every single thing that I'm doing and or the things that are going around me. And I'm trying to put it all together logically in a process, in a procedure, in a whatever it is. So science fit me really well, right? And I'll tell you, in school, uh I really excelled right in the in the science, uh, in the science field. And I was able to uh really uh dive in a little bit deeper. And I really enjoyed going to Eastern because they had passed your first two years, right? Which is pretty much your weeding out classes, right? If you didn't if you didn't pass organic chem or you didn't pass organic or uh organismal biology, you had to change your major, right? You go into sports, uh whatever, right? Or sports, sports science. Or yeah, sports science or communication, right? Communications.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Whatever that meant. Like those are the classes I would have had to take. You know, I and as I progress, so like junior, senior year, you know, I'm taking like physics with calculus without ever taking calculus before. You know, I ended up doing field studies and and we had some really I really enjoyed the work, right? Getting out into the field, you know, going to collect data, you know, scientifically plotting it out, you know, trying to do experiments, Jesse. We I mean, one time we were trying to understand how much how much a mouse expended their energy, depending on what you fed them and how much energy caloric value the food had, and then what the actual caloric value was and what the you know the the expert was of the mouse, right? You try to figure out how much that mouse expended in everything that goes into the the scientific method, right? Trying to figure it out. So a lot of experiments, right? Trying to figure that stuff out. And uh, I also was able to take a class and do an independent study on cutting out a a portion of a gene of a of a circular plasmin of uh of of the uh tobacco leaf. I was trying to make a broadleaf into a club foot and taking taking a DNA out and inserting your own DNA into it, right? So it would be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Wait, did you say take a DNA out? Did you say you're taking a DNA? How do you do that?

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Like yeah, so you got to use uh enzymes, right? And then what you do is you there's enzymes that attack a certain part of the chain of the DNA, and then you're able to extract it, you got to spin it down, and then you got to insert uh your own, you know, your own link of DNA, right? And your hope is that you've modified uh that that plant, right? Or whatever the DNA of the organism is, right?

SPEAKER_04 12:46

So you know this is well, that's pretty fancy, man.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Well, it was fascinating to me because you know, like I told you earlier, I started leaning towards this botany side of things, right? Because I told you earlier I worked at in greenhouses all my life. So it's interesting how as I progressed in college, I went towards the plants, right? Yeah, I went towards that side of things because that's I'll tell you, that was something I really, really enjoyed. You know, those types of experiences uh really really shaped the how I think and how I feel and what I learned, right? And probably they really affected who I am today in my path now. But I'll tell you, my my career took a precarious turn, which was which is pretty interesting because before I left school, I did a co-op with a company called Pratt Whitney. They make uh aircraft engines for cross commercial and and military, and uh I'm in the environmental department there, and I learned a ton from them. It was a great experience, but there wasn't opportunities there for me, and I was looking for work. The co-op was ending. I was graduating, you know, being in Connecticut, it's not like jobs are a plenty uh at the time. And somebody said, Hey, I I know this company I used to work for uh named Chinbro, and and Chinbro is a road and bridge contractor, do a lot of civil work. Uh mainly they're actually based out of Pittsfield, Maine. And they have uh they had two other offices at the time, one in Bloomfield, Connecticut, which was you know not far from where I grew up. At the time, it was a great option for me because the honest truth is when I tried to go get that biology to grow up, uh biology botany job, Renee. My first job offer was $28,000 to be the head grower at a at a at a wholesale flower grower, right? And I don't know about you, I couldn't live off of $28,000.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

And that's with the degree, you had like a degree?

SPEAKER_00 14:51

No, that's like $1345 an hour.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Well, what I foresee, I foresee Ian Smith living in his parents' basements for the next 10 years, right? That's what it's all thinking.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

But you could have had plants in the basement with yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Yeah, that I I'll give you that, Jesse. I could have had just to keep me company, that's for sure. But I but but I'll tell you, I think what I realized, my father always wanted me to do better than he did, right? So I didn't want to settle, you know. He worked his tail off for me to go get a four-year degree. My mother worked her tail off and wanted me to do something better than they could have ever achieved. That in the back of my mind wanted me to continue and grow and do something bigger, right? Than than anybody else in my family had done to that point. So I did take that job with Chinbro. Uh, I did I, you know, I did I did gotten a pay increase, which was great, and I was happy with what I was making. Uh, but even back then, I think it was like 38,000. So it wasn't like I was rolling in the dough, right? But I remember buying my first Nissan Maxima used, right? It was like the biggest windfall. I thought I was a player back then, Jesse. Uh uh with the the, you know, it kind of came up automatically when you turned the radio on. I mean, I thought I was uh baller.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Man, yeah, I was a baller back then. I was I was put any neon lights on the bottom.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Oh no, no, I couldn't afford that, Jesse. That was okay, okay. I put the rate, I put the radio in, right, with the removable face, you know, the yeah. Oh yeah, you know, I was I thought that was hot back then, right? That was that was cool. But I'll tell you, I for my first job out of the gate, and you gotta realize I I didn't, and this was a my it was a safety role. I had nothing, I had no idea about safety, guys. Zero clue. Zero clue.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

So you went you went from splitting DNA into a safety role, and you had immense knowledge on the scientific method and and doing stuff with the blunt botany, and then boom, hard shift to safety with no background, it's a job.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Never worked construction a day in my life, never wow, never done any of it at all, right? I remember walking into the role thinking, ah, I could do this, no problem, right? I'll attack this. You know, I was I was cocky, right? I'm not gonna lie, 22-year-old Ian Smith. Boy, he was a trip, you know. He he was an interesting character. And uh, but I could I could figure it out. And uh, I remember my the first job they put me on was a road and bridge job. We were redoing the the granite along there's a bridge between Agawam and Springfield, Massachusetts, and we're doing it nights. It was six to six, four days a week at night, right? Uh, through the winter, we had to do lead abatement, we had to install new granite sidewalks, i mean, a curb. It was it was pretty tough, right? It was over the river.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

What was the winter like? Because you know, we're we're in Texas now. Um, and and winter, like we have a different definition of winter. What was that like?

SPEAKER_03 18:12

My first couple winters here, Jesse, in Texas, and I moved here in 04. I remember when I when I we uh first moved into our home in 05, uh it snowed out, and this is probably a good example of of the winters here in Texas. I got my my winter clothes on. Of course, at the time I still had like 20 jackets I bought from Connecticut, right? Like heavy duty, you know, I had overalls and you name it, right? I had stuff still. I got out, I I had a my usual shovel because I couldn't find a snow shovel at Lowe's or Home Depot, right? They don't sell them here, right? You know, fine. And I'm out there shoveling my driveway in my my front stoop because there was an inch of snow out there, and I'm looking around and everywhere, and uh there's nobody else shoveling their driveway or their sidewalk. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, in Connecticut, you get fined for not doing, right? Because the mailman is gonna slip and fall. So I get in and I tell my wife, I tell her, I said, nobody's out there, you know, shoveling out. And she goes, Look, by this afternoon, this the snow's gonna melt. So nobody goes out and shovels their driveway or their sidewalk, right? And sure enough, the afternoon comes along, sun comes up, everything melts, right? So if winter's in Texas, if that describes anything, that that's how it is here. But growing up, I remember working for a landscaping company during the the snowfall, right? You were on call. I mean, I remember that's how I made money, right? I mean, it went out and shoveled three foot of snow or two foot of snow. So winters, winters at that time were pretty cold, right? And then at one point, I had to man the boat, the rescue boat down below in the water, right? And in the river and uh in the middle of winter, and uh it was not fun, right? I mean, you you wore, I don't know how many layers there were at that point, like three or four, right? Just to stay warm and you had a big mug of coffee, right? So you're ready to go. You know, I'm thankful for the the winners in Texas because uh it's one of the reasons I moved here, other than my wife. But I think back to that job, Jesse. It was a real, I mean, it was like a crash course, man. I remember, and you probably can hear me now, right? I'm very vocal, I I talk a lot in my role. I was painfully shy, Renee. I literally, I remember the first couple weeks at that job, I practiced for at least a half hour to call it order safety glasses. Whoa. I said, okay, I'm gonna write the model down. I wrote out what I was gonna tell the guy. I didn't want to sound stupid, right? Because I didn't know the vernacular, right? And if anything you know about construction, there we have a name, four or five names for everything. And they all make pretty logical sense. When somebody tells you what it's something is, it's exactly what it does, typically, right? And that's right, there's probably an official name for it, but that's not what people call it, right? They call it whatever they think it is, right? So it took a long learning curve, just like you know, first six months, just to figure that out, right? Or what things were called, what it is. But here I'm a 22-year-old kid trying to keep you know a crew of 25 people safe. And I'll tell you, I think back to that, we got plain lucky because I didn't know what I was doing, guys. I really didn't. I really didn't know. And I I feel poorly for those people, right? I think back, I mean, I I was probably the worst safety manager they ever met in their life, right? Other than being one of the guys, right? I mean, I I didn't know how to how to manage people, I didn't know how to communicate, I didn't have any tools in my tools. Box, I could speak to plants.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Um obviously, yeah, yeah, you know, Renee and I, the the last episode that we just posted, we talked a little bit about the really uncomfortable sense or sensation of growing into a leadership role. You're talking about it's that's fundamental, right? The the communication skills 100 and like I don't know what the hell I'm doing, but I'm just gonna try. I it's I mean it's a real thing, you know. Renee's commented like one of the things that he likes about doing this podcast is that it's helping him build his communication skills. Well, yeah, all right. You know, I wonder how many people struggle with that. You know, earlier, Ian, you said you didn't have a plan, but as you're talking, and I and I've worked with you, right? So I like it's clear to me that you got a plan and it's a long-term vision plan all the time. Yeah, um, but what you're saying now is like, yeah, you had a plan, like you would even plan out your conversation. Oh, absolutely to order safety glasses, yes, right? Like and that and for our listeners, that might sound goofy or over the top, but I do the same thing now. Like when I'm gonna do a presentation or have a meeting, had a meeting earlier this week with um, you know, with the high-powered audience, and you better believe I was outlining what message I wanted to say beforehand so that I can so I could communicate my message, right? Right, you can't order safety glasses. Hey, bro, can I need 10 of those safety glasses? You know, the ones that are kind of kind of smoky but not totally shaded, look, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:44

And yeah, well, you should have heard my wording back then, Jesse. But I can appreciate what you're saying because if I reflect back to that time, it was more at that time the planning that I was doing was just to survive, if that makes any sense, right? I was trying to I was trying to fake it to make it at that point, right? And the only way I knew how to do that is to rely on what I knew in the past, right? And at the time I not might not have had the long-term strategy, right? Or the the planning and thinking strategically for the future, but I was trying to survive in the moment, right? That was that type of planning, and that has shifted over time, and and and and I I could see that progression in myself, right? So, you know, what's interesting is is uh past that job, I went up to uh Syracuse, New York to do a uh another bridge because we were wrote a bridge contractor over the Route 51 bridge over the Seneca River. You know, it's I have really fond memories of that job because I I had some great mentors and I had some people that really took the time, uh Renee and Jesse, to spend time with me, talk to me. And it's something I didn't have on my previous job. And it was really great, right, to uh to be able to have that mentorship at that time. I had a guy named Chris Ballard who I actually still reach out to and keep in contact with, uh, and he was a great guide for me and and and other states been to really help me through things, even though he was remote. You know, he was somebody I could rely on. And uh, I'll tell you, Chinbro, hands down, uh they were they were they were involved in behavioral safety back in early 2000, guys. They were way ahead of the curve of any other contractor I have even met to this day, right? If I think about them then compared to even people now, they were really progressive. So I I learned from the best right at the time, right? It was nice, I didn't realize it at the time, but I I had some great people that they surrounded me with, right? And I I think back to that. I was very fortunate. And that's up to that point, guys. I things happen to me, and good good things happen to me for whatever reason, right? I could never really explain it up until that point, guys. And even through my entire career, and I don't know if you can I don't know if you can equate that to good things happen to good people, right? Or good things come to you if you work hard, but opportunities have always come to me based on my work ethic, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:26

And what I've done. Yes, right. So yes, I I'd say more than good things happen to good people. I my observation is good things happen when you work hard, right? Because you put in the work and laid the foundation in order to be prepared for the next opportunity. Being a good person in itself, uh, I mean, that's a good thing. No, you ain't doing no work. No, it's well said.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

No, you're well, you're well said.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Yeah, I worked with a sheet metal mechanic once, and uh, I was complaining to him about all the little inconveniences that I put myself in at the time. He told me, he's like, you know what, Renee, you make your own luck. I was I was trying to explain to him the bad luck that I have, right? And I I was telling him about my little hoopty with the freaking, it was like a 1994 Honda Civic, and the door wouldn't open anymore. And then like I found I had an oil leak now. Man, I have such bad luck, I have such bad luck. Like he was explaining to me, you did that, you put yourself in that. You decided to take a shortcut, buy a car off of Craigslist, not look at the car facts. Yeah, so you did that to yourself, so you made your own luck. Yeah, he I really needed that kick in the pants.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

Yeah, that was good advice. You know, that job up in Syracuse that I had, it actually uh I did a lot of more stormwater Jesse on that job, so I went back to my mental roofs a little bit, right? I learned my chops, and I was a I was still a doer, guys, at that time, right? I was one of the guys still and and and part of the group, and I was a doer. And uh it's it's interesting because there's still people. There's one gentleman that works for our company now, Jesse, that worked with me back then, but was a carpenter, and he he uh and he's in safety now, which is which is pretty interesting. So I remember every time I talk to him, I think in the back of my mind, thinking he remembers remembers me when I was a 23-year-old knucklehead, right? Right, yes, and he sees what I'm thinking, boy, what does he think, right? Yeah, and uh it's interesting that that that that that happened because this is a small industry and you never know who you're gonna run into or work with again, you know. And um I'll tell you, it all kind of happened, and I and I not to give you guys a love story, but I'm gonna give you a love story. I I ended up quitting that I ended up quitting that job, guys, because I was just worn out and I'm not a quitter, but I just couldn't drive from Connecticut to New York, right? Uh on a weekly basis. It was to me at the time, 45-minute radius from my hometown was a far, right? Now you're talking yeah, yeah. Five hours. Uh five hours. Now you're talking now. Now in Texas, five hours is like, oh, I do that in a day. I drive to San Antonio, come back to Dallas. I'm I'm good, right? Uh but you you know, back then it was a big deal to me. So I ended up quit that job going home. I got set up on a blind date with my then now wife on Valentine's Day. She lived in Dallas originally from Oklahoma, and she lived up in Tulsa. We had that we we hit it off on Valentine's Day. This again, a blind date. She just so happened to come to Connecticut. We had both friends that were you know together at the time. After I met her, uh, we we obviously communicated. I came down to visit her in Dallas, which you know, I'll tell you, coming from Connecticut, flying to Dallas for a time, I thought where I was gonna see cowboy hats and horses on the streets and you know, howdy and y'all, and you name it, right? I thought I was gonna see like an episode of Dallas, and uh none of that happened, right? Everything was concrete, it was like a concrete jungle, anything but what I thought it was gonna be. But I spent more time with her and I ended up moving here uh within uh four four months of meeting her. You know, I I kind of just overstayed my welcome long enough where she just gave up and said, Okay, I don't see that you're yeah, you're not gonna go back to Connecticut. So I guess you're just gonna stay here. And if you're gonna do that, you need to get a job, right? So knowing that I was gonna move here, Turner was actually doing a job in my hometown, and I stopped and gave the guy my resume. And I said, Hey, I'm moving to Texas. Could you give this, you know, put this in? And honestly, I don't even remember the name of the guy that I gave the resume to. I wish I could go back and thank him. Uh, but he sent my resume in and I got a job interview when I was hired in September of 2004 after having a job interview with our now SVP and and uh at the time my immediate boss and Turner hired me, right? And again, I don't think they knew what they were getting at the time, right? I was just a kid that used to work for Chinbro. Yeah, that's how I got to Texas, and I'll tell you, even to this day, I I think back, and uh they put me on a job, it was a stadium job in South Dallas, and again, you know, as much as I learned at Chinbro coming to Texas, I don't think I was really prepared for the commercial uh avenue, right? Because commercial is so much different than Road and Bridgework, the management of so many different disciplines and trades, and you know, going from working with your self-perform group pretty much at that one organization and now coming and manage you know 30 different contractors and God knows how many people on site, right? It's a it's a it was crazy, right? At the time, it was unique. Were you did you ever feel scared? Oh, every day I was scared. I mean, I come to Texas, I don't speak Spanish, even though it took like seven years of Spanish in school, right? I mean, I could basically I could basically uh take a verb and add uh omos on it, right? Or or uh the fo uh vosotros, right? I uh you know, you know, conjugate the verbs, right? That's what I could do. And uh and it was frightening, right? I'm scared every day I came to work. I didn't know who to who I needed to talk to, what to do. Uh I think back we didn't have documented pretest safety plans, like we didn't ask that from contractors. Like it was more of a uh Renee, what are you doing today? Right? That was the conversations we were having, and people would just go to work, right? There was no formal written plan or what you were gonna do or how you were gonna do it. It was just hey, the schedule says X, and I need to go get that done. At the time, I just walked around and I feel like I was the Queen of England, right? Just you know, uh talking to people and faking my Spanish pretty well, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:20

And and smiling and waving.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

Oh, yeah, man. You know, you gotta realize this is before, you know, before we were wearing safety vests, before we were wearing gloves, right? I mean, basically you had a hard hat and safety glasses, and that's what you did, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

But you're not scared anymore, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Oh no, absolutely not, right? I mean, as I think from that guy, I still am the same fundamental person, right? I I've always deeply cared about people, I've always connected deeply with people and and feel emotion, right? Uh, and and project how they feel onto me, but how I talk to people and how we interact with people, that communication, Renee, has been extra in like exponentially higher, right? So well, you got to realize, and what I realized over time, and and this really hit me when I did a job in 07, and and I was only like like 27 at the time, they put me on a job with a very you know, demanding client of safety. And what I realized is people don't know what you're gonna say, Renee. They have no idea, right, what you're gonna say. So don't be fearful, right? They don't know if you forget something, you don't they don't know if you had like a 15 bullet point thing that you wrote down on a sheet of paper. They don't know that you missed bullet point six and number nine, right? They don't care, right? And that's that's all on you, right? That's in your head. And what I realize is I generally know what I want to say, and I know what how I want to come across. And and honestly, I always realize this about myself now is that I want to speak generally from the heart because it comes across so much better, right? So even when I, you know, depends, you know, look talking to different types of groups, I really have the same approach. You know, when I talk to a worker, it's it's respectful. Uh you know, it's somebody out in the field that's respectful of their time, respectful of their craft and who they are, uh, trying to understand where they're coming from, right? You seek the first to understand before that you're understood. And you want to you want to understand people, right? And instead of projecting what you need or what your, you know, what your agenda is, you get to get to know people and you you disarm them in a lot of ways, right? Because they're so used to safety cops, they're so used to people being barking at them, right? I mean, that's that's that's the last thing people want at work. You know, I've always tried to employ that, but even in a bigger group, right? I've spoken in front of 1,500 people, Renee, right? And a lot of folks, and my wife would tell you this, you know, she could never get up in front of a group of 10, right, to deliver a presentation. She probably planned for four weeks to try to deliver that presentation. I go up there without one note on my my sheet, and I'll stand in front of 1,500 people and talk and and not miss a beat.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

And and it's I'm not trying to brag here, but this is what I do. I don't look at anyone, I look at the group, and I almost pretend that they're not looking at me, right? And I just vocalize my words, and I my vision kind of goes a little bit blurry, right? Because I kind of put everything out of focus and I just speak from my heart. And and I try to make again, like Jesse knows this about me, logical sense, right? I always try to put things into logical order for people so people can put things together easier for themselves when I speak. When you try to do that, you you kind of fool yourself into being able to not be afraid, not to be scared. And if you're always speaking from the heart, then how can you go wrong?

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Right?

SPEAKER_03 37:08

How can you go wrong?

SPEAKER_00 37:10

That is that's good. That's yeah, that's there's a lot of of wisdom there, Ian. Like, speak from the heart. One of the reasons that I really wanted to get you on the podcast is because I recognize you said it earlier, you're you're a sensitive man, and you have a level of empathy that very few human beings have. Like you can connect with people, you can sense where they're coming from, you can sense how to deliver your message, right? To to achieve what it is you're working towards. Um, and and you have always displayed immense respect for the people around you. And more than that, you expect the people around you to exhibit the same behavior. You know, we had the the one of the GBI events at a project in San Antonio, and you noticed a flaw in what we were doing. And the flaw was that we weren't engaging directly, showing the appropriate respect for the worker. And you called it out and said, wait a minute, what are y'all doing? We need to they like bring them over here. They're not lab rats. Let's talk to them and help them understand what's going on. Yeah, they're not a bunch of plants, Jesse, right? Yeah, they're not a bunch of shrubs. That's right. And you're you're in the safety run, a huge, you have immense responsibility as the the director of EHNS, right, for the region. And too many times that safety professional has a bad, they have a bad rap, right? And many of them have earned it because they are the safety cop, right? They are the barkers and yellers and you know, box checkers, but you're not, right? In my mind, you're the way you carry yourself is is exactly what what safety professionals and more than safety professionals, professionals in general, how it's exactly how they should carry themselves. So you're the fantastic example uh of what we're looking for in leadership, in leaders.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

Well, I'll give you, I'll give you the why. I have a why behind that. Oh right. This is this is why I I am like I am. I'll sum it up in this story, and it's very personal for me. So I'm I excuse me if I get choked up a little bit because I I have I tell the I do tell this story. Uh I actually do a training we call Lead the Way, Renee. That we're actually training the fundamentals of leadership for crew leaders. Oh, cool. And uh, we're trying to give people the tools to become better leaders for the people that they serve. And I I'm very fortunate to be able to teach that class. I'll tell you, there's a section in in the class that we've developed that uh is about communication and it's about motivation and inspiration of their people, right? So here's what I would tell you. I spoke about my father earlier, right? And you know, a lot of things for me come back to family and the things that I value, right, with my family. My father passed away in 2016, uh, very suddenly, uh, overnight, and it had a great impact on me and my family, right? I've I've everything I've done, I heard you. I really want to make my father proud, right? I told you, yeah, yeah, I wanted to be better, right? And wanted to make my dad proud of where I was going and to show him my hard work was gonna his hard work was gonna pay off, right? Because I was gonna for him, my family, my parents, and and everybody. My father, we we had his weight, and my dad was a postal worker, he had the same route forever, okay. And if you get if you realize anything about a postal worker, and maybe not so much in Texas because a lot of it's drive-by, my dad walked his route every single day, right? So you if you think about it, your postal carrier is the person that's there for you in your time of need. They see you every day. My dad made people laugh, he made people cry, he was there when they needed him, he was there delivering happy news, sad news, right? He was always there uh on that route, right? And and making people's day, right? He just he had a way about him. If you had ever met him, right, he was my hero, right? My dad smiled all the time, would make you laugh, he was goofy, he was just a wonderful guy, right? And when he passed away, we had his wake. And I'm sorry, thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Well, you're good, man.

SPEAKER_03 41:41

I tell you, there probably was 250 people lying around the block, and it was raining out, right? You know a lot of his customers showed up, and the things and the things that they would say about him made me realize the impact of how many of those lives that he touched. What a wonderful person he was. The happiness he goes, the things that he did for people, he was so unselfish.

SPEAKER_02 42:14

He was good to so many people. I'm so sorry. I want to I want to treat people the way my dad did.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

You know, my dad, he created a legacy that's gonna be hard to live up to, right? He's he's he made such a great impact on me and so many people that I just want to be a leader that make people better, right? To improve for themselves, to to have the best lives that they can. And I want to I want to inspire people to want to be better, right? No matter what it is in this life, whether it's at work or or personally, I just want people to be better, right? And be happy, and that's where everything I comes out of me comes from, right? Is genuine care for people because I want to live on my father's legacy.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

That's amazing. Thank you, Ian. I'll say this from my perspective, from me to you, you have had that impact on me. I want you to like take that for real. I don't I'm not gonna have to say it after you're gone. I'm telling you right now, you have had that impact on me. I appreciate that, Jesse. Those are kind words. And I I applaud you for that.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Uh well, I'll tell you, in when I think about my leadership in this company or or leadership overall in the industry, I want To succeed in safety because there's far too many people that die in this industry, right? There's far too many people that get hurt and affect their families and the impact that those things have had on my life, right? You never want to have to tell a family that you're not coming home. And the for the people that you said earlier that are safety cops and that are checking a box, right? Those people don't want belong in this profession. Okay. They don't. The only way we're going to make a difference is if we can reach the hearts and minds of every single worker and every single person that works in this industry to make them better. It's going to take winning hearts and minds over one at a time. And that's what I'm going to do. And that's what it's going to take collectively. We need to all be thinking that way. And that's what my mission is, right? Is to do that. It's not easy, but if I live my life every day, Jesse and Renee, the way that I feel I need to live my life, that I then I'm going to do that. And I think that's what drives me and everything that I do. And I'll tell you, we've grown so much. And I went from a group of you know small, like maybe 15 HS professionals in the region that I cover. We now have close to 60. And I'll tell you, trying to find people that fit the model of what you're all about and what you want to achieve, it's it's not an easy thing, right? And and to inspire those and develop a followership, Renee, right? So they they hopefully can learn from from those things that I perpetuate, right? And and I speak about.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

That's so cool because like I've I just had a conversation the other day about some superintendent recently got promoted to superintendent. He he was a foreman or whatever, and now he's here. And the person I was talking to felt that he got promoted too quickly and that he doesn't know what he's doing, right? And maybe he may or may not should, he may or may not deserve the job, even right? That was what the conversation was like, and I don't know these people, but I think that's so cool because like he was saying that, well, I I asked him, I was like, Well, how do you know he doesn't know what he's doing? He's like, Well, I went to a job site with him, and he didn't know the name of this, and he didn't know how to do this repair or whatever. And it was just so discouraging. I was like, Man, well, I mean, he probably in my head, I'm like, well, he now he knows, right? And then and then he can he put that in his back pocket and now he's ready for the next time. In my opinion, I think we don't need to know everything right now, but I don't hear a lot of stories about that. I always hear stories about the guy that was a hot shot from day one, hit the ground running, and and then he he grew in his career because of he always just knew that's the story I hear. But your story, it's quite yeah, like to hear that you were scared to like even order those safety glasses and now look at you and like you know, you actually care about people and stuff. That's so cool. I I don't hear that a lot. And so I thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

You're giving me way too much credit. I'm still average when it comes to safety, right? I'm gonna make your point for you, right? I'll tell you, I don't need to know everything. That's not what Ian's about. I'm not the I'm not the most savvy technical guy that can you quote you the book, Renee, right? I don't know those things. Uh and I'll never I'm never gonna be that detailed of a guy, right? I'll I'll never get that. But what you try to do is you is you grow a a group, a team that works together, right? And collectively you have that knowledge. I don't need to be the best at everything. What I need to do is I need to motivate inspired people at my level as a leader to improve, right? And and I'm more of the guidance person, right? I'm I'm I inspire people, I motivate them, I I, you know, I'll plan strategically the big picture stuff, but you got to allow people to to execute those things, right? And they'll they'll know they'll they'll bring in their expertise, right? You don't have to know all that stuff, right? And I'll never claim I learn every single day on this job. Every single day I'm learning something. And you know, uh, you got to be humble when it comes to that, right? And and and I I think that superintendent, you you gave an example of I think that individual's gonna do a great great because they're learning every single day, right? And and for people that look uh so short-sighted to that, right? It's not as much to me the technical skill is how you can gather people together, lead them. And unfortunately, what we see in this industry, and we see especially at the front line, is we take the the producer on a crew and we make them the leader. It doesn't make them a good leader, their biggest producer, right? The the what makes them a good leader is how they treat their people, how they can set direction with their people, how they mentor their people, how they develop them, how they communicate with them and show genuine care for them. Those are those are the things that make them a good leader. It's not because they produce the most. And I think that's the mind shift that people need to have. So that person they think might be promoted too early. He probably has all those soft skills, Renee, over a lot of other people, right? And if you can have those, you're gonna go a lot further in this industry than you are the first person that's just gonna pump out the work.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Wow, that's awesome. I think man, I really hope my coworkers hear this.

SPEAKER_00 50:22

But it's a mind shift, right? Like Ian said, it's an absolute mind shift because you know, think of like you, the the role that you're in, Renee, right? You're a producer, you go out there and you do things, and of course, your peers are in the same the that's the same expectation. Go do. And and you get your performance, your raises, all of that revolves around your ability to produce and do things, and we'll say no things. Um, and like Ian said, when you get start elevating in the leadership role, you've got to have a learner's mindset because you're always going to be learning, and you have to listen, which is a very undeveloped skill for a lot of us, especially me. Um, but it's not because it it's just Ian said it best, right? There are the soft skills which are like power skills that a leader must have. It's not about output anymore. It's about connection, it's about motivation, it's about learning, it's about setting direction. And those skills are very different than executing tasks.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Well, I also think people I have satisfaction in knowing that people around me are being successful in what they're doing, right? And their success is my success. I don't have to toot my horn, I don't have to screen from the mountaintops. I find satisfaction in knowing that the people around me are succeeding, right? And and doing a wonderful job. And that gives me happiness right inside. That fulfills me. And I don't need to self-fulfill myself in in other ways, right? And I'll tell you, the that's what drives me to develop and mentor people. That makes me happy. And I'll tell you, that improvement piece really is something that that bit me early a long time ago as a kid, right? I told like I was saying earlier, so my whole my whole life. I remember back to those greenhouses, Jesse. I remember trying to improve how many plants I could carry to the next greenhouse, right? How many, how can I hang it off my finger in a different way to put three pots in one hand and four in the other, you know, time myself, right? I did time studies and all the, you know, the the improvement bug bit me a long time ago. And and thinking back to all those things, and and when I got introduced to lean, for example, early on around 2012, uh being a light bulb went off for me when I learned more about it, and I learned more about the pillars of of lean, you know, it it all comes together for me, right? And that's why, you know, for me, um, I'm a I'm a great advocate, uh, and uh probably you know have a lot of safety professionals tell me otherwise. Safety is a byproduct of being a lean enterprise, right? If you are a lean enterprise, then safety will come, quality will come. And I I actually really do believe that, right? Because you you got to be a learner, you have to learn, and you got to continuously uh look ahead, right? And and when people put it all together and not silo things, they don't silo safety, they don't silo quality, they don't silo some of the lean concepts that we're doing, and they can put it together, it's all it's all intertwined. That's the kind of messaging I'm I'm really trying to, you know. If you think ask me what the future looks like and what what what I think it should look like, I all the things that we talk about with safety, Renee should go away. We we have this vernacular, right? And we seem to silo these things. Like I said, I you know, we do like we call them safety plans in the morning, Renee. Why is it a safety plan? It's not a safety plan, it's a work plan. And you it's and you discuss production, you discuss safety, you discuss quality, you discuss how people are doing that day, right? It's a plan, and it's what you do every single day. That kind of terminology, I think, in the future, if people could put all those things together, the whole I hope my hope would be they don't silo the things, and they can they can put it together in their minds that they all they all play off of one another. That's my goal in the future of safety. I want to work myself out of a job. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

So Ian, you you you are a very passionate man, uh, obsessed, maybe that's an exaggerated word, but obsessed with continuous improvement. I am and and and deeply care about people. That's right. Have you ever been in a situation where people misunderstand that and respond mistakingly to your passion and energy?

SPEAKER_03 55:14

Well, that's a that's a really good question. About three or four, boy, maybe longer. I'm getting old. Four four years ago or so, uh David Solomon and I, a co-worker, we we developed or at least came up with what we were calling an observation circle. And it's actually a little bit of a process that's uh similar to the Gemba-based improvement, Jesse, that we did this past uh week. Yes. Uh, and really deeply going to understand the work, right, by getting to the Gemba. And that was really the basis of the observation circles to observe work and provide feedback to people. I re I I've done these observation circles, right? Getting out to the field, we watch the work for 20 minutes, we'd bring leadership group back in, talk about improvements, and then we would bring the workers in and talk about those improvements. And I probably have done at least 50 of these the last couple of years, right? And it's always interesting, depending on the trade partner, depending on who it is and where I've done them, because I've done them in Texas, Ohio, New York City, right? All over the place, right? And it's interesting to see how people take those improvements because people get pretty defensive, can be pretty defensive on how I do things. This is what we do, Jesse. This is how I do it. When I first did, I did three in New York City. Uh I helped facilitate them. The perception coming into it for the trade partner was this is just another thing they want us to do, right? Here's another thing, right? That we're gonna ask somebody to do. Through the experience of it, there was a little push, there was a little aggravation on their part to go, boy, what they're really making me go watch my work for 20 minutes. I mean, come on, right? I'm out here all day long. And by the end of it, right, after as we facilitate the session and we we talk about improvement, people start seeing the light. But it takes the whole process, the people's eyes start opening up. But that fight in the beginning, Jesse, right? That you know, uh, this is how we do it. That that I've seen that more than once, right? And yes, what I've learned is you can't force your ideas on people, right? It's got they have to come do it for themselves. They're not gonna do anything that you want them to do unless they believe in it, right? I can walk away tomorrow, write you a list, Renee, of 15 things. But unless you value my opinion or you value the things that I say are improvements, then you're not gonna do them. And that's what I found, right? Is that I need to somehow convince you a value proposition that this is good for you. And if I can't do that, then I've failed, right? Or or we haven't communicated in a proper way to you of why of the why that that's good for you. Jesse, the honest truth is I probably go against this, like go up against this every day. Yep, yep, in different ways, right, in my job. So I hope that answered your question.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

It it does, it does. I mean, I think in the type of work that you do, the type of work that I do, we we represent change to people, and it's very easy to take their response or reaction to to the change to take that personal as if they're rejecting us. But they're not rejecting us, no, they're rejecting the change. That's right, right? You know, when it comes to change, I've got a bunch of exes that will tell you that I didn't want to change, right? We don't like to change as human beings. That's right. Um, and when your responsibility and influence grows within an organization, it's important to know that people are responding to change, they're not rejecting you, they're rejecting the change. And that you pointed out so astutely, it may be because of the way we're delivering the message. Oh, absolutely. Let's pump the brakes when you start getting your feelings hurt. Pump the brakes, take a deep breath, and change the message so that you can connect with them because your passion and energy, they may be misinterpreting it uh as a dictation or a judgment, uh, a conviction. And really, the conviction is from within you to help them. You want to take the suckiness out of their work, the risk out of their work, and and learning how to craft that message like in the moment, man, that's a that that's a magical power that I know you have because I've seen it live.

SPEAKER_03 59:47

I try to influence people's minds and hearts, right? That's that's usually my way in being genuine, right? And and try to get people to see the why. At the end of the day, I really truly believe people want to come to work and do a good job, guys. They want to earn for their families, they want to provide for their families, they want to be happy. Nobody's coming to work and saying, boy, I'm just gonna do a crappy job today. Nobody does that, right? I mean, who wants to have a crappy day, Renee? Nobody does, right? They want to be happy. And I believe in the good in people, right? So, you know, if you can improve how hard something is, I think they're gonna want to listen, right? Or if you can improve something that they have an opinion about that they you they can provide you feedback on, that you can act on, then you need to go do that for them. And how small, even no matter how small it is. If you told me, Renee, that it would make a difference to uh put a smile on the sun, right, or whatever it is, I tried my damnedest to go do that, right? Or, you know, if you just want me to paint a line on the ground because you thought it was going to be better, right? For whatever, I do that for you. People want to be listened to, they want to feel like they're doing a good job and people value what they say, right? And if you can just act upon that, I think what ends up happening is if we get so wound up in our daily grind of what we're supposed to be doing that we forget to stop and listen, we forget to talk to people. We need to focus on people, and I'll tell you, that's that's been a message to our organization is you got to stop and get to the Gemba, you got to talk to people at the front line that are doing the work and find out what's making their job so hard and try to take away those things, and that that's really gonna make a huge impact on this industry, absolutely, and we get like you said earlier, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

We hurt maim and kill too many people in the industry, uh, and but we got to get out there to see what the hell's going on and listen to them because they're the ones that know what's what sucks, and it's our job as leaders to take that out, design it out of the work. Question, Ian. You are an influential person. Um, Renee, are the kids that they're having uh choir practice out there? Yeah, my daughter's practicing.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:14

Making a TikTok, uh yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh Jesse, come on, get with the times.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Oh man, I gotta catch up so bad. So, Ian, you're a very influential man. How do you intend to impact the universe before you leave?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:31

What? That's a terrific question. One, I'm really worried about the world that my kids are growing up in. You know, I have a six-year-old, his name is Xander, and my daughter's eight, and she her name is Elon. And, you know, my goal is to do what my dad did for me and provide them a value set that they can view the world with that they can make a positive impact on this world. Because the honest truth is, Jesse, I'm not the future anymore of this, of this world, right? I'm not the future of this this company. It's the people coming in behind us that are truly going to make an impact on on the way this world views itself, right? And its people. That's that's my goal as a father, right? To make a positive impact on their lives. And and and I I want to do that for my kids, and I want to do that for for the world, right? Because there's far too much tragedy and far too much un you know uh things going on in this world, right? That I'm I'm scared of, right? For my kids. And we need a brighter future. Uh, you know, this pandemic, I think, has probably taught us a lot uh about ourselves as people and the things that we've been through this year in 2020. Uh, there's been a lot of challenge uh to a lot of emotions. So that that's really for for the world view, you know, what what I want to do. But when it comes to you know, immediacy and and I have an opportunity in my role to help shape thoughts and influence at the and some of our highest senior leadership, at least in the region that I cover. And you know, I hope I hope that I'm the voice of reason. I I would hope that I'm the person that brings clarity and reason uh to a lot of the things that we do and how we shape our policies or or some of the programs that we implement to to really make a big impact on our job. And my goal is to press the envelope further, right? I mean, we've come so far in safety since when I first started to where we are today, to be able to reflect back and see where we are and to know that you know we we are on our way to go beyond zero, right? And beyond zero means Renee, when somebody comes to work, you probably heard a lot of people say we want to send them home the same way they came to work, Renee. You've ever heard that yeah, I've heard that exact phrase. Well, you know what? That's not what I think. I think that we should send people home better than when they came to work, Renee, right? Awesome. We need to send them home in a better, better mental state. We need to send them home happier than when they came to work, we need to send them home with more money in their pocket, we need to send them home safe to their families, right? And better than when they came. I have an opportunity to do that. So my goal is to continue to influence those things and and to make a difference for the folks that uh are at the front lines, right? Because they're the ones that are really doing the work. I'm I'm just I'm just a servant to them. I'm I'm a person here to to hopefully make a difference for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

I have a question too.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

So on behalf of myself and the listeners, what would you tell someone who's getting Ready to be promoted. And they're feeling the pressure to know everything about that promotion and what that entails right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:11

It's a great question. I've made some mistakes when I got promoted. And I want you to learn from what I what I did. One, I first came in, even though they might be nervous, I thought I knew everything, right? I could, it was that guy at one time. Um, what I failed to do is to stop and evaluate what was going on around me and listen and to really find out what the current state was before I try to do anything uh that I wanted to do, right? Or or make any changes that I wanted to make. So first need to stop and take a pause. And whether it's a week or two weeks or a month or whatever that time is to evaluate your either your crew or the situation of the in uh that you're dealing with, right? You need to give yourself some time to think. Far too often, people don't give themselves the gift of time, right? Because people want to see action. And you got to give yourself the gift of time to to to think about what the current state is, right? Before you go do those things. Once you do that, right, you can you need to think sit down and think about a strategy that's either short-term or long-term, Renee, on on what your uh short-term strategy is with what you're doing, and then what your long-term strategy is, and and try to figure out how to bridge that gap and work yourself to that point, right? And think your strategically is a lot harder than it sounds. Okay. Yeah, that that uh it's easier to say, I can say those words, but to really put out a formal plan, right, is is a lot more difficult, right? So, how do I get from point A to point B? And then logically, again, this goes back to my scientific mind, right? Logically progress in steps. So it's not you just you're not gonna do everything on day one, right? How do we progressively get there? Need to take a time to think. You got to use your resources, and the best resources you have are the people you surround yourself with, right? So, as a person that's going into a crew leader role or getting promoted, you need to again use them and you and understand their capabilities, Renee, right? And what we do far too often fit the worker to the work and not fit the work to the worker, right? So yeah, what what you what you gotta do is understand your people enough and understand their strengths and weaknesses to develop a plan to have them excel in what they're doing. And I think again, those are those are things that you gotta contemplate uh as you do. And and I think the last thing I would say uh on your question is that we think we do a good job at setting direction, Renee. We do a terrible job at setting direction. Okay, anybody can set direction, but it doesn't mean that they're good at it, right? And there's a couple of things that come come into play when you set direction, right? You got to give people the why. Why am I doing what you're you're asking me to do, right? People want to know how they fit into the bigger picture of things, Renee. Um, and they want to know. You got to give them the when. We this is where we've probably failed the most times, right? Was we we don't tell people when they need to get things accomplished, right? And we fail them as a leader by not giving them that that when, uh, because then we're either disappointed because they didn't get it done on time, or they're seen as a failure because they didn't get it done on time, right? That you gotta give them the how. And and I'll tell you, as much as it is easy to say, oh, that person's a journeyman or they're a whatever, right? Sometimes people need to understand the how, how you want it to get done, right? And obviously the what, right? What what needs to get done, and but you gotta everybody communicates differently, Renee. Okay, everybody has a different work style, and people process information differently, okay. There are those people like myself that put things together quickly, and that's a skill that I have, right? I've always had, and I put things into logical order. There are people that are very calculated, that are engineers, that need to like gather as much information as possible so they can fully like, you know, take time to develop and understand. There are people that just take charge and plow ahead, and they don't want you to tell them anything, right? They want to just go, go, go. And and there's people that are very empathetic, right? And you need to come to them with a soft approach and make sure that anything you tell them more is on a kind of a relationship level, right? And and you're you're taking their feelings into account. So if you think about all those different types of people that make up our workforce, right? You gotta, you can't just have one communication strategy, Renee. You gotta have multiple communication strategies, right? To be able to communicate to your people. So there's a lot that goes into being a leader. It's not as easy as getting promoted, like I said earlier, right? There's a lot of things that you gotta put into put into play to be successful. Hopefully that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:27

Oh, yeah, yeah. Better than I thought.

unknown 1:11:30

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

Okay, no problem. And it like Ian said, you gotta give yourself time to learn how to do all of that. Yeah, right. There's no magic pill or magic button that you figured that out, right? You figured that over time. Yeah, trial and error, lots of error. Take notes, lots of error.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:52

That's a good Jesse. I can't tell you if you and I'll tell you, Jesse will appreciate this. I have failed at so many things, guys. I'm not gonna tell you right now. I have, you know, I have tried things, I have, and then what I've learned about myself is I generate a lot of ideas, guys. I have an idea guy, right? And I will try them and they'll fail miserably because what I continually do, and I know this about myself right now, is I have great ideas, but they can't sustain themselves without getting other people to believe in it and to continue on what I what the idea is. So that's why I've failed in the past, right? Is the sustainability of some of the things that I'd like to do. So what I do now is I really try to focus on what we can achieve that's gonna be sustainable and easy to do. If it's gonna be hard to do, but it's a great idea, it doesn't matter, right? Because you're not gonna be able to keep it up. What I try to focus on are the things that I can continue doing and and and to keep that going.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

The wisdom of Ian Smith.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:02

I try.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:04

Well, um, man, this has been awesome conversation. I get the sense, Ian, that we're probably gonna do this again. But before we close, Renee, do you have any last thoughts or questions? I know that was it.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:17

I I have something if you don't mind. I think what what I've learned, especially this year, uh, with with COVID-19, and I and I know that you might not have spoken this on your podcast, but uh I I want to tell everybody, you know, this is a dangerous virus, right? And there's there's yes, it's a lot of people have died from COVID, a lot of people suffering, right? A lot of family suffering. And all I would do is implore everybody that listens to make good decisions for themselves and their families and their loved ones, for their co-workers, right? Regardless of your politics, your your beliefs, or whatever it is, right? Please, please be good to others, respect others, and and protect one another. And really, if you take that mindset, you'll do all you can to protect each other from from getting COVID. And I, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel with vaccines coming, and that's exciting. Uh, and and to hear uh that uh, you know, those are those things are coming. So we hope 2021 brings on a new reality for us. But guys, I don't see this, you know, some of the practices that we're doing now, I don't think are gonna go away for a while. If you look at it, you know, we're we're right in the middle of things now, right? And it probably won't be until the end, you know, closer to the end of 21 or third quarter for for us to see some realization of COVID leaving our lives. And obviously, we always want that to be happen sooner. Just take care of one another, is really the message.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:48

Well, I'll say in closing, Ian, at the very beginning, you said that you were always average. And I think our listeners, after hearing your story and the the wisdom and insight that you've shared, are gonna be confused. Because my man, you are nowhere near average. You are an amazing human being, man. And it's uh it's a privilege to be your colleague, to be your friend, to have you as a mentor to learn from. You are not average, Ian. You're you're phenomenal. And and also thank you for teaching my baby brother. Because I think you opened his eyes.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:30

It's been it's been a great pleasure, and I I really I really appreciate you both for it for having me on. And I want to introduce you to somebody before we close. Come here. Yeah, yeah. This is my son Xander. Xander's six years old. He's actually probably gonna out be taller than me, probably in the next three years. He's already like four foot uh six or so. I mean, he's a six years old? Yeah, he's a tall kid. I don't know where he got it from. Don't ask me.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:59

We just wrapped up that episode with Ian Smith. And Renee, is there anybody you want to give a shout-out to?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:07

Yeah, let's give a big shout out to the Titans of Trades, who says, everyday heroes in the trade industries make this world run. This podcast highlights the hearts of these everyday heroes changing the world for the better. These essential everyday people that are often forgotten or looked over to provide the basic good and services of everyday life. They have stories to tell and have diverse and unique backgrounds that builds and improves society's infrastructure. Highly enjoy the podcast, and you will too. Thank you, Titans of Trades. That's that just nails it right on the head. What we're trying to do here. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:53

Shout out. Thank you, Titans of Trades. Well, that's the end of this episode. Thank you for being gracious and sharing your time with us. We ask that you show us some love on social media. Give us some honest, actionable feedback. Uh, help us understand if we're headed in the right direction and and providing an entertaining and insightful experience for you. You can also give us that feedback uh directly via email at jesse at learnins and missteps.com. So thanks again. Be cool, and we'll talk at you next time.