Oct. 2, 2025

The Human Side of Construction Law with Megan Shapiro

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Season 3

In this conversation, Megan Shapiro, an established construction attorney, shares her 15 years of litigation experience and discusses proactive risk management strategies in construction. Megan offers insightful advice on how construction companies can avoid and better prepare for litigation by learning from past experiences. The episode delves into Megan's personal journey, including her passion for law, relationships, and proactive risk management. It also touches on her various professional endeavors, the support of her family, particularly her parents, and her upcoming construction-focused events.

00:00 Introduction: The Frustrations with Insurance Carriers

00:59 Meet Megan Shapiro: Risk Management Expert

03:31 Balancing Law and Woo: Megan's Unique Perspective

09:14 Megan's Journey: From Childhood Interests to Law

14:19 Parental Support and Early Academic Life

22:35 Advice for Aspiring Lawyers and Their Parents

27:35 Transitioning to Construction Law

33:18 Building a Successful Construction Litigation Practice

38:26 The Importance of People in Processes

38:39 From Litigation to Risk Management

39:10 Misconceptions About Risk Management in Construction

39:43 The Role of Insurance in Risk Management

41:54 Building Trust with Clients

43:39 The Story of Jake the Mason

44:26 The Importance of Legal Protection for Sole Proprietors

49:56 Risk Tolerance and Proactive Strategies

51:22 Megan's Multifaceted Career

56:02 A Construction Love Story

01:03:25 Organizing a Construction Retreat

01:08:10 The Promise You Are Intended to Be

01:12:44 Conclusion and Final Thoughts



Design the Life You have Always Wanted: https://www.depthbuilder.com/do-the-damn-thing

Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books

00:00 - Why Insurance Isn’t Risk

00:59 - Meet Megan: Lawyer and Risk Strategist

03:46 - Woo Meets Law: Strategy as Art

10:56 - Parents, Drive, and Early Debate

16:26 - Costs of Law School and Reality Check

27:35 - Path to Construction Litigation

34:45 - Building a Construction Practice

42:15 - Risk Management Beyond Insurance

47:33 - Clients vs Prospects: Blind Spots

52:38 - Sole Proprietor Risks and LLC Basics

59:58 - Risk Tolerance and Tailored Strategy

01:06:22 - Five Ways Megan Serves the Industry

01:13:48 - A Construction Love Story

WEBVTT

00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:06.080
Listen, I love suing insurance carriers because of how much they screw over their own clients.

00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:06.879
It's ridiculous.

00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:10.320
So I get real mad when people are like, oh, risk is insurance.

00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:11.279
You must be an insurance.

00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:13.599
I'm like, I am absolutely not.

00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:17.440
So, because my whole approach, you nailed it on the head.

00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:25.280
I've been litigating for almost 15 years now, and I'm sitting here going, like, especially with my long-term clients, I've been with you long enough now.

00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:35.840
If we start learning some of these lessons and applying them on the front end, we can avoid litigation altogether, or, because you can't always avoid litigation in construction, we all know that.

00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:39.200
When we end up in litigation, we'll be in a better position.

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We'll have all the documentation we need.

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So 100%.

00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:54.719
My entire system, my framework, aim for higher profits, it all comes from it is informed by the lessons I have learned from litigating this shit on the back end for 15 years.

00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:02.960
What is going on, LM family members?

00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:14.560
I have a super, super awesome guest today, Miss Megan Shapiro Esquire, which I like to say that because it sounds extra, extra fancy.

00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:26.799
If you're like out there in the world and could benefit from a better understanding about managing your risk, specifically in the construction space, Megan is your human being.

00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:30.560
She is the risk expert, so much, and she's so generous.

00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:34.879
Like she lets me use risk in my post without what do they call those things?

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Without, I don't get any call to court for stealing her word there.

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I don't know if that's really her word, but Megan's awesome.

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You're gonna get to know her.

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She got a whole lot going on.

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She got an online course, she's a practicing attorney in California.

00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:52.239
I've heard some of your live streams, Megan, talking about trades.

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And I was like, oh damn, like you really have a deep, deep understanding or maybe interaction with trade professionals and their side, their experience with litigation as it relates to law.

00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:13.759
And so we're gonna get to learn about her path to success because she has the silver bullet, the one answer to have enormous success in your life.

00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:15.199
And we're about to hear that.

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Let's talk to Miss Megan.

00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:20.080
Miss Megan, how in the world are you today?

00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:21.439
I am wonderful.

00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:23.840
It's Friday, right before a three-day weekend.

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It doesn't get much better than that.

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Girl, you know.

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So I'm holiday blind.

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I forget about holiday, I don't account for holidays at all.

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And over and over, I need to get better.

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I need to find a system.

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But over and over again, I get in trouble with like clients because I'll schedule a call or a session on a holiday and I did it again.

00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:50.000
It's like, okay, well, why don't we meet Monday?

00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:52.639
Like, and like, Jesse, it's it's a holiday.

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And I swear, I'm like, it's May.

00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:56.800
There's no holidays in May.

00:02:57.439 --> 00:02:59.439
There's like Memorial Day, dum dum.

00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:01.759
Like, oh yeah, okay, my bad.

00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:05.039
Yeah, I kept doing the same thing for for whatever reason.

00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:09.919
This Memorial Day was like, I had a complete blind spot, and I also kept trying to schedule things.

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And so you you can't see it on my big wall size calendar behind me.

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You can't see May.

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But I finally had to put like a big X over the day because I kept trying to schedule stuff.

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And people were like, no, no.

00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:23.759
No, Megan, we don't want to do that.

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We don't want you, might want to work.

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We don't.

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That's so awesome.

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All right.

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So you are an attorney.

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That's no small thing.

00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.400
And I don't want to get hyper-anchored on that yet.

00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:47.759
What I really think the LM family wants to know is like, what are the juicy, awesome, magical things that they need to know about you?

00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:56.240
Ooh, um, well, I would say, first of all, I am genuinely super passionate about risk management.

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It is it is genuine.

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It's not like a marketing ploy or some business strategy.

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I I had a I had a call earlier today with somebody who was like, everybody's in this space.

00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:08.319
You have a lot of competitors.

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And I was like, do I though?

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Do I really have a lot of competitors?

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Like, do are they really actually passionate about proactive risk management for construction companies?

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I'm not sure I buy that.

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So that's one thing.

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It is truly, genuinely a passion project for me.

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So that's that's a big thing.

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I like to say that I fell into construction law, and then I fell in love with construction law.

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And then I literally fell in love because I met my husband, who is a currently he is a mechanical superintendent, but he used to work for one of my clients, which is how we met.

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So we have a construction love story, which is kind of fun.

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And let's see, one other fun fact unrelated.

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I am super into, I don't share this with many people, but Jesse does already know this.

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I'm super into very woo things.

00:04:57.279 --> 00:04:58.959
I'm like big into astrology.

00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:00.959
I'm big, I'm wearing a lot of crystals today.

00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:02.879
I'm very into the big into crystals.

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I love human design.

00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:07.680
I'm super into sort of like the woo side of things.

00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:13.120
And I don't talk about it much because it doesn't really mesh with construction, but you asked me for fun facts.

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I am who I am.

00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.480
I love thank you for that because you know I'm gonna get nosy about it.

00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:24.160
So here's I'll tell you in my head, like I know you you have an open mind, but now you're talking crystals.

00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:26.000
I'm like, oh, that's really interesting.

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Yeah.

00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:39.759
In my head, there's a clash between the thinking style, I'll say style, to practice law and crystals.

00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:42.879
Now, we're not just talking crystals here, right?

00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:44.879
We're talking a whole bunch of other stuff.

00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:50.240
How do you does that how does how do you make that, how do you reconcile that?

00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:53.279
Yeah, so I think in two ways.

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One, I think I somewhat disagree with your premise that law is very opposite of the sort of metaphysical space.

00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:03.680
Okay.

00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:07.040
Law is very much an art.

00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:08.480
It really is.

00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.439
I mean, like they call it practicing law for a reason, right?

00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:13.600
We are practicing every day.

00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:20.480
There are certain fundamental black letter laws, rules, all of the things that we have to play by.

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But to me, the thing I love the most about being a construction attorney is in the strategy.

00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:31.680
It really is in like working with my clients to strategize.

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And strategy is all art, right?

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Like there's no playbook for strategy.

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And so I don't see a disconnect there.

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But also, my second reason is why not hedge my bets?

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I mean, I don't know, right?

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I mean, I don't know what's I haven't, you know, I don't know what's after this life.

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I don't know what's beyond.

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Like, I don't know.

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So it would be very arrogant of me to pretend that I've got those answers and to just be like, I'm gonna take this one path.

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I have to just go with what feels aligned for me.

00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:06.720
And I have been like, I've been a woo girl since I was a little kid.

00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:08.079
Like really, yeah.

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When I like when my parents would take me to like Barnes and Noble when I was like a kid, I would immediately like make a beeline for like the tarot card section, the witch.

00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:21.360
Like, I was like, I've been like this since I was a little kid, way before I was a lawyer, even though I always knew I wanted to be a lawyer.

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So they always were like, I've always had both of those things in me since I was little.

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And so to me, it doesn't feel anachronistic, I guess is really what it comes down to.

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Because like I've always wanted to be a lawyer, I've always been interested in the woo side of things, and so there's no contradiction for me.

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I feel it, I feel it a hundred percent.

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Because similarly, I'm I mean, my work is process improvement, technically, right?

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That's the job, that's what I get paid to do.

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But everything I talk about is about people and relationships and vulnerability.

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And people are like, well, that that doesn't, I was like, but absolutely it does.

00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:01.519
And similar, like kind of very, very similar.

00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:02.800
I love what that you said.

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Like, I want to hedge my bets because I was talking to somebody the other day, and like it was when I said it, I could see like, oh, that didn't land well with them.

00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:14.000
Well, we're talking about social media and what do I like?

00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:23.519
Primarily I post on LinkedIn, and I also post on TikTok and Facebook and Instagram, and they're like, TikTok, like why TikTok?

00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:30.879
And I'm like, Well, it's it's kind of like praying, like uh it's not gonna hurt anything, and then why not?

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And in the moment, I it to me it made up it was a perfectly logical association, yeah, except that it undermines people's faith in religion.

00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:43.679
Oh, oh, I guess it does technically.

00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:45.279
I didn't take it that way either.

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I think we're we're more on the same wavelength on that.

00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:49.519
I didn't take it that way, yeah.

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Nor did I mean it that way when I made that comparison, right?

00:08:53.519 --> 00:09:10.879
Right, no, totally, but again, you know, people have certain attachments, and I try to when I rewind, play the replay, rather, I don't necessarily realize what I've said until I see the reaction on somebody's face, and then I'm like, oh, I said something dumb.

00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:11.600
Yeah.

00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:15.039
Let me let me let me edit that now.

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So, okay, you mentioned since you were a young lady, woo-woo and law, you knew.

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Where did that, where do you think that came from?

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The law part or the woo-woo part?

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Let's start with the law and then the woo-woo.

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You know, I'm not sure.

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I really because it's like I remember when I was in kindergarten, I wanted to be a geologist randomly.

00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:40.799
I had like a rock tumbler.

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Remember rock tumblers, they're very popular in the 80s.

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And maybe that's the maybe that's why I like crystals so much now, right?

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I don't know.

00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:53.039
But and then I had a brief stint in like first grade of wanting to be a teacher, which is consistent with now how I also teach.

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We didn't talk about that, but I do teach as well.

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And then it was law, and I don't even remember like when or how people ask me that all the time, and I'm like, I wanted to be a lawyer for so long, I don't even remember my own origin story.

00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:07.600
Wow, I don't I don't I don't know.

00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:14.240
And then by the time I got to high school, when it was like really sort of like you can really be active in doing actually let me back up.

00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:17.840
Even in middle school, we had a speech team.

00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:22.080
We didn't have debate in middle school, but we did have a speech team, a class.

00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:23.360
And I joined that.

00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:26.559
And then, but then when I got to high school, I was like, oh, I'm gonna do debate.

00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:32.080
And then we had mock, we finally got mock trial at my very tiny little school, I think my junior or senior year.

00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:33.279
So I did that then.

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And then I was like, okay, I mean, like, it was just always the path.

00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:39.759
I mean, I went straight from high school to college, I went straight from college to law school.

00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.919
When I graduated law school, I decided to get yet another degree in trial advocacy.

00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:48.720
So it was just always, I don't know, because it was just always the thing.

00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:51.919
I never had that struggle of like, what do I want to do with my life?

00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.399
I was very blessed in some ways.

00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.159
We want to do the LM shout-out.

00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:05.519
So I'm gonna shout out my old buddy, good friend, super awesome leader out there in the construction industry, Mr.

00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:06.799
Buddy Brumley.

00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:09.600
Buddy took the time to leave this review.

00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:20.159
Buddy says, follow Jesse as he brings the truth of mistakes made several times and the cost of being a slow learner at some things.

00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:21.440
Yes, that's me.

00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:26.480
The good, the bad, and the ugly, as he puts it, the learnings and missteps.

00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:32.799
This book will have you wanting to fuss at him, cry with him, and cheer for him.

00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:34.720
It's going to help a lot of people.

00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:36.559
And so that was the review.

00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:42.240
My buddy, Buddy, left on becoming the promise you are intended to be.

00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:44.720
Buddy, thank you for taking the time to do that.

00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:51.039
And for everybody else out there, when you get a chance, you leave a comment, a thumbs up, a star, or whatever, like all those things.

00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:52.720
I love reading the comments.

00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:59.440
They they mean a lot to me, and it gives me an excuse to celebrate you on one of the podcasts in the future.

00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:08.080
That's that's a bit, I mean, well, I always knew what I wanted to do with my life, and it was three options.

00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:12.000
It was bullfighter, clown, or teacher.

00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:14.720
Yeah, those, yeah, I can see that those three choices.

00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:15.840
They make complete sense together.

00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:16.960
Yeah, I'm with you.

00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.279
I just I just haven't got there yet.

00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:21.039
I'm still working on it.

00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:27.679
Okay, so so woo-woo came from the magic tumbler.

00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:36.240
When you were coming up, say middle school, high school time, how did you build your knowledge base in the woo-woo area?

00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:38.879
Was books, like friends.

00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:43.120
I imagine like social network was probably a small part of it.

00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:45.840
No, I'm I'm probably older than you think I am.

00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:51.039
Like Facebook came out when I was a junior or senior in high in college.

00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:52.000
Sorry, in college.

00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:52.799
Ah, okay.

00:12:53.200 --> 00:13:04.799
So I was one of the lucky people, I think lucky, that I didn't have social media when I was like a teenager in those like formative years where you don't want documented history forever of what you did, right?

00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:07.279
I I'm lucky, I didn't have that, right?

00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.440
Which means I also didn't have the weird pressure that goes along with it and all of the downsides of social media.

00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:12.879
I didn't have that, thank God.

00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.200
So that hadn't that had zero influence.

00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:16.639
Like we had AOL, like, right?

00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.679
So we had AOL and Snip Messenger and like chat rooms.

00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:25.600
So that was like, I guess, like the very beginning, tiptoeing into social media, but it was still within your control.

00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:28.879
You had to be sitting at your computer, we didn't have smartphones, none of that stuff.

00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:31.039
So none of that was an influence.

00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.039
I I went to Barnes and Noble a lot.

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Like I've always loved books, I've always loved reading.

00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:37.279
My parents always fostered that in me.

00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:40.000
So I'd go to the library, then we would go to our town library.

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I was like, I grew up in a very small town in southwest Missouri, so I could ride my bike to the library in the summers.

00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:47.759
I was a free range kid, like most of us were.

00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:49.279
I'm like free range kid.

00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:49.679
I love it.

00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.480
Yeah, like it was like we were just like summertime.

00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.879
Guess you're staying home alone this week, this summer, guys.

00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:55.600
I don't know what to tell.

00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:57.519
We didn't do summer camps, we didn't do all that.

00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:58.720
I was a free range kid.

00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:00.480
So I would ride my bike up to the library.

00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:01.919
I had my own library card.

00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:08.159
And then, you know, when I was lucky and on the weekends, my parents would take me to Barnes and Noble a lot, and I would just beeline it for that section.

00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:14.159
And so, yeah, a lot of it came from books, mostly actual literal books, if you can believe it.

00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:16.480
We still I still have literal books.

00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:17.919
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:19.039
That's so cool.

00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:20.720
So you mentioned your parents.

00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:29.039
And I, you know, I know we're of the age, and I think the LM family out there is largely of the age of they have kids or they're on the verge of having kids.

00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:36.480
What role, like, what was the support like from your parents on these two avenues, law and woo-woo?

00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:40.559
Okay, so I was raised Irish Catholic.

00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:47.279
So I would say not much support on the woo-woo side, but not any condemnation either.

00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:55.440
It was just sort of like I don't even really know if my parents really, I mean, like I had like a Ouija board and I bought tarot decks and stuff like that.

00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:58.320
But I think they were just like, whatever, because I was always a good student.

00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:00.000
I was a good kid and I was a good student.

00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:02.320
I wasn't getting into trouble, I was getting good grades.

00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:09.679
So I think my parents kind of had a little bit of like a laissez faire attitude of like, as long as she's doing what she's supposed to be doing, then like let her interests be what they are.

00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:12.240
So in that way, I guess it kind of was supportive, right?

00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:15.840
It was like it, and then on the law side, they were incredibly supportive.

00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:26.399
Like I remember when I would come, so when we would do mock trial and speech and debate tournaments in high school, those were oftentimes that, well, they were always on the weekends, right?

00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:29.279
Because in high school you can't interfere with your class time.

00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:29.679
Right.

00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:38.000
So they'd be on the weekends, and so we'd we would take a bus with our whole team and our coach, and we'd, you know, drive three or four hours away to whatever school was hosting the tournament.

00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:40.000
And my dad would come a lot of the times.

00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:42.000
He would like drive wherever we were going.

00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:42.879
Yeah.

00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:48.960
And then when I got to college, I started doing intercollegiate competitive mock trial, and my team was very good.

00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:53.200
We went to nationals several times and we competed all across the country.

00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.200
And my dad would take off work.

00:15:55.360 --> 00:16:02.399
He would literally take days off of work so he could travel and come and be and sit in my little mock trials.

00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:04.639
I say little because now I do real trials, right?

00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:05.919
So I'm like, oh, that's so cute.

00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:07.840
But back then it was my whole world, right?

00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.480
And like I have uh I have one memory.

00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:12.000
I bet they still have this video.

00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:19.120
I had gone to a really exciting speech and debate tournament over the weekend, and it was it was one of the rare out-of-town ones.

00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:24.480
This was high school, and it was out of town, so we had like stayed in a hotel as high schoolers with like our coach and stuff.

00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:26.159
And it was like a big deal, right?

00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:33.679
So I remember I came home that Sunday and I used to have this like debate box because again, this was like the late 90s, very early 2000s.

00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:35.279
I graduated high school in 2002.

00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:36.639
So everything was still paper.

00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:40.720
We didn't do anything like I didn't, no laptops, no iPads, we didn't do anything electronically, right?

00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:44.639
So I had this like file, like this file plastic file box.

00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:46.000
I'm sure you've seen what I'm talking about.

00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:47.840
Oh, I know exactly what you're doing.

00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:49.519
Yeah, it had like its little handle.

00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.000
I had decorated it with like I was a huge Hanson fan.

00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:59.759
If you remember the Hansen fan band, so I decorated it with all my stuff, and it had all of our, I had a partner on, I did, I did team debate.

00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.639
So I had a partner.

00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.319
We were best friends and we were partners for all four years of high school.

00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:09.440
So we had all of our stuff for the for the topic for the year in this debate box.

00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:12.079
And I was an avid note taker, color-coded notes.

00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:13.759
No wonder I went to law school.

00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:22.240
And so I got home from that tournament and we had done really well, and I was amped up and I was so excited, and I like got my box and I sat down on the living room floor.

00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:24.960
And my parents had like a camcorder.

00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:26.240
Remember those with like the little video.

00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:31.440
Well, yeah, an actual like a camcorder with like a tape.

00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:40.079
And they recorded me, like they recorded the conversation where I was like excitedly telling them about every single I mean, I my poor parents.

00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:53.599
I literally had my notebook out and I went through every note from four rounds of a debate tournament and they recorded the whole thing and they were like actively involved and super engaged and asking questions.

00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:55.680
And so, so I was very, very lucky.

00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:57.519
My parents were incredibly and continue to be.

00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.160
I don't, I shouldn't be, I should not be using the past tense at all.

00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:02.079
My parents are incredibly supportive.

00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:07.920
My mom actually flew out to California from the Midwest to be here when I got sworn in as an attorney.

00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.359
So after I passed the bar, you have to get sworn in, you take the oath in front of a judge.

00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:13.839
And my mom flew out to California to be here for that.

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.599
So my parents have always been incredibly supportive.

00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:19.279
Incredibly supportive.

00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:22.799
Check it out, hometown nurse.

00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:29.200
So primo, he's a little bit embarrassed about like asking for some backup, you know, some esquina.

00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:38.240
And so I want to hit you up and like if if you're digging this content, plus give it on like give it the stars, or or leave a comment, you know.

00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:46.000
But if you really, really wanna see primo like Girochiflado, like for the reels, hit him up on the socials, homes.

00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:52.079
Like if you give him a comment in the socials and let him know what you thought about the thing, but he's gonna light up.

00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:56.960
But only do it if you mean it, because yeah, you already know how primo is.

00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.200
Se cree mucho el cabrón.

00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:05.920
So if you could do that, if you could leave a comment or a rating or the stars or whatever, that would be cool, man.

00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.400
That is that's amazing.

00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:13.759
There's a bet there's a lot of memories there, uh, a lot of good times.

00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:16.880
You know, it makes me think, buddy of mine, we were having a conversation.

00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.079
He was talking about one of his kids is playing some sport.

00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.359
I can't remember which one it was, but it wasn't like a traditional sport.

00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:30.160
And and he's like, you know, I want to support him, but it's the stupidest sport in the world.

00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:32.000
Like, I don't understand it.

00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.319
I go to the thing, but man, it's like it's painful for me.

00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:43.279
And I and I never ever considered that, you know, my mom she was super supportive, baseball specifically.

00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:46.160
She worked a lot, she had to, single mom, right?

00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:48.880
But she was pretty present.

00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:54.720
It never occurred to me that she would be showing up for something purely for my sake.

00:19:54.960 --> 00:20:08.640
And then if you zoom out, you think about all the parents in the world, like how many of them are going, you know, driving, hustling people around town and all the things to be at something that they really don't care about, except the fact that their kid is there.

00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:10.880
Like, that's that's a huge sacrifice.

00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.920
I was never aware of it until just recently.

00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:17.279
Now, you mentioned that like high school, you're a good student in high school.

00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:27.119
So I get the feeling that middle school and high school, the pace of that rigor and workload was too slow for you.

00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:28.079
Am I off?

00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:29.759
No, you're not off.

00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:30.880
You're spot on.

00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.079
In fact, this will probably come as no surprise to you.

00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:40.319
My senior year of high school, our school decided to try to like level up again, small town southwest Missouri.

00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:45.119
So they decided that they were gonna make some changes to the academic programming to try to level up.

00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:51.200
And so they decided that they were gonna basically do the equivalent of like almost like a master's thesis.

00:20:51.440 --> 00:21:05.680
So if you wanted to be able to graduate with honors your senior year, outside of being a part of the National Honor Society, then you had to take this advanced English course, which I was taking anyway, and you had to write a 20-page research paper.

00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.160
Then you had to do a presentation to a panel of three of the teachers.

00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:12.720
So they were trying to really mimic this, like, you know.

00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.279
So I took the class, I wrote the paper.

00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.279
It was about Henry VIII and his wives, by the way.

00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:18.160
It was a very interesting paper.

00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:18.640
I learned a lot.

00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:19.680
I love that paper.

00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:29.279
But I was like, I was so offended at the idea that they were creating what felt to me at the time to be like just busy.

00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.400
Like you're just like, there's no value to us the students for this.

00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.240
You're just trying to make this seem like a bigger deal than it is.

00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:36.880
Yes.

00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:59.920
So I refused to do that part of it, even though I was doing all the other, I did all the other stuff, but I was like, on principle alone, I am not gonna graduate with honors because like my GPA qual like I still I was still part of the National Honor Society, so I still had the sash, but like I did not have that one little distinction because I was like, I'm not doing, I'm not jumping through hoops that don't make any sense just for the sake of jumping through hoops.

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:00.799
I'm not doing it.

00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.960
So yes, you're spot on.

00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:26.400
I can totally appreciate that because there have been many points in my well say academic career that ended in high school where I really I was like, no, like homework, I didn't do homework because to me, homework is practice, and if I understand this thing that they talked about, why would I practice?

00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:29.599
So and it wasn't going fast, anyways.

00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:30.640
My grades were not great.

00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.200
Clearly, I didn't go to law school, no doubt there.

00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.119
I think that's pretty obvious for folks.

00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:50.079
So, if for for any younglings out there, or even parents of younglings, what pointers do you have for those people that have people in their lives that want to go down this study of law?

00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:55.920
What can what should they be thinking about considering for middle schoolers and high schoolers?

00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.039
Oh, so let me just clarify.

00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:04.400
Are you asking what the middle schoolers and high schoolers should be considering or what the parents should be considering?

00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:05.200
Both.

00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:05.839
Okay.

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.119
The middle schoolers and high schoolers should be not considering it.

00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:15.359
And by that, what I mean is I'm not saying don't go to that, I'm not saying don't go to law school, don't be a lawyer.

00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:19.440
I'm not saying that because I got that advice a lot and I always hate, I roll, I would always roll my ass.

00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:21.680
And I'm like, I know what I want to do with my life.

00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:23.119
You're just not listening to me.

00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:27.839
As a kid, it feels dismissive to be told don't do that, don't think that, right?

00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:30.400
It's like, I'm the adult, I know better than you.

00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:31.119
Fuck you.

00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:31.680
No.

00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:40.720
So for so my advice with middle schoolers and high schoolers is like, do you continue to do the things that you find interesting, explore the different things.

00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.440
I was in the high school play my senior year, for example.

00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:46.000
I was like the laughing lady in Death of a Salesman.

00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.119
Do you be happy, explore the things you want to explore.

00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:53.119
If that's the career path you're interested in, great.

00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:57.119
But like it's there's not really much you need to be doing in middle school and high school for that.

00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:00.720
Just know that you need to that you're gonna be in school for a long time.

00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:02.400
I was in school for 27 years.

00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:03.519
Yeah.

00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:04.160
Damn.

00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:09.599
Yeah, but I but I but I just want them to do them and find the things that make them happy and what they're passionate about.

00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:20.160
For the parents, I would say do your homework about what it's going to entail and maybe have the conversations, start the conversations with your kids.

00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:28.559
Because I think more and more, I mean, everybody talk, we talk all the time about the student loan crisis and and all of that stuff.

00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:41.599
And it's at this point, unless you're independently wealthy, you're going to have to take out student loans to go to law school because you're now talking about four years of an undergraduate degree first, followed by three years of law school.

00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:44.880
And so, again, unless you're independently wealthy, that means student loans.

00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:48.160
And so, from a parent standpoint, you need to start looking at what that looks like.

00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.839
I mean, I've graduated law school in 2009.

00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:55.119
I've been making student loan payments that whole time.

00:24:55.440 --> 00:25:03.200
I owe$100,000 more than I borrowed at this point after having been paying my loans.

00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:03.680
Yeah.

00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:04.160
Right?

00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:05.920
It's it's a broken system.

00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:11.279
And if I looked at it from a pure financial standpoint, then I would be saying, do not go to law school.

00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.680
I owe$335,000 in loans right now.

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:16.480
Woof.

00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:16.960
Yeah.

00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:18.319
I'll never pay it off.

00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:20.079
I'll I will never be able to pay it all off.

00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.039
I make my payments every month.

00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:22.000
I'll never be able to pay it off.

00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:28.559
I'll I'll just have to reach that point where I've paid 25 years of payments and then the government forgives it and I have to pay taxes on the forgiven amount.

00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:30.000
So like it just is what it is.

00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:32.720
So if I was looking at it from a pure number standpoint, I would be like, don't do it.

00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:39.839
Unless you're unless you're gonna go into big law and you're you know you're gonna make a salary that is so high that you'll be able to quickly pay off your loans.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:40.400
Don't do it.

00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:43.680
That would be, but but that's not helpful advice to kids.

00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:46.000
But a good helpful advice for parents.

00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:59.119
Parents can understand those processes and those issues and can start figuring out on their end what role they want to play, what guidance they want to offer if they have a kid like me that's like, I'm doing it no matter what, I don't give a shit.

00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:04.400
My prefrontal cortex isn't developed enough to understand the long-term consequences of this choice that I'm making.

00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:06.160
So I'm gonna do what I want to do.

00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:06.880
Right?

00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:14.559
So, like starting to figure out figure out how you can best guide yours guide your kids if they're on that path, and just support them the best way that you can.

00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:57.599
Oh, I think that's the freaking amazing advice because yes, like it's I think for some I'll say it this way an observation that I've had of all the people that I've known in my life and and the parents that I know that are raising kids and seeing how their kids acclimate to whatever that is, is when the student is allowed to explore their curiosities, the outcomes in terms of like low trauma, low baggage, low resentment, full like sense of fulfillment and contribution or quality of life is way higher than the opposite.

00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:02.000
Yeah, and so phenomenal advice, Megan.

00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:04.640
Awesome, and that's free, y'all.

00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:06.079
That's free.

00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:07.599
She she just gave that to us.

00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:10.400
So listen to Megan, because Megan knows.

00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:11.039
All right.

00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:16.640
So middle school, high school, went to university, kick butt, national competitions.

00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:22.880
So you were in law, and like law is not a small thing, it's a big giant thing.

00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:34.960
And you decided what was what's the con what are the connection points between I want to be a lawyer to focusing on construction and litigation and the things that you're into now?

00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:40.480
Yeah, so I always knew that I want to do litigation because litigation is the courtroom.

00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:41.599
That's the courtroom side.

00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:47.680
Like litigation is basically the word that you use to describe lawsuits that go to trial that aren't criminal, right?

00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:53.839
Everybody knows criminal because that's what's on TV and movies, and that's you know what we it's more interesting, so that's what they show us entertainment-wise.

00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:57.200
But litigation is just the non-criminal side of that.

00:27:57.440 --> 00:27:59.759
So I did originally start out in criminal law.

00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:01.440
I don't think you actually know this about me, Jesse.

00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:03.200
I did start out in criminal law.

00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:12.000
Uh I first started doing, we had a clinic at my law school that allowed law students under the supervision of our instructors who were also licensed attorneys, to actually practice.

00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:19.359
And so I did a clinic where I represented people who had been released on parole, were accused of violating their parole.

00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:23.039
And so now they were facing revocation to be sent back to jail.

00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:27.759
And I do say jail on purpose because it was the maximum return to custody time was one year.

00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:29.759
So that's a jail time, not as a prison time.

00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:30.559
Not a prison.

00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:30.799
Yep.

00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:31.200
Yeah.

00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:33.839
And so at the time, this was like 2008-ish.

00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:39.759
At the time in California, the state appointed attorneys to those people to represent them.

00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:43.279
They were in, it was like a public defender, but we were a separate body.

00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:43.599
Okay.

00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:49.519
It was a separate entity that was that provided those attorneys, but they were provided as a matter of right by the state.

00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:51.119
And so I was able to do that.

00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:57.519
And I got to do like four real hearings with real clients and represent them at the parole revocation hearings.

00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:58.880
And so I loved it.

00:28:59.039 --> 00:28:59.519
It was great.

00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:06.079
So then when I graduated law school, I started doing that as one of the paid panel attorneys representing those parolees.

00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:10.160
But meanwhile, I took a little bit of a deviation, and this is where I paused to think what came first.

00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.200
In my third year of law school, I did that clinic my second year.

00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:33.119
In my third year of law school, I actually worked for the Sacramento County District Attorney's Office in the traffic court division because the really cool thing, I don't know if they still do this, but at the time, they would let, so we could be, we could become what's called certified law students, which meant that we could actually do trials by ourselves, be the attorney in the trial.

00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:38.000
And in traffic court at the time, they were just like, here are your cases, go.

00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:41.839
So I got to try all by myself, like a hundred trials.

00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:44.640
And I had like an 85% conviction rate.

00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:47.039
I was like, it was crazy because of traffic court.

00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:53.119
But it was awesome because I got used to like being in front of a judge, talking to a judge, negotiating with opposing attorneys.

00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:53.839
It was really great.

00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:55.279
It was an awesome experience.

00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.119
But that was 2008, 2009.

00:29:57.200 --> 00:29:58.559
We all remember what the economy did.

00:29:58.720 --> 00:29:59.839
All of the county.

00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:02.640
Offices went on hiring freezes.

00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.359
So I didn't have a choice to leave criminal.

00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:06.960
It wasn't an act of decision.

00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:10.880
It was like none of the Ps are hiring and none of the DAs are hiring.

00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:16.880
So I got very lucky that I found a solo practitioner who was doing civil litigation, who was looking to hire somebody.

00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:20.960
And I started working for him while I got that extra degree I mentioned earlier.

00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:30.960
So even though I graduated law school, I decided to get an advanced degree, a master of laws and trial advocacy at Temple University, which is in Philadelphia, even though I lived in California.

00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:31.839
Oh shoot.

00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:32.160
Yeah.

00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:32.799
Yeah.

00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:38.720
So I was flying cross-country once a month, doing doc trials every weekend.

00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:41.119
And working back here for him.

00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:44.400
But because of the law at the time, I was still able to represent parolees.

00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:48.640
So I was working for him, I was representing parolees as a paid attorney.

00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:51.920
And then I was getting that extra degree flying back and forth to Philly.

00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:54.000
So that all wrapped up.

00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.559
The law in California literally changed.

00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:02.960
The voters decided that parolees did not deserve to have an attorney appointed to them at those types of hearings.

00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:04.720
Not quite comment on that.

00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:05.440
It is what it is.

00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:12.799
They drafted the language on the ballot in a very, in my opinion, deceiving and misleading way.

00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:16.640
They called it a victim's rights bill, which had literally no impact on victims at all.

00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:18.559
I that's a whole other conversation.

00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:19.839
I won't be on that path.

00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.480
You and I might have that conversation later, but we don't need to talk about that now.

00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:23.599
So the law changed.

00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.039
So they were no longer providing attorneys to represent parole's at parole hearings.

00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:29.200
So then I was doing the civil litigation full-time.

00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.920
That particular attorney, he saw his practice starting to kind of slow down.

00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:39.279
And he was wonderful in that he said to me, You should start looking for another job.

00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:50.880
Like so that like I'll keep employing you for as long as I can, but like go start looking because I don't want to end up in a situation where I literally can't pay you anymore and you don't have any other options, which I very much appreciated.

00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:51.839
Yes, rare.

00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:53.200
Very rare.

00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:59.119
And so I started interviewing at civil law firms because we still had hiring freezes on the criminal side.

00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:04.720
And I took my interview at the at my firm that I'm at now, back in this is 2012 now.

00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:11.200
And I remember I looked at their website at the time, and the website had a ton of typos on it.

00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:13.599
And I am like a very big grammar person.

00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:16.559
And so I was like, I was so full of myself.

00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:22.640
I was like, I'm gonna take the interview because I want the rep, but I am not gonna work for this firm if they can't even have a typo free website.

00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:23.039
Okay.

00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:26.960
So like I came in all cocky, like whatever.

00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:31.440
And my partner now, Frank, he's the one who started the firm back in 1995.

00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:33.920
He had just come off of a huge trial.

00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.200
Like, literally, when I say just come off of, I mean days.

00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:42.480
So he like the application process had been going on behind the scenes.

00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:44.720
He wasn't involved at all because he was doing this trial.

00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:46.319
And they set my interview.

00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:50.319
It was like his first or second day back in the office after the trial, and he was like, Oh, we got an interview today.

00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:50.960
I'm gonna do it.

00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:51.839
I'm gonna take this interview.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.359
Give me her, give me her info.

00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:54.559
I'm gonna do it.

00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:58.559
So he comes in and Frank has a very unique and brash personality.

00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:01.920
And like me, he's a people love him or hate him, right?

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:02.880
He's very polarizing.

00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.960
I had tend to have that effect on people too.

00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:09.359
So he and I hit it off immediately in the interview, like immediately.

00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.519
And so I was like, oh man, I got I'm gonna definitely end up having to take this job.

00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:15.440
So the rest is history.

00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.240
I came to the firm to get to your question about construction.

00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:19.440
Sorry for being so long-winded.

00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:20.160
Edit what you just want to do.

00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:20.880
No, it's perfect.

00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:21.680
Yeah, this is good.

00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:33.039
But to so when I started at the firm, they had a they had a small construction practice, much smaller than it is now, representing a handful of subcontractors that they had represented for years and years and years.

00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:38.720
They had a defect litigation portfolio, and the attorneys in the firm all hated it.

00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:42.240
They thought it was like a monkey could do it, they didn't respect it.

00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:44.400
They were like, it's so easy.

00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:48.640
So they had a habit of like just pushing it to the newest attorney in the firm.

00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:52.960
They were like, this will be good training for you because it's like so easy, anybody can do it.

00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:53.519
Yeah.

00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:55.920
I'd been I'd been an attorney for about two years at this point.

00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:58.160
So as a new girl in, they were like, here you go.

00:33:58.240 --> 00:33:59.440
This is your thing.

00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:08.559
I got super lucky because the main client at the time, a concrete client, hired a new GM, like literally within a month of me starting.

00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:14.079
So it starts and he's looking at their PL and he's like, you know what, we're spending a lot on legal.

00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.360
I want to personally dig into this and figure out what's going on here.

00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:25.039
So he came in at the same time I came in, we hit it off, and we both were like, let's take ownership of this shit.

00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:26.880
Let's decrease your bill.

00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:34.159
I should be quiet as I say this because I was like, let's figure out a way for you not to have to pay my firm this much money.

00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:35.440
Right, right, right.

00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:35.840
Right.

00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.159
And so I discovered through that relationship that like I actually love concrete.

00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:41.679
I'm a huge concrete nerd.

00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:44.000
Like, I love everything about concrete.

00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:45.519
I didn't know, but I do.

00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:51.840
Like, I got to, I finally got to go to World of Concrete in 2017, and it still is in like the top five highlights of my life.

00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.159
Like, I can't wait to be able to get to go back to World of Concrete again.

00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:55.119
Love concrete.

00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:58.239
Love that, love that client, loved the process.

00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:07.519
So he and I together sort of created our own approach, our own system, how we wanted to tackle this huge construction defect litigation portfolio.

00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:11.199
And I went to the partners at the time, as like a little baby lawyer.

00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:13.360
I went to the partners at the time and I said, you know what?

00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.440
Like, I love this.

00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:17.679
I want to take ownership of this.

00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:22.960
This no longer has to be the sort of like redheaded stepchild that gets passed down to new attorneys.

00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:24.000
Like, I want to own it.

00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:25.920
I'm I'm taking ownership, it's mine.

00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:29.920
Because it's actually really complicated and nuanced if you take the time to dig in.

00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:38.960
There's so much room for strategy in the world of construction law, so much room for strategy if you just take the time to like learn that, right?

00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:44.239
To know realize if you pay enough attention to it to really realize it's awesome, right?

00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:47.840
So they were like, okay, go for it.

00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:49.920
Take it.

00:35:50.159 --> 00:36:03.599
So then fast forward, I built up the practice, and now 95% of my day-to-day is construction litigation, mostly subcontractors, some owners, some GCs, but I always say subs have my heart because that's where I started.

00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:05.199
And the sort of the rest is history.

00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.440
I mean, like I still represent that same concrete sub.

00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:09.119
That GM is still there.

00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:10.719
My practice has grown.

00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:25.360
I'm very, very proud to be able to say that the bulk of my client portfolio are long-term client relationships that I've had for a decade or more at this point, because that's the approach that I take to my relationships with my clients.

00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:27.119
I don't, I want to build a relationship.

00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:31.440
I don't want to have I don't like to have cases, I like to have clients.

00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:34.880
Yes, yes, I love it.

00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:42.960
Oh, and to reinforce what you said at the beginning of the conversation, like your passion absolutely is coming through.

00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:54.239
And and I I feel you, sister, and people, y'all need to know, like this level of energy doesn't come for stuff that people don't give a shit about.

00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:54.880
Right?

00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.760
Like you care, so it's like this reinforcing thing.

00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.280
You get something out of it, you put more into it, and the energy keeps coming.

00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:03.679
I've got two questions.

00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:05.760
One is ultra, ultra important.

00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:08.880
Did you fix the typos on the website?

00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:09.440
Yes.

00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:14.960
In fact, just this last year, actually, I think it was last year, maybe within the last two years.

00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:16.800
I actually have graduated now.

00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:19.199
I'm now a name partner, my name is on the wall.

00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.760
I I own part of the firm.

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:23.840
The remaining partners are gone.

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:28.000
We have new partners, Frank and I have new partners now, but it's primarily me and him.

00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:29.440
We're the two equity partners.

00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.880
And I told him a couple of years ago, I like, I'm owning the website.

00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:35.599
So I actually designed our current version of our website.

00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:36.800
I'm working with a marketing team.

00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:38.400
I've got a call with them later today, actually.

00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:40.239
We're in the process of redoing it.

00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:44.480
But yes, I I designed the current version of our website and wrote all the copy myself.

00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:46.239
So yes, the typos are gone.

00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:46.960
Awesome.

00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:50.800
So I'm gonna I'll make sure to post the link in the show notes.

00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:54.159
And folks, if there's any typos, you know who to contact.

00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:55.280
Yeah, give it to me.

00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:56.000
Give it to me.

00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:56.719
I'll take it.

00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:57.840
I'll eat crow.

00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:12.079
So the second question I have, I'm trying to in my head, I'm trying to figure out like sequencing, because I think when when I've been involved or enthralled myself into things, new things surface, right?

00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:13.920
Like another layer, another nuance.

00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.320
Like, oh, oh, and I I kind of chase that.

00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:24.719
And when people look at it from current state, it appears as if I've always been focused on this one thing.

00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:26.000
Kind of like I mentioned earlier, right?

00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:28.320
People focus, that's all I talk about.

00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.880
That's not where I started, right?

00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:39.119
I started process and eventually discovered that well, there's like people are really important because without the people, processes don't work.

00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:51.599
And so as that relates to what I've heard from you so far, you started off in litigation, and now what I uh a lot of the messaging I hear from you is around risk management.

00:38:52.000 --> 00:39:08.719
And am I wrong in thinking the the techniques, the strategy, the tactics on how you serve people in terms of mitigating risk came from litigating stuff and saying, oh, there's a trip hazard, oh, there's another trip hazard.

00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:09.360
Yeah?

00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:10.079
100%.

00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:16.159
And I mean, this is why when people like when people start asking me, like, what do you mean when you talk about risk management in construction?

00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:24.159
The very first thing I say is like, okay, most people when they hear risk in construction, they're usually hearing about it from somebody in the insurance space.

00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:35.119
It's usually right, it's usually brokers, it's usually captives, it's usually carriers that are doing these like quote unquote risk management trainings because they're trying to reduce claims.

00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:42.000
It's all motivated by like the multi-billion dollar insurance conglomerate trying to save a few bucks on your claim.

00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:43.440
Sorry, fuck that.

00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:49.039
Like, I don't, it's not insurance, it's an important part of a proactive risk management strategy.

00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:54.239
It's an important piece of the puzzle, it's one small piece and it's reactive by nature, right?

00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:57.280
Because you're only dealing with insurance once you have a problem.

00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:58.159
It's reactive.

00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:00.159
So insurance pisses me off.

00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:01.840
I've sued a lot of insurance carriers.

00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:04.079
It does, I'm sorry, this you want to talk about passion.

00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:05.440
Get me going on insurance, okay?

00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:06.480
That's the one, huh?

00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:12.559
Listen, I love suing insurance carriers because of how much they screw over their own clients.

00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:13.440
It's ridiculous.

00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:13.920
Yeah.

00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:17.119
So I get real mad when people are like, oh, risk is insurance.

00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:18.079
You must be an insurance.

00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:20.880
I'm like, I am absolutely not, right?

00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.639
So, because my whole approach, you nailed it on the head.

00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:32.480
I've been litigating for almost 15 years now, and I'm sitting here going, like, especially with my long-term clients, I've been with you long enough now.

00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:43.039
If we start learning some of these lessons and applying them on the front end, we can avoid litigation all altogether, or because you can't always avoid litigation in construction, we all know that.

00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:46.400
When we end up in litigation, we'll be in a better position.

00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:48.719
We'll have all the documentation we need.

00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:52.880
So 100%, my entire system, my framework, aim for higher profits.

00:40:53.039 --> 00:41:01.840
It all comes from it is informed by the lessons I have learned from litigating this shit on the back end for 15 years.

00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:04.480
Let's be strategic, guys.

00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:07.440
Let's talk about this stuff in the beginning.

00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.239
And yeah, not from an insurance standpoint.

00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:14.400
I don't I have zero interest in saving AIG 50 grand.

00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:17.679
Zero interest in that.

00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:21.679
Give the policy benefits to the people who are paying their premiums.

00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:22.800
It's not that difficult.

00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:24.000
Oh my gosh.

00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:26.239
I love it.

00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:26.960
I'm with you.

00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:28.000
I'm with you.

00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:31.119
So here's a thought.

00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:35.039
I wonder, is there a level of resistance?

00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:48.000
What are the similarities or differences, whichever makes the most sense for you, in terms of when you're talking to a current client about risk mitigation and a prospect about risk mitigation?

00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:53.840
What do you see any similarities or differences into how they receive that and how open they are to it?

00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:54.400
100%.

00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:55.679
I think for two reasons.

00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.880
Of course, my my current clients are going to be way more receptive to it.

00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:00.480
And I think for two reasons, right?

00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:02.800
One, we have a trusting relation.

00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:03.920
They trust me.

00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:06.400
They trust me with their business at this point.

00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:09.199
I mean, I just had, you were there, Jesse.

00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:14.880
I just had my own live stream a couple of days ago where I actually had one of my law firm clients on and she told a really powerful story.

00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:19.519
They had a lawsuit that was literally potentially catastrophic for the company.

00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.960
And it was all on my shoulders.

00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:22.000
And I got them through it.

00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:24.400
And I'm not saying that to like pat myself on the back.

00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:31.360
I'm saying that because when I then go to them and I say, hey guys, I think we should try this thing on the front end, they're they don't even have to question.

00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:32.559
They don't even have to pause.

00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:34.559
They're like, okay, let's do it, right?

00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:37.360
Because I've already like I already have that trust with them.

00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:38.800
I've already proven myself with them.

00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:40.480
So I think that's one reason.

00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:45.920
The other reason is because my clients all came to me as a result of being involved in litigation.

00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:48.719
So they already had that worst case scenario happen.

00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:52.880
And then we move the relationship up that allows us to be proactive, right?

00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.199
But they they've already experienced a worst case.

00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:58.960
Whereas if I'm talking to a prospective new client, first of all, they don't know me and trust me.

00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:00.000
And I don't blame them for that.

00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:06.000
There are a lot of people out there that are pushing magic bullets to increase profits, and there's nothing behind it.

00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:06.880
There really isn't.

00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:11.599
And so I don't blame them for looking at me like, okay, sure, you you've got the solution.

00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:12.719
I don't blame them for that.

00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:14.719
But that's so but that's one challenge, right?

00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:21.920
And then the other one is if they're lucky, a lot of times they either haven't been in business long enough.

00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:28.320
Yeah, usually that's why, they haven't been in a situation where they're where they have faced a catastrophic loss.

00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:30.880
And so they don't understand how high the stakes can be.

00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:33.280
They have a huge blind spot to risk.

00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:44.559
They don't know what they don't know, and they don't know what risk they're actually holding, especially new, like I've talked on LinkedIn lately about this fictional character I created called Jake the Mason, right?

00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:48.960
And it's like such a because it resonated with so many people because it's such a common story, right?

00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:51.280
Like Jake the Mason was a great Mason.

00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:54.559
He started taking work on the side on the weekends because he was so good at what he did.

00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:57.599
He brought his buddies in to help because he kept getting more and more side work.

00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:01.679
He finally is like, I'm just gonna start my own masonry business because I'm a great Mason.

00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:02.559
That's wonderful.

00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:03.920
But Jake doesn't know how to run a business.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:06.880
And Jake is now out there operating as a sole proprietor.

00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:08.480
I will have a heart attack.

00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:16.320
Jake doesn't know that his house is on the line, that his car is on the line, that his wife's car is on the line.

00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:18.079
They don't know what they don't know.

00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:25.920
And so because they don't realize how risky they are actually being, they don't see the value in investing on the front end and being proactive about it.

00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:41.119
And so, by on the line, for clarity, I think you it the way that translates to me is if a client were to go after them for damages, they could get access to all of their personal assets.

00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:41.760
Exactly.

00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:46.400
So when you're operating as a sole proprietor, that means that you don't have any legal protection.

00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.719
There's no difference between you and your business.

00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:54.719
Even if you have a business license, even if you have insurance, there's no legal protection there.

00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:59.920
That's why an LLC, a limited liability corporation, is like the bare minimum you need to do.

00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:01.440
That is your barrier.

00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:07.039
That is your protection of your personal assets versus the assets of the business.

00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:31.360
And if you, I don't care if you've got separate bank accounts, I don't care if you're operating like you are an LLC, if you do not have that corporate formation in place, if you face a catastrophic loss that either exceeds your policy limits or, God forbid, is an uncovered claim, meaning you don't have any insurance for the claim, they can go beyond just your business bank account into your personal bank account where you buy groceries.

00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:39.679
If you don't have enough money in your bank account to satisfy a judgment, they can put a lien on your home.

00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:51.039
Like I get real passionate about this one because I'm so scared for these construction guys who are operating as whole proprietors and think it's not worth their time, energy, effort, or money to like take that extra step.

00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:54.079
And it's so easy and it's not expensive at all.

00:45:54.320 --> 00:46:00.079
It's really like California is probably one of, I'm sure it's one of the more expensive places to do it because we're more expensive at everything.

00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:03.760
And even here, it's only$800 a year to be to have an LLC.

00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:05.360
Like, why will you not do that?

00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.000
And they won't, they don't do it because they don't know what they don't know.

00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:08.960
Right, right.

00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:09.519
A lot.

00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:19.679
Well, hopefully, folks, LM family out there, what you just heard, and I promise I'm probably I'm gonna clip that to help people understand because it it's real, right?

00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:25.199
I you probably can guess this, Megan, but I'm a pretty risk tolerant person.

00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:35.519
No, I'm probably riskier than I should be, but it doesn't until you know the pain, it's really not a thing, right?

00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:38.320
It's a myth, it's uh it's the boogeyman.

00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:42.000
But we are talking about your home.

00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:47.920
We are talking about your children's future here, that that's what's at risk.

00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:51.840
Like for real, for real, that's what at what's at risk.

00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:58.639
It's not a matter of well, that doesn't happen to me because I'm you know an excellent operator.

00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.800
Yeah, it's really a matter of it hasn't happened to you yet.

00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:06.559
Like it it the longer period.

00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:28.559
I heard a a story, I think I heard on a podcast, they're talking about this group of entrepreneurs, and they're talking about like the requirements to be a part of this group, and so there was a certain amount of revenue and and you know, whatever, certain number of businesses they had to have started, which I'm like, oh yeah, this is all woo-woo, like elitism, bullshit.

00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:35.280
And then they said the other requirement was you had to have at least filed for bankruptcy once.

00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:36.320
Wow.

00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:41.440
And then I'm like, holy okay, like that's real talk there.

00:47:41.599 --> 00:48:02.079
Like that's real, not saying the goal is to be filing for bankruptcy, but the lessons you learn that drive you to bankruptcy are tremendous, and then because of the pain, now it's for real, yeah, sets you up to mitigate your risk in a more responsible manner going forward.

00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:03.199
What do you think about that?

00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:16.239
Yeah, I mean, first of all, I mean, like I love and hate it because it's like, okay, I get a little bit upset about these sort of elitist organizations for entrepreneurs because I'm like, okay, but like the little guys are the ones who need it more, right?

00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:18.159
And it's like just being so exclusionary.

00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:19.760
I don't like gatekeeping, whatever.

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:25.119
But I do love the idea of like you have to have failed and failed catastrophically, right?

00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:27.599
Because that's that's where growth happens, right?

00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:29.039
Like we grow, we learn more.

00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:32.320
I'm I'm a huge advocate of like Carol Dweck's you know, growth mindset.

00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:33.760
Love that book, it's great.

00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:34.719
I'm all about it.

00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:36.880
So it's like that's where the learning comes in.

00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:41.679
That's where the the growth comes from, is like those catastrophic failures.

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:56.400
Now, with that said, to go back a second, learn the catastrophic failure when it's your company that files for bankruptcy, not when it's you as an individual that now has to file for bankruptcy.

00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.840
Right it's different.

00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:01.280
They're very, very different.

00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:01.920
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:04.320
Have a company that fails.

00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:05.760
Learn those lessons.

00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:08.239
Don't lose your house over it.

00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:15.280
Girl, I file I got my LLC, and I was like, you know how many times people you go?

00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:20.800
I'm like, oh God, like that's all like this is the stupidest thing in the world.

00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:24.719
I think for the first time I feel better about it.

00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:28.239
Because I'm like, I don't want to feel out, like, come on, dude.

00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:31.519
Like, I don't, I don't need to do, like, I don't need to.

00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:39.039
And I think here's like for high-risk tolerant people like me, I don't have to do it to start a business.

00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:39.599
Right.

00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:43.679
So in my brain, it's not necessary.

00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:44.559
Yeah.

00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:51.199
But if something goes wrong, it becomes really necessary.

00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:52.079
Yeah.

00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:53.920
Or really valuable, I should say.

00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:54.320
Yeah.

00:49:54.400 --> 00:50:00.880
And I want to I want to just pause because now you've said it twice and I want to talk about this for a second because you took you talked about your risk tolerance, right?

00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:03.280
And that is so key.

00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:11.360
So when when I work with clients, whether it's through my online course or my individual or whatever, my in-person trainings, whatever it is outside of the law firm.

00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:14.800
When I'm I'm not talking about law clients, I'm talking about proactive risk management clients.

00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:18.159
The first step is a risk tolerance assessment.

00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:26.719
So I have a customized risk tolerance assessment that I have created because proactive risk management strategies are not one size fits all.

00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:32.079
I don't want somebody to be deterred because they're like you and they're like, I've I've got a high risk tolerance.

00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:37.760
I'm willing to roll the dice, I'm willing to gamble, therefore, I don't need to even think about this stuff because I've got such a high risk tolerance.

00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:44.800
There are still things like an LLC, like the minimum stuff that would still benefit you even with a high risk tolerance.

00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.199
And so that's why I love to start there because I'm like, okay, great.

00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:52.800
I can still help you in key ways, even if you have a super high risk tolerance.

00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:56.719
Or on the other side, the flip side of that coin, I actually have a very low risk tolerance.

00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:58.719
I am a very risk-averse person.

00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:02.559
My course is created for somebody like me because it's easier to scale back.

00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:07.519
So I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you the level 100, you don't want any risk at all.

00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:08.320
Here it is.

00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:17.599
And then as you have a higher and higher risk tolerance, you can pick and choose from the buffet of strategies about what makes the most sense for you and your specific risk tolerance.

00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:19.840
I like that.

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:20.639
Oh, okay.

00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:26.960
So we're gonna have to come back to that because in that there's multiple ways that you serve.

00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:29.679
So you serve in your practice, you're a partner at your practice.

00:51:29.840 --> 00:51:32.079
Congratulations, because I know that ain't no small thing.

00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:32.559
Thank you.

00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:35.039
It's actually a pretty freaking monumental thing.

00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:35.920
Congratulations.

00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:36.480
Thank you.

00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:38.639
I know that you have an online course.

00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:42.000
I know that you teach at university.

00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:50.480
And I just heard that you have like a different coaching thing that sounds like in-person risk mitigation thing.

00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:53.360
Is it only four or are there more?

00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:54.400
Am I missing other things?

00:51:54.559 --> 00:51:56.880
One, two, three, four, five.

00:51:56.960 --> 00:51:57.440
There's five.

00:51:57.519 --> 00:51:57.679
Okay.

00:51:57.760 --> 00:51:58.800
I'm like, whew, let me think.

00:51:58.880 --> 00:51:59.199
Okay, yeah.

00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:00.800
So lawyer, done.

00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:02.320
We talked a lot about that.

00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:04.960
The online course is, yeah, that's one.

00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:08.880
I don't like the word coaching for myself.

00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:10.400
And here's why.

00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:11.280
Two reasons.

00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:15.840
One, I think it's a diluted market, and I think it's really easy to dismiss somebody who says I'm a coach.

00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:16.719
Actually, three reasons.

00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:17.679
So that's one.

00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:21.440
Two, there are actual coach certifications out there and I don't have them.

00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:28.000
You don't have to have them, but as somebody who likes takes obviously certifications pretty fucking seriously since I got a bar license, right?

00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:30.320
Like I don't have that certification.

00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:36.400
So I feel like it's disingenuous and a little bit disrespectful to the people who took that effort and time to go get that certification.

00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:37.360
I don't have it.

00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:44.320
But also, three, I feel like a lot of times in my experience, coaches really tend to focus more on mindset.

00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:47.360
And that's valuable in its own little silo.

00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:49.360
Like I've got I've had coaches before.

00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:50.800
I need help with mindset.

00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:55.039
That's great for what it is, but I don't really give a shit about mindset.

00:52:55.119 --> 00:52:59.039
I talk strategy, and I don't really think that's coaching.

00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:04.400
So what I say is I do one-on-one strategies, strategy sessions.

00:53:04.639 --> 00:53:12.400
So other people might characterize that as coaching, but I call it one-on-one strategy sessions because it's not, I'm not talking to you about your mindset around risk.

00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:17.599
I'm talking to you about these are the eight areas that you are facing risk.

00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:21.519
These are the things you need to know, and these are the strategies you need to implement.

00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:28.960
Let's talk about your company and your business, and let's create in this session an actionable plan that you're ready to go back and implement.

00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:29.519
Okay.

00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:31.840
So I don't like coaching to describe that.

00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:33.119
It's different, I think.

00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:33.760
I love it.

00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:34.079
Okay.

00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:36.559
And thank you for the clarity because yes, yes.

00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:40.239
And I'm on the other end again on the certification thing.

00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:41.280
Yeah, yeah.

00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:47.440
But I I completely appreciate your perspective and I can appreciate and value certifications.

00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:47.840
Yeah.

00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:50.000
But also path of least resistance.

00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:51.679
If I don't need it, I ain't gonna get it.

00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:54.639
Yeah, and again, I'm not trash talking coaches.

00:53:54.800 --> 00:53:57.440
I just think that what they do is very different than what I do.

00:53:57.599 --> 00:54:00.719
I don't want paralegals saying they're lawyers because they're not, right?

00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:05.039
They're super important, super valuable, but they're not lawyers, they're paralegals.

00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:08.400
So, and then the other one is is yeah, in-person trainings.

00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:10.159
So, oh, and I and teaching.

00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:12.480
So, sorry, uh, four is in-person trainings.

00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:15.440
So I come out to your job, I prefer to do it in person.

00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:17.119
I think that's where the magic happens.

00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:25.519
I mean, I'll do Zoom if that's the client's preference, but I prefer to come and be there in person at the business, dig in to the actual business.

00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:28.400
So I take that same framework that's in my online course.

00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:30.639
It's an eight, eight-module framework.

00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:32.079
I take that same thing.

00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:33.280
I come into the business.

00:54:33.519 --> 00:54:37.440
The first day is I meet with the key stakeholders, I'll call them.

00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:39.760
Usually that's owners and maybe C-suite.

00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:44.719
And we go through the whole system as it pertains to your company specifically.

00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:53.920
And by the end of that day, we have now mapped out at the key stakeholder level what the company's new proactive risk management policies and procedures are going to be.

00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:55.280
Now we have that plan.

00:54:55.760 --> 00:54:59.119
Day two, training two, doesn't happen the next day.

00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:01.360
This is where I think I'm maybe a little bit different.

00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:01.920
Yeah.

00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:05.679
This happens a month or so later, depending on schedule availability.

00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:14.960
I come back, but now I'm with supers, PMs, foremen, and maybe some key field guys based on what the company thinks is important.

00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:16.880
And now it's the train the trainer session.

00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:22.000
So it's now me saying, all right, this is these are the new risk management policies and procedures that your company is implementing.

00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:26.559
I'm gonna train you on them, and then I'm going to train you this afternoon on how to train your field guys.

00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:33.360
Because from a proactive risk management standpoint, I'm here to tell you the most important part of that equation is the field guys.

00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:37.840
The field guys are hands down the most important part of a proactive risk management strategy.

00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:38.800
Preach.

00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:39.199
Yes.

00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:40.000
Hands down.

00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:41.519
So there's that.

00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:50.079
And then, yes, I'm also I teach construction law and contracts as part of the construction management program at UC Davis's continuing professional education school.

00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:50.880
So I do that as well.

00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:52.159
So that's all five.

00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:53.760
Oh, baby.

00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:54.800
So you busy.

00:55:55.119 --> 00:56:01.920
And and you're active on the LinkedIn, active on social media, and the juicy part.

00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:06.480
We we almost completely skipped this construction love story part.

00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:08.239
Oh, yeah, we did.

00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:14.960
You're happily married to a fellow construction worker, but he actually still works, not like me.

00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:16.960
I'm just I'm a house cat now.

00:56:17.119 --> 00:56:18.960
How did like what happened there?

00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:19.519
Yeah.

00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:25.119
So the same year that I made partner at the firm, actually, 2017, I was going through a divorce.

00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:29.280
And I had one of my subcontractor clients who I'd had for years at that point.

00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:35.840
By the way, they're one of the most proactive risk management clients I've ever had.

00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:41.440
They have invested in proactive risk management, like fully invested from the beginning.

00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:50.159
And as part of that, my husband Jeremy was working for them at the time as like a hybrid superintendent slash PM slash risk management guy.

00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.480
Like he was the, he was like the fixer.

00:56:52.639 --> 00:57:00.639
So when projects would go bad, he was the one that they would send to the job, because he's very like charismatic and personable, so he can have those difficult conversations in a way that's not alienating, right?

00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:10.320
So they had brought me in to do a training with the key stakeholders, including all the super Zelda PMs, when I was doing a training with them, and he sort of like spotted me from the back of the room.

00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:15.679
So fast forward, I made partner, and so the owner of the company wanted to take me out to celebrate.

00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:21.840
I was like, it was like a month of just like drunken debauchery because making partner, right?

00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:23.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:35.440
You know, and so so they they wanted to take me out to dinner and they like roped Jeremy in because he had just he was also divorced and had just recently gotten out of his first long-term relationship post-divorce.

00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:36.880
They were together for about a year.

00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:37.599
Okay.

00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:43.039
And he was in what I'm gonna affectionately refer to as his tender era at the time.

00:57:43.679 --> 00:57:44.400
At the time.

00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:51.840
And I was like, I wasn't, I was just like, I had just basically told my husband, I'm like, I'm out, I want a divorce, this has been over for years, whatever.

00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:53.519
So I wasn't dating or anything yet.

00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:55.679
And so the client was like, hey, you know what?

00:57:55.760 --> 00:58:01.039
Like, Megan will be a good influence on Jeremy because she's a hell of a lot better than like what he's been doing.

00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:05.519
And Jeremy will be a good distraction for Megan since she's like like at the beginning part of this process.

00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:08.239
So they thought we would just be like a fun distraction for each other.

00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:14.800
So they were like, hey, Jeremy, we're gonna take our lawyer out to out to dinner or yeah, out to dinner to celebrate making partner.

00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:15.440
You know what?

00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:16.880
I just told this story in the wrong order.

00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:18.000
I hadn't done the training yet.

00:58:18.079 --> 00:58:21.360
I forgot this part because he didn't know who I was.

00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:25.039
So when the when his boss was like, we're gonna go out with our lawyer, you should come.

00:58:25.199 --> 00:58:28.400
He, of course, was envisioning what a lot of people who've never dealt with an attorney think of.

00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:32.079
Like the old fat white-haired dude, right?

00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:36.719
Like, not to be crude, but that's I'm repeating his version of this story.

00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:44.079
So he's like, Okay, like felt like he couldn't say no, but had zero interest in actually going to this dinner.

00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:44.719
Yeah.

00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:46.800
So I get there, they were already there.

00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:51.599
I got there a few minutes late because I was coming from somebody else having taken me out for drinks to celebrate making partners.

00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:55.599
So I came late and I walked in and he was like, Wait, what?

00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:57.280
That's that's our lawyer.

00:58:57.440 --> 00:58:59.519
Because I mean, I was 30, I was 34 back then.

00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:00.559
I looked a lot better.

00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:03.360
So he was like, That's our lawyer.

00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:07.440
So we hit it off because he's a very personable guy and stayed friends.

00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:08.960
Then I came in and did the training.

00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:14.880
I found out after the fact that like he and some of the other supers and PMs were like, you gotta get with Megan, right?

00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:17.199
So he was like about it before I was.

00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:25.199
So fast forward a couple of months, we were down in San Diego at uh PCBC, Pacific Coast Builders Convention, I think is what it stands for.

00:59:25.360 --> 00:59:25.519
Okay.

00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:28.320
And I had a different client who had rented a yacht.

00:59:28.400 --> 00:59:30.159
And so they were like, Megan, come out on the yacht.

00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:34.159
And if you have other clients that are at the convention, bring them out on the yacht.

00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:38.239
So the client was down there, and I was like, Hey, do you guys want to come out on the yacht?

00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:42.000
Jeremy, meanwhile, was back up in Northern California at a job site.

00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:50.000
So my client, his boss, bought him a ticket, called him, and he was like, Hey, I know you're at this job site in San Jose.

00:59:50.079 --> 00:59:51.760
There's a ticket waiting for you at SFO.

00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:53.760
You're flying down to San Diego right now.

00:59:53.920 --> 00:59:57.599
And Jeremy was like, And he's like in like he's in the field.

00:59:57.679 --> 00:59:59.840
So he's like looking down, he's like, my genius.

01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:00.800
Are dirty.

01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:02.719
I don't have a toothbrush.

01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:03.679
Like, what?

01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:06.079
Just go, we'll figure it out.

01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:08.000
Literally, literally.

01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:12.800
So he flies down, goes out on this yacht with me, and asks me out.

01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:14.559
And I'm like, yeah.

01:00:14.719 --> 01:00:17.440
And I'm like, such a lawyer answer.

01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:21.360
I go, like, I have to do some legal research first.

01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:26.880
Because I didn't literally, yeah, because I didn't know he's a client.

01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:29.440
And I didn't know that his boss was like orchestrating this.

01:00:29.599 --> 01:00:30.880
Nobody had like looped me in.

01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:34.239
So I'm like, I don't know how my client is gonna feel about that.

01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:40.719
You're in management, so there's a chance you could have your deposition taken and I would be the attorney defending you at your deposition.

01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:43.119
I don't, I let I don't know.

01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:47.039
I literally don't know if I can go out with you, regardless of if I want to or not.

01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:48.320
I don't know if I can.

01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:49.280
So he was great.

01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:53.280
And he was like, okay, well, like, just just know it's an open invitation.

01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:55.360
Good for him.

01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:56.000
Hell yeah.

01:00:56.239 --> 01:00:56.400
Yeah.

01:00:56.559 --> 01:00:59.679
So I literally did the legal research and he was like persistent.

01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:01.760
I was sort of just like, well, I don't know, whatever.

01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:02.639
But he didn't stop.

01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:04.800
He was like, kept asking, kept asking.

01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:06.400
Finally, he was like, you know what?

01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:07.360
I just want to be your friend.

01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:10.159
If you're not interested, that's fine, no pressure.

01:01:10.480 --> 01:01:13.039
I we I just want to be your friend outside of like work.

01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:15.440
And so that was the thing where I was like, okay, I'll go on a date with you.

01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:23.599
So we went on our first date, and I was like, okay, let's not tell your boss about the first date because let's see if there's anything to even tell, right?

01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:26.800
Like, I know I like you, but like maybe we just don't have that chemistry.

01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:29.119
It was like the most amazing first date ever.

01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:30.400
It was like out of a movie.

01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:33.840
It was like love at first sight or love at first date.

01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:36.079
We've we have not been apart since.

01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:44.960
He immediately like deleted his like all of his dating apps, ended every like conversation that he was having with every other girl from like literally that night.

01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:51.679
We got married on the anniversary of our first date because it was literally like we were never, we were never apart.

01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:58.559
We now have a child, we have a son together, and it was it was really interesting because we both said when we started dating, like, hey, I don't want to get married again.

01:01:58.639 --> 01:02:00.719
Like both of us were like, we don't want to get married again.

01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:05.679
He already he has a son from his prior marriage who's wonderful, but so he was like, I don't want more kids.

01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:09.199
And I was like, I don't want kids, so that works, right?

01:02:09.440 --> 01:02:09.840
I know.

01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:16.000
So fast forward, and so I remember we were laying in bed one day, and he goes, like, he rolled over and he was like, Hey, you know what?

01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:22.559
Like, I've been thinking a lot about this, and I don't want to be the reason that you don't get to experience motherhood.

01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:27.920
If that's something that you want, I'm open to being the one that like makes that happen for you.

01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:34.960
And I was like, Oh, I gotta think about this because I don't, I uh okay, let me think about it.

01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:37.920
So, yeah, so now we've been that was 2017.

01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:39.119
We've been together ever since.

01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:42.480
Our son is five and happily married.

01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:45.360
So that is an amazing story.

01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:46.159
Oh my god.

01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:48.000
He does not work for that client anymore.

01:02:48.079 --> 01:02:52.079
He's now a superintendent for a mechanical uh company in here in Sacramento.

01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:53.840
But but yeah, so I still represent the client.

01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:56.159
He doesn't work there anymore, but it's a love story.

01:02:56.559 --> 01:02:57.360
So awesome.

01:02:57.599 --> 01:02:59.760
That's that's a you got there's a movie there.

01:02:59.840 --> 01:03:02.159
I think there's a Netflix series in there for sure.

01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:04.400
Especially like with the yacht and all that.

01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:06.639
That's that's freaking awesome.

01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:10.320
All right, two questions as we round third and head home.

01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:10.800
Okay.

01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:21.599
One, like we you said you have five things, jobs, things that you do, but you're also like planning retreats or a mini conference or something.

01:03:21.679 --> 01:03:22.480
You do that too.

01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:25.360
Like you're like an event organizer, also, yeah.

01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:36.480
Well, there is a conference, but I have to give it's so interesting that we're rounding out with this because we started out talking about my parents, and you're gonna be surprised to hear this, but this involves my dad.

01:03:36.639 --> 01:03:37.199
So, yeah.

01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:43.199
So, what happened was I made an off-handed comment to like to somebody in the construction space on LinkedIn one time.

01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:47.840
We were doing a coffee chat, and I was like, wouldn't it be cool if like a bunch of us got together in one place like we used to do?

01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:50.320
Remember pre-COVID when we actually still networked in person?

01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:52.400
Wouldn't it be fun if we like all got together?

01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:53.840
And he was like, Yeah, that would be awesome.

01:03:53.920 --> 01:03:54.719
You should organize that.

01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:55.519
And I was like, Okay.

01:03:55.679 --> 01:04:01.199
Then I had like another coffee chat like a week later, and I said it again, and that person was like, Yeah, you should organize that.

01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:06.480
And then I think a week after that, I talked to you and I said the same thing, and you were like, Yeah, you should organize that.

01:04:06.559 --> 01:04:07.440
So I was like, Okay.

01:04:07.599 --> 01:04:15.119
So I started kind of thinking about it, and then next thing you know, Josh Havi has a podcast with John Goose Dunham on it.

01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:21.360
I'm listening to the replay, and they're like, Oh yeah, Megan Shapiro, she's hosting a retreat, a construction retreat in Savannah in September.

01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:22.960
And I was like, I'm doing what now?

01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:25.119
What's happening?

01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:26.000
It's a retreat now.

01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:33.519
Oh, I thought that we were gonna like pick a city and all just be like, okay, let what weekend should we all just go to this random city and hang out with each other?

01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:36.960
No, so now it, yeah, so yeah, so now it's a full three-day retreat.

01:04:37.039 --> 01:04:41.280
It's called Construction LinkedIn in real life, hashtag Savannah in September.

01:04:41.440 --> 01:04:46.960
We're going to Savannah, Georgia, the last weekend of September, which is sorry, I have to look at my calendar on the wall.

01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:49.519
September 27th through the 29th.

01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:53.039
Um we are going to be three days.

01:04:53.199 --> 01:04:59.519
There's going to be a mix, a combination of organized formal events and organized informal events.

01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:08.559
So right now, the current itinerary looks like Friday night is going to be a little bit on your own, except for we're going to do a ghost tour because I love, well, woo, right?

01:05:08.800 --> 01:05:10.400
All kinds of all ties together.

01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:14.719
We're going to do a ghost tour of old Savannah, and that's kind of like if you want to join us, join us.

01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:18.079
Saturday is going to be a day full of organized programming.

01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:21.440
We are in the process of finalizing the details on a conference room.

01:05:21.519 --> 01:05:28.000
We're going to have breakfast and lunch served at the conference room with uh coffee breaks and snack breaks in between.

01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:36.960
We're going to have networking opportunities, breakout sessions, some presentations from a few people, I think, still talking about that, what that's going to look like, but that's going to be more formal.

01:05:37.280 --> 01:05:40.960
Saturday night, we're going to, again, this is whoever wants to join.

01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:46.719
We're going to do dinner on the river, the riverboat cruise tour, dinner on Saturday night.

01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:48.559
And then Sunday is still up in the air.

01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:55.360
I don't know if that's going to be an organized breakfast or if that's going to just sort of be like whoever wants to get together to follow up on their networking conversations from Saturday.

01:05:55.519 --> 01:05:58.239
But the reason why I said my dad is because I am not organizing any of it.

01:05:58.320 --> 01:05:59.679
I roped in my dad.

01:05:59.920 --> 01:06:01.440
My dad is semi-retired.

01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:06.559
He has been a lifelong salesperson and he had many years where he was in sales and construction.

01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:14.159
So when this looked like a thing that everybody was expecting like a big production for, I called my dad and I was like, Dad, I need you.

01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:16.320
Like, I gotta need your help.

01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:18.719
So my dad, I gotta give all credit to my dad.

01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:21.440
He has taken the laboring ore on organizing all of it.

01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:26.079
He's been interfacing with the hotel, been working out the contract details, doing all of that.

01:06:26.239 --> 01:06:27.519
So my dad gets credit.

01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:28.960
So he's gonna be coming too.

01:06:29.039 --> 01:06:33.599
So everybody will get to meet my dad since he's actually the real mastermind behind the planning.

01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:39.840
But we are gonna be capped at 25 people because it's the first time out and I didn't want to uh get in over my head.

01:06:40.159 --> 01:06:49.360
So we should be finalizing all of the contracts with the hotel in the next week or so, and then I'm gonna then tickets will go on sale and it will just be first come, first serve.

01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:51.440
And when 25 are sold, then that's it.

01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:55.119
And if it's popular, I'm open to keep making it an annual thing.

01:06:55.360 --> 01:06:55.840
Oh girl.

01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:56.400
Yeah.

01:06:56.559 --> 01:06:57.679
So and I don't know.

01:06:57.760 --> 01:06:59.599
I since you can edit this, I guess I'll just say this.

01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:04.000
I don't know if you want to talk about your involvement in it yet or not, but that's why I didn't say anything and I was vague.

01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:05.599
But if you want to talk about it, yeah, yeah, no.

01:07:06.159 --> 01:07:08.480
One thing I'll say is I'm gonna be there.

01:07:08.719 --> 01:07:09.679
Okay, yeah.

01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:15.119
And I hope people have learned this, and I hope you know this.

01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:23.199
Like, I'm all about supporting people, bringing new ideas into the world, like awesome people, and you are one of those people.

01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:26.719
Um, there's a lot of people that have ideas and talk smack.

01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:29.920
I'm just gonna say it, it may rub some people wrong.

01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:41.119
There's a lot of people that are happy to say, Yeah, you should do that, and you still don't know if them fools are gonna show up, even though they were the ones that were instigating it.

01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:41.920
Right.

01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:49.360
So I know what that feels like, and when I heard about it, I'm like, this woman don't play.

01:07:49.599 --> 01:07:57.440
I need to contribute, and you were gracious enough to allow me to contribute or invite me to contribute and invite me to come and hang out.

01:07:57.599 --> 01:08:00.079
So I'm excited for whatever the hell it's gonna be.

01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:03.840
I get the sense that it's gonna be freaking amazing, and it's not gonna be the last one.

01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:06.159
So that's what I got to say about that.

01:08:06.400 --> 01:08:06.960
Love it.

01:08:07.280 --> 01:08:09.760
Closing question, Miss Megan.

01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:13.440
What is the promise you are intended to be?

01:08:13.840 --> 01:08:16.000
Ooh, that is a good closing question.

01:08:16.239 --> 01:08:16.640
You know what?

01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:18.319
And I'm just gonna be really honest with you.

01:08:18.399 --> 01:08:19.680
I've heard you talk a lot about this.

01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:23.039
I've heard it as your sort of tagline catchphrase.

01:08:23.279 --> 01:08:26.479
I don't necessarily know if I really understand what it means.

01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:28.560
So I'm gonna put it back in your court.

01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:29.520
What's yours?

01:08:29.680 --> 01:08:33.199
Give me an example, and then that'll help me understand what mine is.

01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:34.079
I love it.

01:08:34.159 --> 01:08:35.600
So a little bit of context.

01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:37.199
It's the title of my book, right?

01:08:37.359 --> 01:08:39.439
Becoming the promise you're intended to be.

01:08:39.760 --> 01:08:44.640
It comes from one of my counselors when I was in rehab, inpatient rehab.

01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:51.039
He pointed out to me, he says, Jess, you're pretty good at admitting that you have a problem, that you're an alcoholic, that you're an addict, et cetera.

01:08:51.199 --> 01:08:53.039
He says, But you haven't accepted.

01:08:53.359 --> 01:08:58.319
And I say, What freaking lawyer games are we playing here, splitting hairs on words?

01:08:58.479 --> 01:09:07.920
And he said, No, what you haven't accepted is that if you continue to live life the way you're living it, you will never become the promise you are intended to be.

01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:29.600
And so in that moment, I still can't like articulate it worth a damn, but in that moment, I knew all of those times that I felt like I could be more, I could contribute more, that I suppressed because that's impractical, that was the promise that I could see.

01:09:29.920 --> 01:09:39.439
All of those times that I felt conviction for making selfish, short-sighted decisions, that was me missing the mark.

01:09:39.600 --> 01:09:49.199
And so, fast forward to now, for me, becoming the promise I'm intended to be is a matter of me sharing my gifts and talents and service to others.

01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:51.840
How can I contribute to others' path?

01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:59.199
How can I help them, guide them, support them, cheer them on in their path to self-discovery?

01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:02.960
That's my that's the promise I am intended to be.

01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:04.000
How does that help?

01:10:04.239 --> 01:10:04.880
That does help.

01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:05.199
Yeah.

01:10:05.279 --> 01:10:16.000
So I guess I would say similar to you, but I'm a little bit more specific about it in the sense that I really genuinely believe in the power of proactive risk management.

01:10:16.159 --> 01:10:24.560
And so I really just want to get the message out to construction leaders of all shapes and sizes.

01:10:25.279 --> 01:10:39.680
There is so like I literally they don't understand how much they're losing in money because like you can truly, truly increase your profits, you can increase your bottom line by being strategic about your risk management.

01:10:40.479 --> 01:10:43.199
There are ways that you can track your ROI on this.

01:10:43.279 --> 01:10:46.800
Like they're like there, you I can level, I can help them level up.

01:10:46.960 --> 01:10:50.880
I want to help them level up in this very targeted and specific way.

01:10:51.119 --> 01:10:53.600
That's I guess what the promise that I'm intended to be.

01:10:53.920 --> 01:11:00.159
I understand like the money thing is a good thing to anchor on because it's measurable, it's easily measured.

01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:00.880
Yeah.

01:11:01.199 --> 01:11:18.399
But you and I both know that by investing in your services or maybe not even your services, but in a proactive risk mitigation situation strategy, your quality of life is gonna be profoundly better.

01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:19.840
Am I wrong?

01:11:20.079 --> 01:11:20.800
No, not at all.

01:11:20.960 --> 01:11:35.199
And again, I I talked about this earlier, but with the live stream that I just did with one of my clients, one of the biggest hurdles and the hardest impacts that they felt from that catastrophic lawsuit that they were facing was the emotional toll that it took on them.

01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:41.439
And I think that a lot of times leaders who haven't yet experienced it, and I do mean yet, because it is inevitable.

01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:46.319
I mean, if you're in construction for any length of time beyond a blink of an eye, you're gonna get there.

01:11:46.399 --> 01:11:47.439
It's gonna happen.

01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:52.000
And I think people don't really fully appreciate the emotional toll that it takes.

01:11:52.239 --> 01:12:18.720
Literally, sleepless nights, emails to me that were sent in at 2:30 in the morning because they can't fall asleep because they're replaying it over and over and over in their head, like losing sleep, worrying about the people that they're employing and their families and the domino effect of like if they can't figure a way out of this, they have now lost their entire workforce, and their workforce is out of work, their family doesn't now now have that paycheck.

01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:22.800
And that weighs heavy on a leader, heavy on a leader.

01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:25.279
And I think that's exactly it.

01:12:25.439 --> 01:12:28.479
People don't they don't really appreciate the toll that it takes.

01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:31.199
And so if you can prevent that, why wouldn't you?

01:12:32.159 --> 01:12:33.520
Amen, sister.

01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:34.560
Did you have fun?

01:12:34.720 --> 01:12:37.520
I had a blast, I always have a blast talking to you, Jesse.

01:12:39.039 --> 01:12:41.119
Same tons of energy.

01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:44.720
I think we're gonna melt the internet when this thing goes live.

01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:53.920
Dang, you stuck around all the way to the end, and I hope the reason you stuck it like all the way through was because you were getting a lot of value out of the conversation.

01:12:54.079 --> 01:13:04.640
I always give at least one, most of the time, a handful of good nuggets, good ideas, good perspectives that I can take and apply into my life going forward.

01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:05.680
That's the whole point.

01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:10.960
I want to share that with you guys and also highlight the amazing people that they are.

01:13:11.119 --> 01:13:23.439
And I want to end this by saying if you feel like you've been living out a script that was written for somebody else, and you feel like you're in the wrong skin, I know that life.

01:13:23.600 --> 01:13:27.520
And all I did was numb myself to make it through to another day.

01:13:27.680 --> 01:13:30.960
Which, if you're there, you know how hopeless that feels.

01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:36.079
I want to recommend that you check out Becoming the Promise You Are Intended to Be.

01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:40.159
The stories in this book will help you know that you're not alone.

01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:47.359
They're my personal stories, like the real stuff that I went through, and I'm sharing them because it helps keep me sober.

01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:51.760
It helps me contribute my gifts and my talents in service to others.

01:13:51.920 --> 01:13:59.520
It helps me turn my failures, my shame, my embarrassment into something useful and positive.

01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:00.880
So check it out.

01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:06.079
Be kind to yourself, be cool, and we'll talk at you next time.

01:14:06.399 --> 01:14:06.960
Peace.

01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:10.319
Thank you for sticking it out all the way to the end.

01:14:10.399 --> 01:14:12.640
I know you got a whole lot of stuff going on.

01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:23.199
And in appreciation for the gift of time that you have given this episode, I want to offer you a free PDF of my book, Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be.

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The link for that bad boy is down in the show notes.

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Hit it.

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You don't even have to give me your email address.

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There's a link in there.

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You just click that and you can download the PDF.

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And if you share it with somebody that you know who might feel stuck or be caught up in self-destructive behaviors, that would be the ultimate.

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You sharing that increases the likelihood that it's going to help one more person.

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And if it does help one more person, then you're contributing to me becoming the promise I am intended to be.

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Be kind to yourself, be cool, and we'll talk at you next time.