Embracing Authenticity and Compassionate Leadership: A Heart-to-Heart with Matt Ohley

Welcome back for part two of my conversation with Mr Matt Oly. We are picking it right back up where I asked him the question of what he learned or discovered about himself during his period of solitude, which I know. It was a little dirty of me to leave you hanging that way, but I couldn't help it. I just knew that it would get people like I want to hear the rest of it, and you really do. And if you haven't heard part one, that's okay, because this conversation is full of nuggets, just like part one. So go ahead and listen to this episode and when you're done, leave a star or one of those review things that we all love so much and then go back and listen to part one. You're going to get some good stuff out of this because Matt like he don't play and I know that he is a courageous man on the path to self discovery. So I kind of leveraged that and asked him some pretty deep, penetrating questions and he was graceful enough to really open up and demonstrate the type of behavior that frees us from the practices that kept us isolated from the rest of the world. But before you get the rest of the conversation, I want to give the shout out to the LNM family member that took the time to let me know what's going on in their world. Lnm family member says you inspire me, man. I'm ordering your latest book. I am trying to remove alcohol from my life. Thank you for sharing your story and I'm going to tell you all out there. The whole purpose of writing become in the promise you are intended to be is exactly that Is to share my story. To help people understand that they are not alone. To get a message from someone admitting to me, to another human being, that they are taking steps towards becoming the promise they are intended to be, is like the absolute ultimate. So, new York Times, you don't know what you're missing, because this book is changing lives. And how do I know? Because they told me and here we go to Mr Matt, oh we. So what were some of the things that you learned when you were in that period of solitude? What were some of the big takeaways you discovered about yourself?

And you don't play that I had low self worth, that I held a lot of shame and that one of the ways that, really a lot of the ways I operated came from a place of shame. So I shamed others, I projected that, talked down to other people and belittled other people because I held so much shame myself. And man, that's such a and it sucks to say that out loud, but it's that's. What I came to find is that man, I harbored so much shame and I say that in the past tense I've done rooted it all out, I rooted it all out. There's no something in there.

There's no the quarters yeah.

Yeah, and there's still a good amount of low self worth in there. And through not only that kind of solitude I'm like the meditation but through talk, therapy and stuff, I came to realize how I was emotionally neglected as a child. Because, come on, man, like yep, our generation man, I say our, I'm pretty, we're somewhere around the same and we weren't talking about feelings and shit at home, like I was just left to my own devices and at least along that kind of stuff. I don't know, I really. Yeah, I learned a lot about myself, and some of it pretty uncomfortable. Yeah, man, Pretty good at this man.

First, I want to just tell you how much I appreciate you, your willingness to go there, right, because you're not the only one that's felt that If you're listening to my book, you know you're not alone, and that's that's part of the reason for the book. But the reason I want to go there, like you're saying, and that I'm so appreciative of you, is because there's people we used to be there, man there's people out there that think that they're alone. They think that their experience on this world it sucks and it's because they're defective, and the fact is they're not. It's not a you thing. We are experiencing this together. The problem for me, anyways, was I didn't know how to do it with other people. I was trying to do it myself. I mean, you talked about the persona, and then you got to come to terms with who am I really? Same thing, and one of the things I learned was I was so infatuated with the stories and the reputation and like all of that, that it ended up being this like cyclone man where if I'd show up somewhere, man, you're the dude that did that. Yeah, you're the dude, you're the dude, yeah. And then it's oh, I got to go be that dude, and then I would be that dude and then I'd have resentment for people because they wanted me to dance, monkey dance, but if they didn't give me the attention I didn't want to be around. So it was like this jacked up thing that I kept doing to fill some weird need. That was a black hole of need and no matter what I consumed and how much attention I got and how crazy the stories got and how legendary the bullshit I pulled was, I was still an empty hole inside. And so for me, the meditate coming to terms with myself and all like the work, the inner work, the real work, started, and then somewhere along the way is oh wait, okay, this I'm learning and this sucks, it's uncomfortable and they're shame all the stuff. But it didn't start like I didn't start backfilling the void until I started contributing. So For you, when did you feel like the void was starting to get packed in with some lasting, meaningful stuff?

So I think a couple things, and it is just goofy as it sounds, man Starting to get creative and sharing on LinkedIn like I'm doing. Yeah, that has helped in some way, because I feel like I'm giving back a little bit, but I think even more than that, though, is just treating my loved ones that I didn't always treat so well, like with my boys, and I've talked, I've had conversations with my oldest son, who's 24. Yeah, and I've sat down with him and been like hey, dude, like I was raising you the way I thought you ought to raise boys, the way I was raised Yep, don't be a sissy, suck it up, be a man, which don't get me wrong, man, I'm not anti-masculinity. There's a place for oh yeah, oh yeah For manning up and getting shit done All right, there's a place for that. But I was hard on my boys especially, and so having conversations with them and now with my younger boys, showing more emotion and being more loving and more accepting of their emotions, rather than maybe some of the stuff I saw growing up or the way that I thought needed to be, being more accepting of my daughters and whatever choices they make and just being a better person, man. Yeah, to the people around me, and especially my loved ones, those close to me, that that started to fill the board 10, 4. Yeah, man.

I'm getting chills here thinking of that conversation you had with your son. I'm getting chills because you know, I've imagined those conversations with the old man that there's a lot of people, a lot of broken hearts that I've left in my life, damaged hearts that I've left in my life that I wish I could go have that conversation with. So I applaud you, man, for doing it, because that that definitely requires some courage and strength To say, hey, I did, I was doing the best I could and I'm here now. That's it, man.

I man, my, my therapist now has got a phrase that I absolutely love, where she says it's an explanation, not an excuse. 10, 4. Yep, there's an explanation for why I acted the way I acted. It's not an excuse. I'm still culpable for those actions. Yeah, it was still wrong. There's an explanation, yeah, for why I did the things I did. It doesn't exonerate me of any guilt, but it helps to understand it, especially for me as I'm trying not to be that dude anymore, totally.

Now, did you have any? I remember when I said, okay, yeah, I gotta do it different, I gotta do life differently, I gotta do life differently. I had this little fear inside me that I would not be able to perform and have the same measure of success or the same degree of impact in the professional space. And what I learned? That was false. But did you have the same type of feeling.

I'm glad to hear you say it's false, I think. I think, bro, you're hitting me where I'm currently at. Oh shit, yeah, good, but that's real though there's. I'm trying to navigate this thing, man, because there's a portion of the construction industry that is no nonsense. Get after it, suck it up. So where is that balance between caring for people and caring for yourself, and taking seriously mental and emotional well-being, both in yourself and others, and still getting shit done, yeah?

man, you know, I do, know I do. Maybe I could describe it a little bit. So early in my career, before I saw the light, right before I actually made real change within myself, I would hell. I don't even know how many projects I've been on Plum Informant Superintendent for the Plumman Piping Sheet Metal Cruise. I did not know anybody on the job site but my crews, man, they knew every. They knew the painter, they knew the taco truck driver, they knew everybody and like they would talk and be friends and shit. And I'm like what are y'all, what are you? I'm like man, what, what do y'all do? How do y'all do that? You had one, my buddy, noah, awesome guy, he was an apprentice when I started working with him. He says, jess, it's because you're an ass. I'm like, oh, he's like yeah, bro, like you come doing your job, you come to the job site. You don't talk to people unless you're writing them up, chewing their ass or giving them direction and sending them to another project. You don't even stop to say hello to people. Yeah, nobody wants to talk to you because everybody knows that you don't care. I was like okay, like he was right, like he was totally right, and I also the way I function was I'm going to get you before you get me period, and I'm going to win period. And what winning back then meant I beat you Not, I win or we win together period. And so when I made the change Respect people and not be, just not be on the attack all the time all of a sudden people started inviting me to a man my kids are having a thing like and for me I'm like finally I'm getting invited to play. It wasn't the company party that I got to meet people who's outside of the company still. All of a sudden they were including me. And at the job I started getting to know other people, the GC's like they spend more time talking to me because just I started having friends all of a sudden. And it's not like I didn't know how to. I'm a social guy. When I was in high school, like I never had a problem having friends, except for when I got into my twenty, twenty's and all of my thirties because of the way I behaved. And now I'm with you in that there's absolutely a necessity and a place for masculinity. There's absolutely a place for aggressive, assertive action and behavior and I think I know rather I don't have to be a hard ass and I don't have to drop the hammer all the time. I can take a coaching approach and an empathetic approach to leading and guiding people, and because I know how to drop the freaking hammer, I can do it better, because there is a point where, if you're not gonna play, you're off the damn team. Now there's other philosophies of you're on the team for perpetual eternity. I don't play that game like. This is a game we're gonna play. These are the rules, these are the expectations. If you ain't gonna show up and show out, we have a couple conversations, but we ain't gonna have the same conversations. And if we have to have the same conversations, there are other teams for you out there and this one ain't it. Move on, tear your ass because we got stuff to do. I don't like to go there now. That used to be Mode of operation default. That's where I'm at now. It down the road a little bit is the last resort, but I'm prepared to go there. And so to your statement earlier, I would say that the fact that you know how to do that and you have the the wherewithal to do it because you know it, still don't feel good, whether you're right or wrong. It don't feel good to be that way, but the fact that you know how to go there and that you can makes all this other empathetic, human centered approach more meaningful and more actionable.

See, for me I've always been the friendly guy out there, like when you talk about your guys being friends with everybody on the site and stuff. I was always one of those guys Like the way I operated. A lot of times I can think of times where I didn't coach people. I'd shame them, yes, if they weren't getting it done. I remember a time we were working on this bridge and there were some. There was some webbing. We had to form up and pour in this bridge or whatever else, and I had a couple guys on it. They should have been forming up and pouring three or four a day and like they got one or two like the first day and and so I jumped in the next day and I was like a non working foreman on this job. But so the next day I threw my pouch on, jumped in there and just showed them and set up three of them myself. Yeah, I was like, come on, man, I'll keep the language right. But basically it was like man, come on, like you see this, do this. Like that's when I would become a hard ass. Yeah, they'll see a guy shoveling and he's all kind of half-assed and it'd be like man, if that shovel was a spoon, you'd starve to death. Come on, get after it. Yeah, you know what I mean, but I always tended to get along with people. I think what I'm navigating now is how to show empathy, be a compassionate leader and but still get there's a balance there, right? Yeah, there's a place for it, but I think you nailed it when you said that you know that when you got to drop the hammer, it means something now, like if I'm yelling and dropping the hammer every day, it just becomes routine for the guy, yeah, but if you lead primarily with some compassion, some kindness and just mutual respect. And look, when I say compassion and kindness, I'm not talking about coddling people. We're in the construction industry, yeah, you know what I mean. Like, the way we talk out here, that we consider like friendly outside of this industry is not friendly, Right, oh yeah. So when I say being friendly and compassionate, it doesn't mean I'm not calling them out their name and everything else. It's a whole different world. But, yeah, navigating that man. And then those times when you do got to drop the hammer, you sit down, you got to mutual respect for one another. They know you really care and at that point you can say look, man, it is what it is. Here's where it's at. Yeah, You're not measuring up.

Yeah, for me, the compassion. It's funny because I talk to people like I just can't imagine you being that way. I'm like, oh, don't worry, you don't need to imagine their stories Like people will tell you, just ask. They'll don't. But in terms of being able to reconcile the value and need for compassion, caring, respecting human beings because they're human beings and also fulfill our responsibilities as managers and leaders or the authoritative figure, the disciplinarian, the way I reconcile both of those things is it's a matter of serving others, and so for me to best serve you, I've got to be the best version of myself. If I want you to be accountable, I have to be accountable to me and my commitments, and so, ideally, most of the time you and I are going to spend together is me helping you build your skills, build your capabilities, build your EQ, like all the things that are going to help you grow into the promise you're intended to be. And when you're slacking, and when you're showing poor form and you ain't performing, I'm going to let you know directly that you're missing the mark and the consequences associated if you continue to miss the mark, because I want to get you back on the path of where we're headed, where we both agreed that you're headed. And so in my head I put it together in terms of service If I'm not going to be serving you worth a damn, if I'm tolerating less than what you can bring, I'm not going to be serving you with the damn if I'm not challenging you to the point where you want to kick me in the face. And when I say challenge, I don't mean pushing your buttons, I mean giving you more responsibility to learn and practice. At that gets you outside of that comfort zone. And when you're coming in late every freaking friday morning and I know you're playing softball thursday night and drinking pictures after the game I'm gonna let you know, not because I'm worried about you being five minutes late, because I mean I am, but because you're not representing yourself or us in the best manner. And that's how I'm accountable and that, I feel, is what breeds accountability. Now, on the same note, what I picked up from listening to your conversations, reading your awesome post like super awesome post, don't think you got like a book there and now you have this men's book club. What I see is, data point after data point, that you are living a life walking a path of servitude, of serving others, of sharing your gifts and talents in service to others, and I just miss reading it.

No, man, and I don't give me all the climp tear. My brother, I appreciate that. I I'm into meditation mind. From this I got a like a little bit of a mission statement I made for myself and it's a little hippie, dippy man, so come on, but as an eternal being of love and light, I will embody that love and light towards myself and others, and I repeat that almost every morning. Yeah, I want to help people where I can, but see, I have not arrived and I'll never say I've arrived. That's a point that I think I want to end. When you ask me to start with, what do they need to know? Look, I still screw up, man. I don't want to put forth this picture like I done figured it all out. That's not it. But my therapist says you only got to be one step ahead of somebody else to help them out truth you know what I mean oh yeah so the little things I've learned along the way. Like I am, I'm passionate about helping other people because, man, I wish, and look in the big scheme of things, I was supposed to learn this when I learned it. So that's all good. But, man, I wish 20 years ago I this lightning bolt would have went off for me. I'd have read that, maybe first chapter, but it probably wasn't time for me. I don't know what you mean I believe it probably wouldn't have stuck then. But If I can do that for somebody else, like if I can talk about both the mistakes I've made and the tools I've found To be a more fulfilled and better person, and that resonates with somebody else and puts them on a better path, what else is there, man? Yeah, what else is there? Because, at the end of the day, we're human beings out here and whether your construction worker, whether you're working at Wendy's, where ever you're at, you're a human being, man. We are struggling a lot of times. Every human out here is got stuff they're struggling with. And if I can share a little bit about what has helped me and it helps somebody else, I can't ask for anymore man, that's it.

That's it, man. On the point of I wish it would have happened back when. I've been there many times. In the way, I've read something here just the other day and I'm gonna steal. That Is something to the effect of it's not about how many years of life we have, it's about how much life we pack into the years we have. It's a when I think about life experiences. It's contribution, it's support, it's connection, it's growing, it's crying, it's Learning, it's failing. How much of that can I pack into a year? And how many years did I have that were void of that? That was a life that was just me consuming, and I feel like you're in this zone where it's go do. Let's go pack some life into these days we got, and not just for me, for other people to so on. That I think you answered it, but just in case anybody missed it, what is the promise you are intended to be, mr matthew? I don't know how to answer that not profoundly anyway.

I just I genuinely, I generally feel like my purpose is to help other people like me Find their way out like that and I know we got a I don't mean to go on but that that little book you mentioned this we call the book club discussion, whatever we want to call it. It was really good. We had our first one last saturday and, like, that book talks about finding your purpose, like what is your purpose, and I feel like that's my purpose. Truly, my purpose is to help other people like me Find a better way man, yeah, man, yeah, I know, hell, yeah, I know. Yeah, you know that same, you're on that same stuff, man that same stuff, bro man.

anybody want to give a shout out to?

man, I hate this because I don't want to. I don't want to exclude anybody, yeah, but there's a few people I'm just on linkedin man, that's it. That's the only Social media that I'm really doing anything on. And forgive me now if I exclude you, but there's been a few people who have really affected me, especially here recently. I'm gonna butcher. His last name is Craig, from Canada okay I don't, bro, we had to put it in the notes or something, because he's got like a french last name that I can't begin to try to say, but he's a safety guy at a canada Craig man, I love that dude. Adam hoots, yeah, man hoots is a monster. Man hoots is a beast and I love like we've started talking. I think I could save us Public like we talk outside of, like we talk on the phone and text each other stuff, and that dude's become a fast friend of mine. And Cody forty eight, yeah, dude, such good, such a good person. Man, yeah, such a. There's been people who, I guess who I'm mentioning are the people who have really reached out and encouraged me. Man, yeah, and like beyond just the, a great post, like your stuff, keep, oh, which I'm not saying anything bad about that man, thank you for all that stuff. But there have been a select few that have really reached out and just been like Dude, you're on something here, mm-hmm, you're on to something and, and please don't stop, yeah, and you, my brother, and I'm not just saying that because I'm here, but you were one of the first people, you were one of the first people start, you and Lance, which everybody. I'm gonna say it again. You've heard me say before Lance Furiyama is the Jehovah's Witness of the construction community On LinkedIn. Yes, dude, tell me I'm wrong. No, I can't, I can't. He is knocking on everybody's door. Say can I tell you about the construction community on LinkedIn? Oh, that's what he does. Oh, he is the man.

Oh, yeah, and one of these days.

Somebody's gonna get offended by me saying that I don't meet any offense by, but I'm telling you that dude he is, that's what he does. Yeah, man.

He is relentless and he does it with such tact like just he's good, he's good people man, that's it. He's good people like straight.

Yeah, y'all two was hanging out, wasn't you?

Yeah, yeah, I was up in California so when I say, man, I got to meet you in person so we made it work. It was dude, amazing human being like we hung out and dammit, I want to stay here for the weekend, but I had read that made some other commitments, but we'll be hanging out again for damn sure. Man, do you have a good time?

This is awesome. I appreciate Like I kept giving you a little bit of hell because you weren't playing man, you were making me put on the scuba gear. But I appreciate that man, I appreciate that. I think you do an excellent job of that man. You do a great job of just letting somebody's be real and Then making them dig just a little deeper. Man who's been on this podcast yeah, all the way back.

Yeah, it's been man way, way back probably two years. It's been at least two years since I interviewed him.

He's getting a little more vulnerable. I don't know if you've seen this lately, but he's embracing this vulnerability. You know what? Yeah, you gotta make that, you gotta dig. Make him dig down bro.

Yeah, I had the feeling that he would say hell, no, because I know you kind of stuff you like to ask, but he probably will. Yeah, I appreciate what you do, man, thank you, brother, anyway, likewise my man, likewise, oh baby. So I hope you noticed that we're shouting out a bunch of like super awesome people that are in the construction community on, that are in the LinkedIn construction community. It seems to be like a nice little. There's like a swell of energy on LinkedIn, with construction professionals and other wacko content creators like myself out there doing big and important things because we want to leave this industry better than we found it. And if you want to leave this industry better than we found it, I want to invite you to the upcoming micro wording experience on virtual sweat equity improvement. It's an hour long. You're going to get introduced to the three awakenings and you'll walk away with like a totally different lens that's going to enable you to see all kinds of opportunities to improve work out there in the field. There's going to be a link down there. You go and sign up. Love to see you there, but only if you like really want to learn, and one of the things I know that help learning happen is that you're a part of the experience. So it ain't just going to be me flapping my gums like I normally do. There's going to be some work for y'all to do during the presentation and I promise it is going to shift your brain just enough to say, oh my God, there's so many amazing things to be done out there. So hit it up, bring a friend you know it's always more fun when we do it with other people and, as always, be kind to yourself, be cool and we'll talk at you next time. Peace.