Aug. 28, 2025
The Blueprint for Better Leadership: Kabri Lehrman-Schmidt
In this insightful episode of the Learnings and Missteps podcast, host Jesse interviews Kabri Luhrman Schmidt, a nationally recognized construction influencer and project superintendent at Hensel Phelps. Kabri shares her 18-year journey in the construction industry, focusing on complex projects and redefining leadership. The conversation delves into her approach to jobsite leadership, emphasizing the importance of creating environments where workers feel valued and empowered to contribute. Kabri discusses the concept of psychological safety, the role of effective communication, and the impact of building trust within teams. She also touches on the challenges and rewards of being a change agent in a traditionally rigid industry. Throughout the episode, Kabri's authentic passion for people and process improvement shines through, making this a must-listen for anyone in the construction field.
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
02:32 Diving into Job Site Leadership
04:11 Personal Experiences and Leadership Style
06:59 Challenges and Consensus Building
10:55 Impact of Leadership on Job Sites
11:07 Listener Shoutout and Feedback
12:45 Early Career Lessons and Mentorship
14:27 The Importance of Listening and Learning
21:12 Creating a Learning Environment on Job Sites
27:31 The Value of Human-Centric Leadership
30:12 The Impact of Long-Term Industry Experience
30:41 Championing Mental Health and Wellbeing in Construction
32:00 Building Relationships and Overcoming Friction
32:53 The Power of Small Actions in Creating Change
34:09 Navigating Leadership and Performance Evaluations
47:06 The Importance of Psychological Safety
52:58 Authentic Leadership and Industry Recognition
57:41 Final Thoughts and Connecting with the Audience
Design the Life You have Always Wanted: https://www.depthbuilder.com/do-the-damn-thing
Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books
00:00 - Introducing KB Lerman Schmidt
02:37 - Defining Jobsite Leadership
07:43 - Why Choose to Be a Superintendent
11:48 - The Value of Field Intelligence
19:11 - Creating Trust Takes Time
33:48 - Psychological Safety in Construction
46:28 - Fearlessly Authentic Leadership
01:00:16 - The Promise KB Intends to Be
WEBVTT
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figure it out, get over yourself, treat people like humans and you'll have a better time at work.
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What is going on?
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L&m family?
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Back at it again, and this time I got like an ultra, ultra high status construction celebrity on here, ms Cabry Lerman Schmidt.
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She is a national construction influencer, but not just an influencer because she posts cool stuff, but she is actually a project superintendent for Hansel Phelps and she seems to have fun spending her time on like ultra, super complex aviation projects.
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If you've ever done any work on an airport, if you've ever been to an airport, you know we're difficult.
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She's managing work massive, massive volumes of work on these projects with massive numbers of people.
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She's been in the field for 18 years and she's built a career by redefining what leadership looks like and that's my honest observation the way she rolls.
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I've actually shared the stage with her maybe a couple times.
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Now I know one time for sure.
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She's the real deal and we're going to kind of dive into some of the goodness that she does.
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But first, if this is your first time here, this is the Learnings and Missteps podcast, where you get to see amazing human beings just like you sharing their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it.
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I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we about to get to know Miss KB Lerman Schmidt.
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KB.
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How are you doing?
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Oh, I'm so excited to be here.
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Your energy just makes me like glow and tingle.
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This passion for this industry and the people around us.
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Let's do this.
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Oh, I think, tingly, sparkly, that's exactly how I feel.
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I mean, you and I we've been working to make this happen and we're finally here.
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And this time I feel like I have an advantage, because the last time we were on stage together was the webinar with NCCER, and you went first, or rather you went before me.
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I'm like, oh my God, this is going to be difficult because you're a baller, and so this time I have the upper hand because I get to ask all the questions.
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And I have no idea what you're going to ask.
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So let's do this I know, so we'll start with a super easy one what does job site leadership look like?
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Oh man, I love that.
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So I am.
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You mentioned, I'm a superintendent.
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I work for a large general contractor, always have so large commercial, large aviation projects.
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I take the role of leadership really seriously.
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I'm in the privileged position to be responsible for the entire job site.
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Right, we set the tone.
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We are the role models.
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What my team does is set the standard for how people are taken care of, what the expectations are for behavior, how we can facilitate the use of resources on a job site.
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We are bringing language to every interaction.
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That sets all of those tones.
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We are saying this is how we expect people to talk to one another.
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How can we support you?
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And you said you're selfless servant earlier.
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That is how I see job site leadership.
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We are clearing out the barriers.
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We are setting the plan.
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That is only as good as the information people are giving to us, and so, gosh.
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We better create an environment where people are interested and empowered to give honest information and it's information that makes them feel successful and that they're contributing in a meaningful way.
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And that's a big ask, because you have to create a place where people want to be.
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You have to create a place where people feel like they can utilize the skills that make them so proud of the work that they're doing, because that's what drives our industry.
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Yes, oh, my goodness.
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Now would I be wrong in saying well, of course this is your mindset, because every construction leader you've ever worked with has that same mindset you've ever worked with has that same mindset.
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No, no, that has not always been my experience.
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I don't remember how you worded that, but I get what you're getting at.
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I haven't always experienced that.
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It was something that I think I came to, born out of a few different personal and external experiences.
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I'll be honest, some of them were driven by negative personal experiences, some out of the anxiety and the experience of being a five foot half inch superintendent in the industry.
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I was very driven by getting a lot of consensus built around my plans because I didn't want it shot to hell when I brought it up.
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I wanted people to believe in the plan and to know that I took into account their perspective and I wanted them to understand my schedule and their place in it, and so I spent more time than my peers making sure that I had people's feedback and that my plan reflected that, and so this idea of consensus building and perspective taking became part of how I lead a project.
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I was criticized for that.
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At times.
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I was told don't pay attention to the drama of your cruise, but in reality, my night cruise driving the critical path right next to the passengers at the airport were the most successful, so some of it came out of learning how to navigate my surroundings from my perspective, but some of it came from seeing how the best leaders around me were able to create a language that other people bought into, or were able to adapt their language to communicate in a way that people understood and were able to say, ah, I know what's going on here, and to communicate to their audience well.
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Yeah, yeah, they got to be able to put their hands on the handle.
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And languages we're not talking like Spanish, english, right we're talking, or French English, it doesn't matter, we're talking about English, english and the language that we speak and that was part of my presentation.
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Right At the different levels of the organization create holes for people to misunderstand and that leads to other things.
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But you've had the opportunity of being around amazing leaders and I think what I heard was your style.
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Your approach was informed by both really painful negative experiences and some actual inspirational, transformational type leaders that you said OK, I don't want to do this, I want to do this, let me go this direction Now.
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You said five foot half inch superintendent.
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You said five foot half inch superintendent.
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Why in the world did you like?
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You and I are in the construction industry and there's a litany of career pathways.
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What was it about the superintendent role that you said like you're killing it?
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You are setting a standard that I think every damn superintendent, aspiring superintendent, needs to follow.
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But why in the world would you pick it?
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Because it is not like it was.
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It's probably the next to the foreman, a trade foreman.
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It's the least glamorous job on the job site.
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Oh, I just love, love, talking to the smartest people out on the job site.
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I mean to be able to.
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My favorite thing is being able to hear pieces of information and bring the people who understand it together, to understand one another and to make a plan, and I saw that that was not always easy for people to do.
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To get people to talk to one another, first of all, and two, to be able to synthesize a plan out of all of the problems and all of the pieces of solutions that were out there.
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And being able to talk to people is fine for me.
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I never had a problem with it.
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But being able to jump in and see those pieces and how they could come together and then convince other people to listen to one another, that that's my, that's my jam and I get to do that right now.
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I'm I'm all fancy because I'm in pre-construction and I get to do that with the owner and the design team and that's that's kind of the special role I've built for myself is I started in pre-con and I roll over to the superintendent.
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I've done that on a number of projects now, which is pretty cool because I get to understand and I get to tell all of my crews why they're doing what they're doing.
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But the reason I love being a superintendent is because I get to be out there solving the problems.
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I get to be able to look at it and touch it and really understand what the challenge is for the people who are doing the work.
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And then I get to hear their stories and the stories are the best you know.
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Just the passion and the intelligence is I could go listen to.
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I'm married to an engineer.
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I get to listen to that kind of smart people all the time, but it's nothing compared to our skilled trades people and the amount of just precise knowledge.
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I take it as a point of pride to be able to be that connected to our people out in the field.
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Yeah, and I love that because, yes, right, especially plumbers.
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Can you guess what trade?
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I was?
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Ultra philosophical and intellectual.
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They're not all as handsome as me, but they're still pretty philosophical.
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Now, I'm not goofing here, but for real.
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For real, there are some super damn intelligent folks out there in the field.
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But and I'm just going to lead to a question, but I know me coming up as an apprentice, journeyman, et cetera, I never was made to feel like that.
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And when I and sure, there's a little tone of victimhood there.
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But I would have an idea and present it to the superintendent or the project manager on the job site or we'd have a real situation, a real problem.
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And what I got back was stop making your damn excuses, just go put your pipe in.
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And I'm like man, I'm trying to.
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There's a problem coming, like I see what you're doing, step one and step two, but step five and six is going to be a disaster If we go down this route.
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I don't want to hear your complaints, just do what you're told.
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I'll talk to your office.
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Just do what you're told, I'll talk to your office.
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And so when did you discover like these people really have tremendous intellect and value to achieving the ultimate goal.
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What was it that helped you see that?
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Because, again, it's ultra rare KB.
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If you don't know it, it is ultra rare out there in the industry, I would say even within your organization.
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I've been on a lot of y'all's projects.
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Let's do the L&M family member shout out.
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And this one goes to Daryl De La Fosse.
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He's attended what is now known as the Self-First Time Mastery Workshop and Daryl sent this, he says, awareness of getting work habit planning into my personal life, the value of breaking down large personal activities that are dancing in my head into detailed to-do list tasks on a calendar to commit to, was invaluable.
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No-transcript Everywhere I've been there are some hotspots of amazing people, but they are the exception.
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And so what was it that helped you recognize that, and not only recognize it, but leverage it as one of your superpowers?
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Oh man, you're going to make me cry because I've never thought about this memory in this kind of way before.
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In fact, I was talking to one of my managers my operations managers of my region like three days ago about this because we have this one person in common now retired.
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Like three days ago about this, because we have this one person in common now retired the person who hired me when I was an intern working at the Pentagon renovation project.
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I was working for the owner's rep.
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Yeah Killer, first experience for the construction world, because I don't have a history.
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My family has not worked in construction.
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I was an engineering student, okay, Okay, and.
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I.
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I lucked into a fantastic internship and I saw one of the most successful federal design build projects happening and it was my company, hensel Phelps, working at the Pentagon renovating wedges two through five, and I saw the immense collaboration.
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I saw interns talking about rats the size of cats running under interstitial slabs because there's a river under that building.
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Anyway, it was amazing.
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And I walked up to the largest superintendent I could find and I said I want to be an intern with you next summer and he said who the hell are you?
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And I said well, I'm an intern with the owner's rep over here.
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He said well, put your resume and your transcript on my desk by the end of the day.
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And we ended up in a conversation and I went to a pretty good school and he said kids that come from your school don't make it.
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He said you don't have a history of construction in your family and he said I'll be honest with you.
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Because you don't respect the craft, it's because you don't understand what it takes takes, it's because you're not willing to listen, it's because you think you know more.
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And I took it more as a challenge.
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I didn't take it offensively, I didn't know anything at the time and I had no stigma to be like.
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Of course I'm gonna ask questions.
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Why would I think I know more?
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Like I don't know?
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I never felt like I had that bravado.
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It set the basis in the way that you just posed it was.
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I was told at the very first day that that was my job was to listen, learn, respect and serve our craft and trade partners.
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And yeah, it was done in a demeaning way.
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And yeah, now I've been here 18 years and things are great.
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But the person who hired me told me that that was my first and utmost responsibility and from then on I just loved listening to the stories and hearing the whole process.
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But thank you for putting that in a more positive light for me.
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My mental health I don't know.
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I think one thing that our L&M family out there can take from this is sometimes the most profound and impactful direction.
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Coaching and advice we get comes in a sour flavor, and that's okay.
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I think of Ed Mauricio.
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He was a pipe fitter and I was a.
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I was his apprentice for like two and a half years.
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When I found out later that it was kind of a miracle because people quit on him and they kind of wanted me to quit and I did it like he was was hard.
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But one of the things he told me, like, jesse, all I want from you is one thing I just need you to be smarter than the pipe.
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And I'm like and so whenever I was doing dumb stuff, jess, that pipe smarter than you right now, ah right.
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When I would get stuck on small things, Jess, that pipe smarter than you, Ah it.
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So it was.
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It didn't feel good, but it stuck and it was impactful.
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It helped me think about it, Think take multiple options.
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There's more than just one way to skin a cat.
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Get some input, ask for feedback, ask for help.
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Like small things wrapped up in that you're dumber than the pipe, Jess.
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Yeah, it's a good on you for for taking that as a a challenge, right, Cause in my head when you're explaining I was like, oh yeah, I would have been like, oh yeah, well, let me show you ding dong, but also as, okay, that's what I need to do.
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Because, yes, here in San Antonio we did a reflection.
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It was funny Cause the company I used to work for I was on the project, like I was hidden right Because I wasn't installing anymore and I would support my teams.
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But the deal that I had with the project teams was like I'm going to come out there and help, but you can't tell the GC I'm going to be there and you can't tell them who I am If they ask you.
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I'm just a day laborer because I was responsible for assigning manpower to all of our projects and so if they knew they had me on their job, they were going to come and tackle me and make and you know, you know what you would do.
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So that was the deal with my team Don't tell them.
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Anyways, it was a successful project, high profile project, but our experience of their lean program was not amazing and I got to see it like, oh, this is wonky.
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Anyways, I then went to the dark side, I quit that company and went to work for the general contractor and I'm hearing them talk about this project and how awesome the lean program was.
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I'm like what world are you guys from?
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And they're like what do you mean?
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I was like bro, I was out there, it was, it sucked Like.
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The job was good, decent, I'll say, but that lean stuff that y'all were doing, it was a.
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It was horrible for us as the trade contractors.
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So, anyways, I said here's what I suggest, Cause they were very open-minded.
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That project team was like well, man, if it wasn't that good, we need to know how can we make it better.
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Because it was good for them, it wasn't good for everybody.
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So we brought the framers, the MEP and the framing contractor.
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We said we're going to have a feedback session with you guys and we really want to know what did we do well, what do we need to improve on?
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So on and so forth.
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And we got some good information.
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But the one thing that stood out the most is this is tied to what your that first superintendent fed you.
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One of the guys said it's the, it's the young.
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He didn't use this language, but he said it's the younglings.
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He said the biggest problem that we have out here is you have these kids that are pretending like they know everything.
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They don't listen, they don't ask questions and we know they don't know.
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So what we do is comply maliciously.
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We say, okay, you want to do something stupid and you're not going to listen to us, we're going to do it.
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And so it was.
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That was the biggest rub about all the things.
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And so and I was like, okay, well, how do we handle that?
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And again one of the trade leaders was like man, all they got to do is ask us.
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We're trying to, we want to teach them, we want to help them, but for whatever reason, these and I'll say zero to three years out of university right, that was generally the situation they are not asking questions and they are not listening.
00:19:32.402 --> 00:19:36.192
All they need to do is we will teach them, we will share, we will be open.
00:19:36.192 --> 00:19:44.223
But when they come at us like they know what the hell they're doing, they don't listen, they don't understand the work, they don't appreciate the work, and we know it.
00:19:44.223 --> 00:19:46.446
It's a bad situation.
00:19:46.446 --> 00:19:48.249
So it's not just you.
00:19:48.249 --> 00:20:07.643
I think it's a natural thing and I really feel and this is me, I have no idea, it's just a big assumption, maybe pretending overcompensating for what they don't know?
00:20:07.663 --> 00:20:09.949
is them overcompensating for their insecurities, and all they got to do is say I don't know.
00:20:09.949 --> 00:20:11.633
Can you teach me, Can you show me?
00:20:11.633 --> 00:20:12.942
Can you explain this to me?
00:20:12.942 --> 00:20:15.647
I mean, so maybe that's the how.
00:20:15.647 --> 00:20:19.020
How do the trades respond to you?
00:20:19.020 --> 00:20:29.567
Or maybe, if we do like a percentage wise, when you, early in your career, when you asked them about their work, what was the percentage that said grab a chair.
00:20:29.567 --> 00:20:31.190
Let me tell you versus.
00:20:31.190 --> 00:20:34.261
I don't have time for you, get out of my face.
00:20:35.505 --> 00:20:39.353
The only person that ever said get out of my face was with my own company.
00:20:39.353 --> 00:20:43.944
Seriously, I never encountered that.
00:20:43.944 --> 00:20:49.564
It was always like, oh, I need to get back to work, can you get back to work?
00:20:49.564 --> 00:20:56.301
I don't want to ask you to get back to work because I want you to answer my question in the future, but I'm pretty sure we're both going to get in trouble if we don't get back to work.
00:20:56.301 --> 00:21:02.053
I was always met with more than I asked for in information.
00:21:02.053 --> 00:21:08.221
It was asked for in information.
00:21:08.221 --> 00:21:08.722
It was, I mean, so helpful.
00:21:08.742 --> 00:21:36.502
But to your point about the youngins and how your trade partners gave you that feedback, when the onus is on job site leadership and it's not just to teach the younger employees about what they can or should do in order to learn because the pressure they're feeling is also from their own team about how they need to perform and what they're trying to prove and what they're being asked to do that might be beyond their skill set or where they do and don't know they have autonomy or not what performance looks like.
00:21:36.502 --> 00:21:43.307
But it's also like telling our trade partners I tell straight up on this project, I want you to bring apprentices.
00:21:43.307 --> 00:22:00.942
I want this to be a project where you want to bring them to learn, and I end up with more women, I end up with more underutilized zip codes, just people who are like, oh, this superintendent's okay with us training people here.
00:22:00.942 --> 00:22:04.851
Please let's make that a place where this is of value.
00:22:04.851 --> 00:22:09.690
And I expect you to answer the questions of my brand new field engineers, because they're brand new.
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:16.067
Yeah, yeah, oh, my God, okay, you just opened up a can of worms.
00:22:16.067 --> 00:22:20.259
So there's two things that are kicking around in my head.
00:22:20.259 --> 00:22:26.096
One is friction from your peers, the other is KPIs.
00:22:26.096 --> 00:22:44.211
So I'm going to code down the KPI idea and then we'll circle back to friction from your peers, because I think it'll be valuable for folks that are early in their career in any industry, because one, you're living proof that if you stay the path, you can have amazing impact and influence.
00:22:44.211 --> 00:22:47.580
And also, like the practical, how do you deal with it and overcome it?
00:22:47.580 --> 00:23:10.133
But here's what's ringing in my head and it's something that just I'm jealous because, like you know, I get to meet amazing leaders now, more amazing leaders now, and, like son of a gun, like for real KB, if this consulting thing don't work out and my feet picture only fan page don't work out, I'm going to come be a laborer on your project.
00:23:10.133 --> 00:23:13.809
I would love to just work and experience the leadership you're talking about.
00:23:14.069 --> 00:23:15.232
Now back to KPIs.
00:23:15.232 --> 00:23:23.238
I understand schedule, budget, safety, quality, right, that's kindergarten, if you ask me, those are kindergarten metrics.
00:23:23.238 --> 00:23:27.119
You're going to have them whether you want to or not, right?
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:37.737
It's just going to tell you where you're on target or not, but what I heard you say is bring your apprentices and they're saying, hey, this is a place where we can learn and develop people.
00:23:37.737 --> 00:23:50.498
So the KPI that I'm curious about is do you have a sense of how many careers you have impacted with the approach that you have taken?
00:23:50.498 --> 00:24:05.567
And I'm not just talking about direct employees, and direct reports are a learning environment to develop the skills of the men and women in our workforce.
00:24:05.567 --> 00:24:08.656
Am I overreaching here.
00:24:09.411 --> 00:24:10.636
I mean, that's what I hope for.
00:24:10.636 --> 00:24:30.306
But I know that the leadership of those trade partners I know the people on those crews have given me feedback in ways that their experience on my projects has been unlike on others, that it's given them an insight to what the industry could be.
00:24:30.306 --> 00:24:36.589
It's given them insight into how they could run their crews, like permission to how they could run their crews in other spaces.
00:24:36.589 --> 00:24:49.682
The kpis any kind of measurement metrics is people who are coming to your job site once Like the waterproofer for three days, the third party inspector who's subbing in for somebody else.
00:24:49.682 --> 00:24:52.517
It is well what's going on here.
00:24:53.398 --> 00:24:54.059
This is weird.
00:24:54.080 --> 00:24:57.277
Something different and you're like what do you mean?
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