Dec. 11, 2025

No More Mediocre Leadership: Wally Adamchick’s Blueprint for Better Teams

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Season 3

n this episode, Jesse discusses the critical role of servant leadership in the construction industry with Wally Adamchick. They explore how a servant leadership mindset, which includes being respectful, setting expectations, and supporting employees, can lead to higher employee retention and profitability. Wally also talks about the importance of developing frontline leaders and the distinction between coaching, consulting, and training. The conversation touches on the specific challenges faced by subcontractors, the growing emphasis on mental health, and the new movement in the dirt world spearheaded by leaders like Aaron Witt. Throughout the episode, they emphasize the importance of contributing to others' growth and the personal fulfillment derived from it.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview

02:51 The Importance of Servant Leadership

05:16 Challenges and Misconceptions in Leadership

12:26 The Role of Coaching and Consulting

18:06 Expertise and Practical Experience

23:25 Focusing on Construction Leadership

35:37 Impact of Training on Operating Income and Quality of Life

36:14 Balancing Quality of Life and Profitability in Construction

37:28 Creating a Frontline Leadership Program

38:35 The Success Triangle: Technical Competence, Management, and Leadership

40:15 Challenges and Rewards of Leadership Development

42:55 The Importance of Contribution and Service

44:53 The Role of Culture in Employee Retention and Satisfaction

52:59 The Growing Movement in the Dirt World

57:58 People in Construction Report: Insights and Data

01:02:32 Closing Thoughts and Final Message



Set the stage for an amazing new year with the Self First Framework.

https://calendly.com/jesse04/self-first-webinar

Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books

00:00 - Setting The Stage: Service And Results

02:45 - Servant Leadership Without Being Soft

06:00 - Culture Change: No One-Day Fix

10:45 - Coaching vs Consulting vs Training

15:30 - Staying Close To The Field

20:40 - Expertise: Seeing Options In Action

26:30 - Why Construction And Finding Your Niche

31:20 - Behavior Change, Tough Love, And ROI

36:10 - Frontline Leader Training That Pays

41:30 - Profit, Retention, And Quality Of Life

47:10 - Growth Mindset Over Scarcity

53:28 - Dirt World’s Movement And Talent War

58:58 - People In Construction Report Insights

01:03:08 - Capacity, Boundaries, And Sustainable Work

01:07:18 - The Promise: Put Goodness Into The World

WEBVTT

00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.959
Somebody says that's just the way I am, that's crap.

00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:09.599
What is going on, LM family?

00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:11.359
I got another one here.

00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:13.439
Somebody that I've been following.

00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:23.359
Actually, when I started following him, I thought he was like a theater major because there were different personalities of him showing up on the LinkedIn.

00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:26.079
And of course, all valuable stuff.

00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:28.079
And so I got further into Mr.

00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:28.559
Wally.

00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:40.479
And just so y'all know, he his gig, the work that he does, or maybe more appropriately, the contribution he's making to our industry and this world is transforming leaders.

00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:47.439
He helps companies retain talent, which we're going to dig into today, and also like deliver profits.

00:00:47.679 --> 00:00:55.439
So if anybody knows anything about profits or cares about profits, this isn't just touchy feely, let's train everybody and get along.

00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:57.600
It's always about business results.

00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:02.079
He's a speaker, he's a coach, he's a consultant, and a whole lot more.

00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.239
We're going to get to learn all about that, Mr.

00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:05.760
Wally Adam Chick.

00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:25.599
And before that, and if this is your first time here, you're listening to the Learnings and Missteps podcasts, where amazing human beings just like you tell us about how they share their gifts and talents to leave this world better than they found it.

00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:30.079
I am Jesse, your selfish servant, and we're about to get to know Mr.

00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:30.560
Wally.

00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:30.959
Mr.

00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:33.120
Wally, how are you doing, sir?

00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:34.640
Well, I'm good.

00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:41.840
I don't know if I'm as selfish as you are, but uh you know, we're we're here for the same reason is that uh well, we want to help people out.

00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:43.920
So yeah, it's all about me to help you.

00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:44.959
That's it, man.

00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:45.519
That's it.

00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:49.120
I it's uh you know, I get accused of being so altruistic.

00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:50.799
Like, man, Jess, you just give so much.

00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:59.439
I'm like, yeah, but it's not like I just give, I give because it's what keeps me alive, it's what keeps me sober, it's what keeps me sane.

00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:02.239
Provided I'm contributing, things are great.

00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:05.280
When I'm just on the take, things are not great.

00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:07.680
I am not healthy, and that's just a waste.

00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:11.759
And I mean, I know because I've lived it for way too long.

00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:33.199
Well, there's a deep message there about service and servant mentality, not you know, not rolling over and all of those things, but when we look at the neuroscience of this, when we're giving, and not stupid, you know, I'm selling all my how worldly possessions, but I have something I can give.

00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:39.599
I got a little bit of knowledge, and you know, maybe I deliver it in a way similar to you with Dept Builder.

00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:42.080
You know, maybe we deliver it in a way where people hear it.

00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:51.120
There's a lot of noise out there, but uh hopefully we're delivering something that's got some value for folks, and you know, yeah, that's why I wake up in the morning.

00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:52.240
Yes, sir.

00:02:52.560 --> 00:03:10.080
Okay, so you said serving mentality, and I think it I think we need to go a little deeper there because you know, I worked for a company, I worked for TD industries for over 17 years, and the culture now they had like an intentional culture this back in the early 2000s, right?

00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:29.120
Before everybody was talking about culture, I'm sure you've they they like started it in construction almost, and so now their culture was one of servant leadership, and I struggled early because I thought it meant like be nice and you know, just be a sweetheart, a big fluffy pillow.

00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:43.680
And it took me a little while to like, wait a minute, it's not just be nice, it's really be respectful, it's not just be pleasant and accommodating, it's set expectations and support people to get there.

00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:47.039
And if they can't get there, then there's other measures to be taken.

00:03:47.280 --> 00:04:05.280
So, in your work, when you think of this servant mentality, how often do you see people maybe overshoot into the soft tolerating mediocrity side, uh maybe confusing what service actually means?

00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.000
Yeah, you know, it's probably a bell curve, right?

00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:12.800
Where that's you know the standard distribution and however what whatever chunk you want to take of it.

00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:19.279
But I'd say easily 10 to 15 percent of the folks, the minute they hear it, uh, they hear nice.

00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:19.759
Yep.

00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:24.000
Uh, and then there's another 10 to 15 that hear like get run over.

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You know, and somewhere in the middle is the goodness.

00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:30.240
And and look, there's nothing wrong with being nice.

00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:34.959
There's nothing wrong with holding the door open for somebody when you see them at the mini mart.

00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:35.839
Yes.

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And we should do those things at work too.

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But this is how do I help you grow?

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Now do I help you get through the door?

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And that's where tough love may come in, too, by the way.

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Um, with accountability.

00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:50.959
Hey, dude, we've had this conversation three times.

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You're gonna have to go home today and think about this, you know.

00:04:54.639 --> 00:05:00.720
And so, yeah, when we hear servant, it could go back to some youth, some baggage, some mama's house issues, etc.

00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:07.439
But you know, what we're really talking about is an intentional collaboration to help you get better.

00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:10.079
One of my favorite quotes is the answer is yes.

00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:11.519
Now, what was the question?

00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:12.079
Right.

00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:15.680
So, yeah, let's figure out how we can do this.

00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:16.399
Yeah.

00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:19.040
Now, okay, so you mentioned tough love.

00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:31.120
Have you seen a change in the response or the willingness to receive tough love over your time in the work that you've done and the different roles that you serve because you've done a lot.

00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:39.040
You know, I want to say yes, but let me back up a little bit and you know, talk about what I, you know, the construction industry as I see it.

00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:43.920
Now, I think this is no science to this whatsoever, but you'll get it, and you're the listeners will get it.

00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:53.680
I would say, you know, two-thirds of the companies across this construction universe never want guys like you and me to show up because they're doing fine.

00:05:53.839 --> 00:06:03.759
Yes, you know, they're making money, they're keeping the lights on, and they're in the insanity or the ignorance, and it's fine.

00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:20.959
There's the TDs and folks like that who, you know, so what if I go with my two-thirds to three-quarters, you know, 20 to 30 percent of the industry is either exemplary, like they set the standard and they want to stay there, or they're aspirational and they want to get there.

00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:24.079
You know, I dare say I don't think I've ever changed the culture.

00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:31.439
I've helped people maintain the culture because a consultant is not going to come in and change your world, we're gonna help you change the world.

00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:32.240
Yes.

00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:39.920
And I'm saying again, yes, you know, yeah, it's one of my it took me a while, but like that first year, I had no idea what the hell I was doing.

00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:42.240
I still kind of don't, but I'm getting better at it.

00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:54.000
Anyways, the folks that reached out that were expecting a cultural transformation from a one-day pep rally training session.

00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:56.319
I said, sure, let's do it.

00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:58.000
Hell yeah, so did I.

00:06:58.240 --> 00:06:59.519
And then guess what?

00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:00.959
Like it didn't happen.

00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:08.800
They were pissed off at me, they were disappointed, and so I had to change the way I was looking and responding to things like like what you want.

00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:13.040
I maybe it can be done with the one-day pep rally.

00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:18.800
I don't know how to do the thing that you want with the one-day pep rally.

00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:25.600
So here is what I'm recommending, and or maybe you just need to find somebody that knows how to do it.

00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:27.279
What do you think about that?

00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:29.279
Yeah, learning to say no, man.

00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:30.639
I said no to some stupid stuff.

00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.680
I mean, one of my favorites was time management on a Saturday.

00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:35.680
Like, yeah, yeah.

00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:37.360
So, hey, it's time management.

00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:39.920
Nobody wants that, nobody wants to be there on Saturday.

00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:50.240
And yeah, but look, anytime someone's starting a business, and whether you just bought a backhoe, you say yes to almost anything because of fear, no revenue, right?

00:07:50.480 --> 00:08:02.720
So fortunately, I've learned what to say yes to, and I've had clarity on what I don't do, and you still see this, you know, people broadly in our space, they do this and this and this and this.

00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:15.519
I'm like, you can't, you you can't do marketing and IT and you know culture, and but that's uh fire beware, I guess, and that's just part of the you know, the real world.

00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:17.680
Yeah, well, and actually, great point.

00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.959
You've been in your business for way longer than I have.

00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:38.639
Like, how long does it take, or did you start off kind of poking around to figure out, okay, this that don't really work, that's not really what I like, to get super clear about what to like be the primary message, or did you know that right out of the gate?

00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:41.600
No, I don't think I knew it right out of the gate.

00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.720
Uh, I again, yeah, teaching time management and customer service and all of those things.

00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:59.440
I mean, I'm good in front of an audience, and I certainly have experience in those things, and I've been trained in some of those things, depending on where I was in my life, but that wasn't my expertise.

00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:08.879
Um, you know, and I it took me a while to acknowledge my experience and my expertise and then dive into it.

00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:16.720
And, you know, there's a part of me, and I see my buddies in the speaking world do this, and they're out making, you know, 50 grand an hour for giving their keynote.

00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:18.799
And I'm like, God, wouldn't that be great?

00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:21.279
Yeah, it would be, but that's not really who I am.

00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:23.919
I mean, I get in there and hook and jab with you.

00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:25.679
I'm on a job site at 6 a.m.

00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:28.720
God help me, I hate that, but you know, we start early in this industry.

00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:29.679
I'm a night person.

00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:31.840
But right, to get out there and go, hey, how's it going?

00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:32.960
What's going on?

00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:38.799
And I've spent more time on job sites in the last year, probably than in the last couple of years, COVID, et cetera.

00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:42.720
Because I wanted to get back in touch with what's going on out there, right?

00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:48.399
You and I lecture and we coach, and look, it's based on a lot of good stuff.

00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:53.519
But get back out in the dirt, talk to the crews, talk to the leaders.

00:09:53.759 --> 00:10:05.440
And when they say, Hey, I saw your video, or I loved what you did last week, or you know, here's why it worked for me, it's like, ding, yeah, that stuff is still working because the environment is changing.

00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.679
And go back to this servant thing we started with earlier.

00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.159
We never said lower the standard, right?

00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:25.759
The standard is still the standard, it's just that 20-year-old 20-year-old who just showed up on your job site, he's not gonna put up with the trash that you put up with, so or she's not gonna put up with the trash you put up with, right?

00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:32.159
So getting staying in touch requires, in my mind, expertise.

00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:44.879
So, yeah, those keynoters are wonderful and they perform a role, and I kind of envy them for the money they make, but you know, when the wife comes up to you at the Christmas party and looks at you and says, Are you Wally?

00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:51.039
And you're like, Yeah, and she throws her arms around you and says, I don't know what you did to him, but he's different.

00:10:51.279 --> 00:11:08.559
Yes, yes, you know, that's amazing because there was a time when the wife came up to me at the Christmas party and said, You're the SOB that keeps my man away from my kids and me on the weekends and holidays.

00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:10.480
And I was like, I was that guy, right?

00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:13.600
When I was out running work, we we got a job to do.

00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:14.799
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:15.679
Oh, yeah.

00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:17.679
There's I got too many stories there.

00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:28.879
It's interesting because in my head, when I'm having those types of conversations, right, about family and self-care and these sort sorts of things.

00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:38.559
I believe it 100%, and I'm working like hell to practice it, to like to be a practitioner of it, not just a freaking mouth noiser about it.

00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:45.600
But I also know how I would naturally react if I was in their situation, it would be easy.

00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:50.720
We got work to do if we don't do the work, but it's a it's an unsustainable model.

00:11:50.799 --> 00:12:00.960
So comparing that to having you know a family member come up and say, Hey man, thank you, because whatever you're doing, it's changed our relationship entirely.

00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.799
That is the beautiful thing.

00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:11.919
So now, you know, you mentioned keynote speakers making 50k per engagement, which is I'm with you, like damn it, man, that's awesome.

00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:26.240
Now, you in your on your profile, you list the word coach and consultant, and you talked about how us as consultants can go into a business, but we're not going to transform and sustain your culture.

00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:32.559
Is there a difference between coaching and consulting and that sort of thing?

00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:33.679
Do you use it in it?

00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:37.519
How do you think about the coach consultant idea?

00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:41.519
Yeah, there's a lot of confusion out there, and what I'll tell you is my opinion, right?

00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:42.399
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:48.320
Um, to me, coaching is more one-on-one, helping you get better at something.

00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:52.080
Now, the problem with the word coach is we automatically take it to the sports world.

00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.240
Yeah, and you know, that's a little bit different.

00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:56.720
And I guess we could be doing group coaching as well.

00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:58.960
But to me, consulting is organizational.

00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:04.960
Like, okay, you want to create a program, you want to develop your leaders.

00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:10.879
Here's a way to do that, just you know, just the way any other consultant would.

00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.440
We have some level of expertise.

00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:18.320
You could have that expertise in the house, but it's expensive to have it there.

00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:21.360
You don't need it, you know, at 365.

00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:30.879
So yeah, you bring a consultant in, they they charge you a little bit more than you know what an hourly rate would be, but they have that and it's organizational.

00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.519
The coaching is more than one-on-one.

00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:39.279
And then, you know, is training a separate word, and it probably is, yes, right.

00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:46.720
And that's where we're standing in front of you know 10, 20 people, 25, and delivering content.

00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:51.919
Now, this is where and you started earlier to talking about profit and making money.

00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.960
It all has to make sense and it all has to have a return on investment.

00:13:55.120 --> 00:14:02.799
So so whether it's training, coaching, consulting, whatever, if it doesn't work, you should fire the person.

00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:06.720
Um and but that's an admission of something going wrong.

00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:13.679
But ultimately, when we're talking organizational change and individual change, it requires all of these things, probably, right?

00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:17.440
We have to have an organizational view of what do we want to accomplish.

00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:25.840
We have to give skills to the, you know, a population of, you know, say frontline leaders who are trying to learn leadership.

00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:35.360
And then there may or may not be some specific one-on-one coaching in there to say, hey, you know, you're the general superintendent, you're kind of the linchpin on this.

00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:37.039
Let's spend some time together.

00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:40.559
So it really is a design build approach.

00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:40.960
Yes.

00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:45.039
Uh, when we put something together, you have to understand context, right?

00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:54.720
National, local, regional, self-performed, not so like all of these things are relevant to get maximum ROI.

00:14:54.960 --> 00:15:04.080
And it's why when we go back to the conversation about expertise earlier, like we have to understand that that playing field, so to speak.

00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:08.480
It's like we don't bring high school solutions into division one, right?

00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:10.159
Plistic, they don't work.

00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.759
And it's why you would never hear you or me say cement mixer.

00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:15.039
They don't exist, right?

00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.720
It's a ready mix truck.

00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:23.600
But we've all seen that speaker come in and try to make that connection, and it's like, yeah, no.

00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:39.440
And ultimately, it's not that they're looking in uninformed, it's that it's disrespectful to the audience, yes, to these, to these trades people and builders who they just want life to be a little bit better, but don't want isn't that what we all want?

00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:44.080
We're gonna do the LM Family Member shout-out.

00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:49.279
This one goes out to long time supporter Miss Kirby Coates.

00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:55.120
She says, There are not enough words to share about the depth builder experience.

00:15:55.360 --> 00:16:02.720
Jesse built programs based on real people and real experiences to better people in real life.

00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:09.919
He has a true passion to help all people, and it shows through every program he has created, jump in and grow.

00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.279
So, Kirby, thank you.

00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:16.320
Super, super thank you for leaving that very thoughtful review on the Google.

00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:17.200
I'm fancy now.

00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:19.840
I got a Google page where I can get reviews.

00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.960
So y'all already know, folks, I love attention.

00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:33.279
And so anytime you go above and beyond to leave me a comment on the socials or leave a review, it gives me an excuse to celebrate you in the future.

00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:35.840
So please do so, even if they're stinky.

00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.559
I like the stinky ones too, they're super helpful.

00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:41.360
Yes, oh man.

00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:43.039
So amen.

00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:48.000
I love that you threw training in there because you know, when I'm talking to people, it's like, well, what do you do?

00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:49.679
I was like, Well, this is what I do.

00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:51.039
Like, well, what does that mean?

00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:52.799
I was like, okay, let me say it a different way.

00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:54.879
I consultant, coach, and trainer.

00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:56.639
And they're like, like all three.

00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.600
I'm like, it depends on the day, depends on the day, right?

00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:00.799
It depends on the ask.

00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:11.200
Like, I like the way you said design build, because for some firms, they've got a pretty big operation going on and they've got multiple layers, and it's design build.

00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:13.200
Like, okay, here's what do you want to achieve?

00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:14.960
What's the intended outcome?

00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:20.880
Here's my recommendation for this level of the organization, this level of the organization, and out there in the field.

00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:25.759
And there's a mix of coaching, consulting, and training throughout the thing.

00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:34.880
Now, I think the other important part that you've mentioned, and I want to like clarify this, at least from Jesse Land, right?

00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:37.839
The in my perspective, the idea of expertise.

00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:45.359
Because, and I need you like to correct us or get correct me if I'm wrong or if there's anything missing.

00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:50.720
Because for the LM family member out there that's listening, I know a lot, and I used to be this way.

00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:54.720
I was stuck in like, well, I can't, like, I've never done that before.

00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.359
I don't have the expertise, I don't have the experience.

00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:06.240
And so it was this limiting, it was this block in front of me that I allowed to keep me from it's like spanning my wings, right?

00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:20.079
And so, in terms of like training, facilitation, and all of that, what I learned, because I did it wrong early on, is I've done presentations this a long time ago on things that I had never I had no experience with.

00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:33.359
It was a concept or an idea that sounded cool and great, and so I did a training on it, but don't ask me no questions because my answer was you gotta look it up, you gotta read this book.

00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.960
I couldn't give any practical firsthand experience of me having done it.

00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.119
Yeah, well, we call that a book report.

00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:40.160
Well, there you go.

00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:41.440
I love that.

00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:54.720
I was doing book reports, and when I did that, I had zero expertise on the matter, and it was not fun, it was uncomfortable for me, and I know the people in the room were like, What the hell was this?

00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:55.119
Right?

00:18:55.279 --> 00:19:00.160
Like this was and now with YouTube, like you could just watch it on YouTube now, anyways.

00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.000
So, fast forward to like the question of expertise.

00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:26.640
The simplest way I can like make sense of that for me, and maybe for other people, is expertise is me talking, helping, sharing something that I have wrestled with to some degree that I have an insight and understanding about, which is not really that I notice I didn't say number of years, number of certifications.

00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:34.559
I said firsthand experience in wrestling and getting dirty and messy with it, and coming to some kind of understanding or insight that I can share.

00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:36.400
How does that land with you, Wally?

00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:37.759
It lands really good.

00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:39.200
Let me give you my take on it.

00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:50.240
Expertise is you can see options in doing the thing while you're doing the thing.

00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.440
So a teenager is driving.

00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:55.359
How far out is their scan?

00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:57.200
It's the radio, right?

00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:59.759
And all of a sudden they see brake lights in front of them.

00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:01.519
And they mash on the brake.

00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:02.160
Right.

00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:06.880
We're driving and we're seeing as far out in the front as we can.

00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:08.160
We're doing the thing.

00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:08.960
We're driving.

00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:10.799
But we see some brake lights a quarter mile out.

00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:11.920
And we're like, brake lights.

00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:13.599
Oh, brake lights are there.

00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.000
Oh, maybe I should move my foot off the gas.

00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.960
I don't have to do like the options are going.

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:23.839
Options and doing the thing while I'm doing the thing.

00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:25.680
All right, I'm starting to touch the brakes.

00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:28.240
Now I'm looking for my bailouts because this might not work.

00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:29.839
Looking for options.

00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.119
So I walk down to a job site.

00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:34.640
I see things.

00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:39.920
I don't see the things that the superintendent sees because they see options in doing the thing.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:41.359
They have expertise.

00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.440
So here's what I say from a coaching perspective when it comes back to our world.

00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:51.119
If your coach can't give you five ways to solve your problem, they may not be an expert.

00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:51.920
Yes.

00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:55.599
You know, they say, oh, what you need to do is I don't know.

00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:57.680
That's somebody giving you orders.

00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:58.319
Right.

00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:00.960
You know, expertise says, Well, you could do this.

00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:03.200
I don't know if it's a really good idea, but you could do it.

00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:04.000
You could do this.

00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:04.799
You could do this.

00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:05.680
You could do this.

00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:14.400
And here's the problem with expertise is you think you know the answer, and then you become less of a listener.

00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:14.960
Yeah.

00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:24.720
And that is the risk for leaders because they have been there, they have done that, they have seen it fail or work.

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.480
And then when the 22-year-old comes on the job site, they're like, Yeah, that was stupid.

00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:29.440
Shut up and dig.

00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.240
And then the kid never says another word.

00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.799
So long answer, long, long answer.

00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.000
Expertise is you can see options in doing the thing while you're doing the thing.

00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:38.640
Yeah.

00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:43.920
And I think the connection is it comes from having done the damn thing.

00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:46.240
Like if you've never done it, you won't know.

00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:46.720
Yeah.

00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:52.160
Or you know, if you spend enough time around it, though, that substitutes.

00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:59.839
Like, I don't have to get bloody to understand a bandage is required when someone is bleeding, right?

00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:00.720
Sure, sure.

00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:01.119
Right.

00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:04.480
So, you know, one of one of my favorite ones is the restaurant industry.

00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.880
Like, they teach you how to handle a robbery.

00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:10.640
That's something you never really want to be an expert in, right?

00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:10.960
Right.

00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:17.599
Um, but yes, I mean, and so now it are we just talking to a practitioner or an expert.

00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:23.200
Yeah, somebody who has been doing it for a long time truly may not be expert.

00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:30.960
They just may be repeating the same play, tired play, you know, and it says, Well, I have 20 years of experience.

00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.200
No, you have one year 20 times.

00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:33.759
Yes.

00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.119
Uh, and welcome to 2025, welcome to 2026.

00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.279
Means and methods are changing, demographics are changing, technology is changing.

00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:50.880
You cannot walk in and automatically apply the solution that worked last year, last month, whatever, last decade.

00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:57.200
It may be the right solution, but it has to be more thoughtful now than it than it has been.

00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:58.160
Yeah, yeah.

00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.359
Take into account the new conditions, right?

00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:06.079
Like, what did like sure that play worked under those conditions?

00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:06.880
Exactly.

00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:08.960
What are the conditions we're in now?

00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:18.480
The people, the all of the things that and I am guilty of I know the answer, release the kraken, and it did not work.

00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:25.839
Now, you play a lot in the leadership space in the construction leadership space.

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.359
Why did you pick construction leadership?

00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:31.279
Yeah, I'm an idiot.

00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:33.519
You know, what can I say?

00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:37.359
Dusty, dirty, male, in your face.

00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.960
My brother and dad were construction guys in New York City when I grew up.

00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:41.440
Nice.

00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:47.839
So when I was 13, 14, I was a helper on union jobs in New York City.

00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:53.359
And we all know what a helper means, you know, doing all that crap stuff, all the way up into college.

00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:58.480
And uh, so the real answer is this is in my blood.

00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:01.119
No, I'm I no, I'm not a builder, right?

00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:05.200
I can't hop on a machine on 10 different machines and make it sing.

00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:18.640
That's but the fundamental respect and understanding of what these crafts people, what these construction folks do day in, day out, it's in my blood.

00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:24.640
And when I'm standing across from a foreman on a job site, it's as if I'm hanging out with my brother.

00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:31.519
Uh, you know, a little banter, maybe a little BS, a little bravado, respect.

00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:32.240
Yeah.

00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.000
But respect and they look, people feel that.

00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:41.680
They don't feel wally with an MBA and a CSP and a CMC and all that stuff.

00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:42.799
They don't feel that.

00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:44.079
They don't care about that.

00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:49.279
They want to care that my solutions work for them and that I understand them.

00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:50.799
So why construction?

00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:51.359
I don't know.

00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:52.880
Maybe God put me here.

00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.119
Um, but this is where I am, and it's where I'm, you know.

00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:00.799
And early on, right, I was like, oh, I'm gonna be all things to all people, right?

00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:15.359
Back when we were teaching time management on Saturdays, and it's like something just embrace who you are and recognize yes, there are other places you could be doing things, but this is who I am, and you know something, it works pretty damn well.

00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:23.039
Yeah, man, yeah, 10 for I mean, everybody knows my story, it came up through the trades, and so it's like this is where I need to go.

00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:26.960
I know recently I've made I don't know how obvious it is, but I'm working on that.

00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:32.559
I made a little shift to really speak to subcontractors, right?

00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:39.599
Foreman, super superintendents, like the people that work for the subcontract, because that's where my expertise is.

00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:52.880
I spent over 20 years like doing the thing at various levels on the subcontractor side, but I just wasn't doing a very good job at speaking to them, saying, Hey, I'm gonna help you.

00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:53.440
Right.

00:25:53.759 --> 00:26:01.920
Which is not bad, but it's there was some period of time where I'm like, okay, I could do this for everybody, which didn't help, right?

00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:08.079
I was just kind of outstanding on the corner, screaming into nowhere, and then I said, Okay, no construction, and now I'm like, you know what?

00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:23.519
I'm gonna scope in a little tighter specifically for subcontractors, because there aren't a lot of people serving subcontractors, A, and B, there are even fewer with my we'll say resume or pedigree, right?

00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:35.200
Coming up as an installer foreman, worked for general contractors, works for owners, and having that kind of broader view or understanding of how like the commingling or the dance that is construction.

00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:39.599
So when you're out there, I mean, we talked about this a little while ago, right?

00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:47.759
There, there's there's the super, super high performing outfits out there that want to just stay on the front edge and still kick butt.

00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:53.839
There's some the majority, I'm gonna say majority, that are like, hey, it's fine, leave us alone, we ain't got time for you.

00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:58.559
And then there's the other ones that the sky is falling down, they need an intervention.

00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:02.000
And so, in terms of the folks that you serve, right?

00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:12.799
The organizations that you serve, what's the ratio between wanting to stay on the front edge and oh my god, we need a freaking transfusion?

00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:17.440
Yeah, yeah, I would say 80% are on the you know the good side.

00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:19.920
Oh yeah, yeah, no, really lucky.

00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:28.480
The ones that need a transfusion, they're usually so small that they're in that crisis mode, uh, you know, owner trying to figure it out, whatever.

00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:30.960
And I just don't spend a lot of time there.

00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:40.559
You know, your larger firm, so you get over a couple hundred million in this subcontractor world, you know, they're established and their crises look different.

00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:41.200
Oh, yeah.

00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:42.240
Um, right.

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:54.960
So they're not in that super catastrophic mode, usually, because there's enough decent people around them to do the intervention or help with the intervention.

00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:55.359
Yes.

00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:05.839
Now there are individuals within those organizations that get promoted to take your chief estimator, or you know, you're not going to be the VP of ops unless, you know, dot.

00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:10.240
So that's where coaching one-on-one coaching for six months to a year would come in.

00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.759
And we say, hey, can we can we do behavioral change here?

00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:16.079
The answer is yes in most cases, by the way.

00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:19.759
Like coaching does work if you choose to work.

00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:27.759
And you and I are both from a program where we learned how to do the work and you can transform your life and get sober and all of those things.

00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:31.359
So, you know, when somebody says that's just the way I am, that's crap.

00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:33.440
Yes, that's how you choose to be.

00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:42.000
Now, we're talking neuroscience that may have been established when you're seven, eight, nine, ten years old, and you're significantly baked by the age of 15.

00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:48.160
Like your neural pathways, as much as we have neuroplasticity, you some of it you're just not going to change.

00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:53.839
But there's a piece that you can, and you know, that's when the wife comes up to you at the Christmas party.

00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.440
So we know it's possible.

00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:56.240
Yeah.

00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:57.759
Oh, I love it.

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:04.079
I get the question of what's the best scenario for change to stick?

00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.039
Is it like preemptive?

00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:16.000
Get on the front end and teach and coach and like let all the flowers bloom, or is it when the shits hit the fan?

00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:20.160
And I'm like, philosophically, it's preemptive, right?

00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:23.279
When did Noah build start before the floods?

00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:28.000
But yeah, in practice, it's when the shit's hitting the fence.

00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:29.839
Yeah, it ain't working anymore.

00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:30.799
We need to do something different.

00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.440
Yes, you know, you know, you're right about both of those.

00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.160
Yeah, and it's exactly that, right?

00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:43.519
The pain, I'm I'm not sure whose quote it is, but like the pain of doing the same has exceeded the pain of change.

00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:46.480
So now people are more receptive to doing it differently.

00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:59.599
Whereas on the front end, doing it on the front end, which I'm a huge proponent of, it just takes longer for it to like really stick than you know the reactive approach.

00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:00.480
What's the phrase?

00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.039
You got sick and tired of being sick and tired, you know.

00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:04.720
So, yeah, exactly.

00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:15.039
All right, so we mentioned at the beginning that you've helped these companies deliver profits, and we've talked a little bit about consulting and coaching and training.

00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:25.839
So, what's the connection between the types of services that you and I provide, attraction and even retention of talent, and profits?

00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:36.720
Yeah, so it's a math problem that if culture is better, so I'll broadly say that because leaders are not jerks and those kinds of things.

00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:39.680
If culture is better, people choose to stay.

00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:44.000
Because we all know the line that people don't leave companies, they leave bosses, right?

00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.559
So if I've got a great company and I've got a great boss, people choose to stay.

00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:49.519
What does that mean?

00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:51.599
Well, that means turnover went down.

00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:52.880
How much?

00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:55.119
Probably about 20%.

00:30:55.759 --> 00:31:01.680
Uh if you compare, you know, expert with good, and then it's probably another 15% if you go to like you suck.

00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:14.640
But so so there's a measurable decrease in turnover, which we know increases safety, increases productivity, and those two things then increase profitability.

00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:15.200
Yeah.

00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:22.880
Now, I'll give you another way of looking at it from a guy who implemented all these things and created an incredible training center, etc.

00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:26.079
Many times great place to work since he started the initiative.

00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.039
They're growing like crazy in a good market in the southeast.

00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:30.240
He says, You know something, Wally?

00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.480
I don't know what the ROI is, I just know my life is a hell of a lot easier.

00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:39.839
Yes, yeah, you know, I want to be rude, Wally.

00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:50.799
It I get in these con not all the time, and it's usually a red flag of like, oh, we're gonna we may or may not have a long-term relationship here, right?

00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:51.599
Right.

00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:53.599
Is the well, what's the data?

00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:54.559
What's the ROI?

00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:55.279
What's the ROI?

00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:58.319
I'm like, okay, I appreciate your question.

00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:06.880
And in my head, what I'm thinking is, what was the data analysis you did on getting married?

00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:11.519
What was the data analysis you did on deciding to have children?

00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:18.160
Like, I understand where you're because if you did that analysis, you wouldn't have had children, right?

00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:20.079
Like, what's the ROI on that?

00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:24.559
Oh, you're gonna be negative at least a million dollars per child, like over the lifetime.

00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:32.720
Yeah, like um for real, this is what we're gonna talk about, but I understand it, and I'm with you, right?

00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:36.240
There is a connection, there is a line between I mean, how many?

00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.799
I'm sure you've heard this many times.

00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:58.160
It seems like every training I do, or whatever, consulting, whatever I'm doing, there's folks in the room, 15, 20, 30 year veterans in the industry that will say, Man, I've been around since you know, whatever, and this is the first time I ever got any training.

00:32:58.319 --> 00:32:59.119
You get that?

00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:05.759
All the time there that that crew lead is the most underserved and you know on the face of the earth.

00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:11.920
One day somebody gave him some keys and a tool and a clipboard, now keys and an iPad, and said, You're in charge.

00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.160
And God bless them, they pull it off.

00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:18.720
But yeah, we'll transition into we got a mental health issue.

00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.359
Oh, and part of it is because we bury these guys.

00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:22.480
Yeah, totally.

00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:30.799
I mean, that was that was what that experience is what motivated me early in my career when I was superintendent at the time.

00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:32.319
Well, it was also money, right?

00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:38.559
Because the company I worked with was an employee-owned organization, and we got bonuses by the project, anyways.

00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:45.039
When I got to superintendent level, I just assumed all the other foremen they kind of did the same thing.

00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:47.599
And I like they did not.

00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:51.119
And like the experience was I was pretty good at installing.

00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:52.319
I got promoted, I sucked.

00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:55.119
They told me I sucked for a year, I figured out I got better.

00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:56.480
Then I got promoted again.

00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:58.720
They told me I sucked for a year, right?

00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:04.079
And now I'm a workaholic, so I love the challenge and I'm super competitive.

00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:15.360
And so I put in a ton of time, not just like doing the job wrong, but learning how to do it, like for real, learning how to read the estimates and how to make labor projections based on what the estimate is and our production rates are.

00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:20.239
And then I'm like, why aren't we why aren't we teaching our guys this?

00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:50.800
We're just now don't get me wrong, the comp like it was TD Industries, they have a phenomenal leadership development program, which gave me a lot of tools on like how to like deal with people and maybe manage myself a little bit more, but they did nothing, they had nothing that helped me be a better foreman, that helped me be a better superintendent, like to do it within the context of that organization, yeah.

00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:56.320
And so that's where the train for me, I'm like, I'm gonna teach my guys how to how do you plan?

00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.039
What are the key characteristics of an actionable plan?

00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:01.360
How do you measure the performance of the plan?

00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:02.960
How do you learn from that?

00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:09.920
And now I was doing it one to help them, but also because I was, you know, I wanted my bonus.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:13.840
And if they did a better job planning, I got a bigger bonus, or we got bigger bonuses.

00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:37.039
And so what I could also see is an employee owner of the company was man, there was that foreman and the superintendent leap where people either made it and they were like it was extremely taxing for that person, yeah, and it was very expensive for us because there was a lot of mistakes and right, like super, super expensive.

00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.519
And the same thing at the superintendent level.

00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:44.320
And so when we started doing the training, I was doing it at the bar with my buddies, right?

00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:48.239
Like, hey man, I'll show you how I read the estimate and the budget and whatever.

00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:51.760
And then eventually I became responsible for doing the thing.

00:35:51.920 --> 00:36:12.559
We saw a dramatic impact, like dramatic impact, yeah, in terms of operating income, huge, it was amazing, but we also, which I wasn't paying attention to back then, saw major impact in like the quality of life our foreman and superintendents were experiencing, which was something I did not pay attention to back then.

00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:23.920
Now I do, and so in terms of like quality of life for the folk the frontline leaders, is that your primary focus, like that audience?

00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:35.679
So, no, this isn't about quality of life, this is about a construction company making money.

00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:40.960
However, when I stand in front of dudes, I'll say, Hey, here's what the deal is.

00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:46.320
If you do some of this stuff, you'll have more smiley faces and more dollar signs on the job site.

00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:48.559
So it is about quality of life.

00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:53.440
And I don't, I you know, I in this oh, by the way, we never said low of the standard, right?

00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:55.280
Let's go back to that conversation, right?

00:36:55.519 --> 00:36:58.079
These are not mutually exclusive concepts.

00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:03.199
You can you can have great culture, you can make a ton of money.

00:37:03.519 --> 00:37:06.800
Oh, but why this is construction, you don't understand.

00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:11.760
No, I do understand, like it rained Tuesday through Thursday.

00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:13.760
We're paving on Saturday.

00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:15.840
I'm sorry, like it's going to happen.

00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.440
And nobody has a problem with that.

00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:25.599
We haven't had rain in nine weeks, and we're paving on Saturday, right?

00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:28.239
You know, that's where we miss it.

00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:34.239
But you were talking earlier about what you began to train when you were in the supervisory role.

00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:40.559
When we help create a frontline leadership program, about half of it is my stuff.

00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:48.320
About half of it, and we're talking six, eight days of training here over, you know, a couple of months, could be planning, right?

00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:48.800
For sure.

00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:51.360
Hopefully they've learned that, but short it will scheduling.

00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:53.760
How do we create an estimate?

00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:58.159
One of the most fascinating classes because nobody knows how the estimate is created.

00:37:58.320 --> 00:37:58.639
Right.

00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:06.320
And you know, if you're talking, you know, a dirt guy, for example, they've got Ag Tech and Google Earth and this and that.

00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:10.559
They've got a hundred thousand dollars worth of software just to put the bid together, right?

00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:17.760
So, and they're out there walking the job and they're flying it with drones, and the field guys are going, oh, you really didn't just throw a dart at a dart board?

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:19.840
Equipment utilization, right?

00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:23.760
How much are you gonna charge me for this D7 and why, et cetera?

00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:33.199
These are fascinating points, but they enable this frontline leader now to make better decisions, yes, and to explain to the team.

00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:35.039
So, yeah, the things there.

00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:38.639
So I think there's a pyramid, uh, not a pyramid, a triangle.

00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:41.039
I talk about I call the success triangle.

00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:43.679
At the base of the triangle is technical competence.

00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:49.119
You know how to pull wire, you know how to paint, you know how to dig, whatever that craft is.

00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.639
Like you have to have that foundational piece.

00:38:53.039 --> 00:39:01.599
Then we move into management, which is the planning, the organizing, those kinds of things, understanding the bid, et cetera.

00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:07.280
And then there's leadership, which arguably is generic, right?

00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.159
How do you how do you get along with people, et cetera?

00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:15.039
There's nuances within our industry about culture, the way people are and stuff like that.

00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:17.360
But you got to do all of those things.

00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:21.760
And what you talked about is you went through those three progressions.

00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.400
Like you were good, you got promoted, you suck.

00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:26.239
You were good, you got promoted, you sucked, right?

00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:29.440
And you went through those progressions and you made it.

00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:33.280
And a lot of guys are doing it, but they haven't made it.

00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:36.480
And what I mean by that is life is brutal.

00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:37.039
Yes.

00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:46.159
And they go home and they don't see their kids, and it's all right, like even in the best weeks, you know, they're long hours.

00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:49.039
So it doesn't have to suck.

00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.480
It's gonna be hard, but it doesn't have to suck.

00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:54.159
Yes, you're exactly right.

00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:59.599
It's like sprints or doing hills, like it's gonna hurt, but it doesn't.

00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:00.960
Have to suck.

00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:02.719
And it gets better.

00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:03.599
It gets better.

00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:04.800
You gotta put in the work.

00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:14.639
But I think, you know, one of my I think my whiny wines of today, and this is just more evidence of how hypocritical I am, Wally.

00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:27.039
I agree and believe to my heart that as a journeyman, whatever, doesn't matter what trade, part of your responsibilities as a journeyman is to develop apprentices, right?

00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:30.320
To teach them and train them and help them get better at the trade.

00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:33.039
Same thing as foreman, same thing as superintendent.

00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:35.199
I believe that, and that's the way I did my job.

00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:36.960
Now, here's my gripe.

00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:42.480
Companies do nothing to reinforce and appreciate that.

00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:54.320
So when a company has an individual that has that heart mindset or that leadership trait, they're lucky because very and maybe I'm the net's too broad.

00:40:54.480 --> 00:41:02.880
There are very few companies that have actually earned that leadership from their individuals.

00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:08.639
Most of them just expect it but do nothing to nurture, develop it, and like propagate it.

00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:09.199
What do you think?

00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:10.559
Am I talking smack?

00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:11.599
No, you're not.

00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:23.119
I you know, I remember talking to a guy who's a regional manager years back, and it's like every 18 months they were taking his project engineers away, you know, to go be project managers elsewhere and regional manager.

00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:26.159
And uh, you know, there was no bonus for that.

00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:35.280
I mean, it was just in his DNA, but it's almost like the company expected him to, you know, develop that next project engineer, etc.

00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:38.719
Look, I think that if you're a leader, it's in your DNA.

00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:40.000
You make new leaders.

00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:40.639
Yep.

00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:44.719
If you're an apprentice, if you're a journeyman, you make new journeyman, right?

00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:45.920
It's the same concept.

00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:50.960
It is interesting though how we all forget we were all knuckleheads once.

00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:52.079
Yep, right.

00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:56.800
Somebody helped you, somebody helped me.

00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:01.199
Now it might have been behind the dumpster, right?

00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:10.159
Or it might have been over coffee, either one, but every single one of us had help along the way.

00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:17.920
And if listeners do one thing coming out of this call, is right now when I say it, who can you help?

00:42:18.159 --> 00:42:19.679
Somebody's name went through your mind.

00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:20.639
Oh, yeah, right.

00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:23.760
Okay, that's your project.

00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:28.159
You know, lean in a little bit more, get to know them a little bit more.

00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:29.840
Maybe you know exactly what they need, right?

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.679
You know, and maybe they can start doing the daily huddle or something like that, whatever.

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:39.840
But every single one of us got helped, and we go back to servant when we started this call, right?

00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:41.760
Who are you gonna help?

00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:43.360
It's an easy takeaway.

00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:44.559
Yeah, totally.

00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:50.800
And back to the selfish servant, like that gives me fulfillment, right?

00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:56.480
Have an interesting relationship between profits and fulfillment, quality of life.

00:42:56.639 --> 00:42:58.239
I'm an addict, right?

00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.880
And I will be, it's just it's in my DNA, baby, period.

00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:15.039
Yeah, and when I started my business, like I set a revenue goal, a revenue target for the year, and I'm blessed because I blew that freaking thing out of the water within the first less than six months.

00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.119
It was like four months, and like, whoa, I need to set a bigger target.

00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:23.039
So I set a bigger target and I blew that thing out of the water again.

00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:27.360
And then I was like, wait, okay, I'm an addict.

00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:34.159
If I keep just chasing these dollar goals, I'm I'm on a slippery slope, right?

00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:43.119
Like, I have a lot of things in place that keep me sober and on the contribution path, but I'm building me a slide down, is what I was doing.

00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:45.119
And so I had to change my focus.

00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:48.000
Okay, what are the things of the services that I provide?

00:43:48.320 --> 00:43:50.719
Which one give me the most fulfillment?

00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.840
And then I said, Okay, oh man, those are the least profitable.

00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:57.599
Well, come on, big boy! Like, you this is if this is the goal, this is the goal.

00:43:57.679 --> 00:43:58.639
So I had to change it.

00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:04.239
So back to the selfish servant and this idea of profitability and quality of life.

00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:11.679
Like, I have to focus on contribution and service so that I can stay alive.

00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:16.880
If I focus on the other things, and I'll also add to that, right?

00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:22.639
Focusing on quality of life and serving others has produced enormous profit.

00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:26.079
I don't have the same outcome if I flip the focus.

00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:27.280
Does that make sense, Wally?

00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:28.800
No, it totally does.

00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:33.519
If I increase the capacity of my team, that makes my life easier, yeah.

00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:34.000
Right.

00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:43.519
So when I teach somebody how to uh do a walk around or how to uh whatever, whatever, when I increase the capacity of my team, that makes my life better.

00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:49.440
So that that means I I don't have to micromanage, maybe I can get out of work on time.

00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:54.000
You know, one of the phrases I'll ask is what's going to cause somebody to take the bullet for you?

00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:55.840
Oh, ooh, yeah.

00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:09.760
Meaning, you know, it's Friday afternoon, we're dirt guys, there's a tropical storm coming in, and Jose makes the decision to walk the job one more time to make sure erosion control is in place.

00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:11.119
Yeah, right.

00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:14.320
That's what we're trying, and what does that do?

00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.960
That creates more smiley faces and more dollar signs, right?

00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:19.760
Because everyone kind of, you know, good things are happening.

00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:21.440
So I'm totally with you.

00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.320
So, you know, it is it really selfish?

00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:27.119
No, I mean, we all win when we do it.

00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:30.719
It's and that's a growth mindset, yes, right?

00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:44.320
It's not a deficit mindset of, oh, if I give to you and I are competitors, yeah, we do the exact same thing for the exact same people in a several trillion dollar industry.

00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:52.000
Yeah, I'm fairly confident I'm still gonna be able to put food on the table, though I have done this, right?

00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:55.519
Yes, so and I think you're starting to see this in the industry, right?

00:45:55.679 --> 00:46:05.199
These top contractors in whatever trade in the dirt world that the dirt world guys have done it with this dirt world summit and Aaron Witt and Buildwit.

00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:06.719
I mean, you're right.

00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:16.559
And you have if you have competitors coming together, no collusion, none of that, but saying, What are you doing on the people front?

00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:17.119
What do you do?

00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:31.760
Like the best thing I want is for you to be superior because what happens is somebody paid you and said it was worth it to bring in an outside person, and then maybe they'll bring me in or go to a different company or whatever, right?

00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:37.119
If you suck, then by reputation, I suck, right?

00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:45.840
So this elevation of the industry is absolutely happening, and there's plenty of room for this.

00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:47.280
Oh, absolutely.

00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:52.079
You know, uh when I first started my little business, it's just me, right?

00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:53.760
It's just me kind of tinkering.

00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:57.440
I was asking folks, like, hey, do you have a proposal?

00:46:57.599 --> 00:46:59.519
Like, I don't know any, like, what do I need to know?

00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:00.639
Can you give me a template?

00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:04.719
And there were a couple of people there like, like, Jess, you're just gonna have to figure it out.

00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.599
Like, they had this scarcity mindset, yeah, yeah.

00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:09.119
Which I understand, like, I get it.

00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:11.199
It's not the game I play, I get it.

00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:18.159
And but the thing that goes through my head, even now when I'm working with companies, they're like, Well, you know, you can't, you got to keep this a secret.

00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:19.119
I'm like, you know what?

00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:30.480
You I will, but you're not doing anything dramatically different than anybody else, like proprietary, like from a sp uh perspective of proprietary value or intellectual property.

00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:32.719
It's like y'all are doing the same things.

00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:38.239
It's you're pretty well thinking, you know, uh Alabama, pretty good football team, right?

00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:41.760
Yeah, everybody knew what Nick Saban was doing, right?

00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:47.039
They could see the plays, they knew what he did from a culture perspective because he went out and lectured on it.

00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:50.559
They hired his assistants, they went and did it other places.

00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.599
There was there are no secrets there.

00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:56.559
Yeah, there is a secret sauce, right?

00:47:56.719 --> 00:47:58.639
And that's how does that all come together?

00:47:58.800 --> 00:47:59.119
Yes.

00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:03.280
Now, I know my cynics are gonna go out there and go, Well, they're not doing it anymore.

00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:07.599
Context changed, NIL changed everything, right?

00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:10.480
So, this we talked about context earlier.

00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:16.079
So, no, no, don't be a jerk and treat people with respect is not exactly proprietary.

00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:24.480
But how does that really come to you know for in your company if you have an owner who says it or an owner who believes it?

00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:27.519
Yeah, and and that's very different.

00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:28.400
Amen.

00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:29.360
Amen.

00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:30.800
100.

00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:37.039
And none of us can handle all the work if we got it, anyways, right?

00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:37.920
Let's just say that.

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:39.679
Like, for real, I couldn't.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:44.159
My systems are not set up to handle all of the work that is available.

00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:45.679
I don't want all the work.

00:49:32.599 --> 00:49:35.000
Well, that gets into the thing our contractors get into.

00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:43.000
Well, I'm just gonna hire more people, and then you lose contact with the customer and you lose quality, and that's a decision you get to make, yeah, right.

00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:44.199
That's a choice you get to make.

00:49:44.279 --> 00:49:49.319
I have buddies who run multi-multi-million dollar businesses and have 40 employees.

00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:50.119
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:50.279 --> 00:49:50.920
You know something?

00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:58.599
I like having, I'm gonna use the word an intimate relationship with the owners or presidents that I work with.

00:49:58.839 --> 00:50:07.480
So, you know, that there's this deep level of trust where I could probably pick up the phone, you know, and there's your popular client, you know, the people you're working with right now, right?

00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:09.480
And call and go, hey, I got a question.

00:50:09.639 --> 00:50:11.239
I have a question of you.

00:50:11.799 --> 00:50:13.799
And they're like, Yeah, what's up, Wally?

00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:15.719
Well, I don't want sorry to bother you on Friday, you know.

00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:17.239
It's like, don't worry about it, brother.

00:50:17.319 --> 00:50:17.639
It's cool.

00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:18.119
What's up?

00:50:18.199 --> 00:50:27.079
Yeah, you know, and but the those are the type of people we associate with, those are the type of people who want to get better.

00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:44.039
And I wasn't always that way, you aren't always that way, but you step into the light of this servant mentality, this growth mentality, and people are out there listening to me going, you drank some Kool-Aid, you know, like woo-woo.

00:50:44.599 --> 00:50:46.599
No, like, whoa, yeah, right.

00:50:47.319 --> 00:50:50.199
I've been in great cultures and I've been in crappy cultures.

00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:53.400
Everybody out there has been in great cultures and crappy cultures.

00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:56.519
And now here's a reality check for some of our listeners.

00:50:56.679 --> 00:51:00.039
You're hostage to where you are, you're afraid to leave.

00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:07.000
Because now, this the economy right now maybe not a good time to leave, but right, if it sucks, there's a better place out there.

00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:07.799
There really is.

00:51:08.039 --> 00:51:08.519
100%.

00:51:09.319 --> 00:51:10.199
100%.

00:51:11.239 --> 00:51:17.880
I think from two perspectives, I know a lot of people that I want to be a senior PM, I want to be a senior, they want a promotion.

00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:18.519
I like all that.

00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:20.519
Right, yeah.

00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:21.799
I was like, that's easy.

00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:25.319
Quit your job, go apply for another job, and tell them you want the time.

00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:30.360
They'll give you the like you'll they'll hire you, they need you, and they'll give you more money, too.

00:51:30.679 --> 00:51:33.079
And however, yeah, exactly.

00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:35.000
Like, are you one?

00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:37.319
Is it really what you want?

00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:39.159
Do you know what you're asking for?

00:51:39.400 --> 00:51:44.199
And two, it doesn't mean the same thing everywhere you go.

00:51:44.519 --> 00:52:06.279
Right, senior PM, it don't matter, like company to company, there are different expectations or different levels of performance, and the idea of getting that little promotion, that change in title, maybe there's something deeper that needs to be examined and understood before you go make a big giant mess of things because you haven't got the title that you want.

00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:11.159
Well, and the culture at your current company, you know, maybe superior, right?

00:52:11.239 --> 00:52:16.199
But you go over, I never forget a guy came up to me at World of Concrete a couple years back, you know, 400 people in the room.

00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:17.799
He comes up, hey, how you doing?

00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:19.079
I'm like, Oh Christ, here we go.

00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:20.920
He goes, Yeah, you know, I'm listening to what you're saying.

00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:22.119
I'm like, Oh, here we go.

00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:24.440
Um, because I'm talking about great culture.

00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:31.639
And he says, a couple of years ago, I said, he says, a couple years ago, I said, F the culture, I'm going for the money.

00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:35.159
I'm like, okay, how long did you stay?

00:52:35.319 --> 00:52:37.319
He goes, Oh, nine months, couldn't take it.

00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:40.519
You couldn't pay me enough to be there, yeah.

00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:45.159
So the you know what's the grass is always greener, but just they're gonna mow the lawn or whatever.

00:52:45.319 --> 00:52:45.799
Oh, yeah.

00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:48.199
Um, right, but it's really tough.

00:52:48.279 --> 00:52:51.000
So here we are saying, look, you can leave and go somewhere else.

00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:54.360
Yeah, but really take a good look.

00:52:54.519 --> 00:52:58.199
Now, if your world truly sucks, then yeah, you probably need to go.

00:52:58.279 --> 00:53:06.199
But if it's like, you know, I could make 10% more across the street, yeah, but they don't respect you across the street.

00:53:06.279 --> 00:53:11.719
They think I had a guy say this to me once, he goes, I don't know how people why people would want to go there.

00:53:11.960 --> 00:53:13.159
We pay more.

00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:14.599
Yeah, won't go.

00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:25.719
And it was about Granite Rock, which back with TD, they were like the founding the foundation members of the great culture club in construction, documented from a great place to work perspective.

00:53:26.039 --> 00:53:27.239
Great point, right?

00:53:27.319 --> 00:53:31.000
But there was a competitor of Granite Rock saying, Well, we pay more, we must be better.

00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:33.480
And it's like, oh no, I've seen their PL, buddy.

00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:34.920
You ain't better.

00:53:35.079 --> 00:53:37.799
Yeah, you have no idea.

00:53:38.199 --> 00:53:39.799
Yeah, okay.

00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:45.960
So there's two more points I want to hit on before we get into the Grand Slam question.

00:53:46.519 --> 00:53:59.319
So you mentioned the dirt world, and from my perspective, it may just be straight up ignorance, my own ignorance, but I feel like the energy in the dirt world, like there's the summit.

00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:14.440
I don't know if it's their second or third year they've had it, but there just seems to be a volcano of energy and messaging and like freaking amazing leaders along with the summit and you know, all of that.

00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:20.839
Am I did I just miss it before, or did it just kind of hit the scene and like it's taking over?

00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:29.960
It's it's a recent thing, it really is what Aaron Witt has created over the last seven years, I guess.

00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:39.000
Yeah, and you know, you have internet and vision and passion and borderline stupidity, you know, in trying to create a movement.

00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:43.880
But he it so no, it is, and that's where I'm spending a lot of my time these days.

00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:48.920
But you're right, you go to the electrical world or the mechanical world or the GC world, whatever.

00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:51.880
And look, everyone's got their trade association, right?

00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:58.679
I mean, but but it be it's that zero-sum game of well, if I get mine, you don't get yours, right?

00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:00.039
Or vice versa.

00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:01.639
And it's just a different mentality.

00:55:01.799 --> 00:55:07.079
Look, like we all so high schools, we're gonna recruit out of high schools.

00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:13.000
Well, the industry figured that out about five years ago, uh because now we're and it's like, okay, cool.

00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:15.719
Well, you know something who uh you know who has got figured out now?

00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:16.519
Healthcare.

00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:18.039
Healthcare is in the high schools.

00:55:18.199 --> 00:55:19.639
You know who else figured it out?

00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:26.039
Tech is going to the high schools and saying, You're a nerd, you don't need to go to college, you can come to work for me.

00:55:26.199 --> 00:55:31.319
So we're like, oh shit, we thought we found this great labor source.

00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:43.400
It's like we did, but we notice I say we, uh the construction industry is in a war for talent, not with the contractor next door, right?

00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:51.639
But with the healthcare company where they get to work inside every day, or the high tech company where they get to go nerdy stuff every day.

00:55:51.880 --> 00:56:07.239
Now, look, not everyone is built for each of those environments, but there's a story to be told, and we as an industry, you remember got milk and beef, like those industries figure, you know, pork, the other white meat, whatever.

00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:11.079
Those industries figured it out.

00:56:11.319 --> 00:56:15.799
Yeah, and construction is too busy battling itself.

00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:18.599
Yep, yep, yeah.

00:56:18.759 --> 00:56:34.039
I love, I mean, it's interesting to see not just the messaging because I have a heartache about the idea of marketing to trade, to bring more people into the industry when we treat them like crap when they get here, right?

00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:36.039
That's called bait and switch, right?

00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:36.920
Like that's it.

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:43.159
There's there's a I mean, generally speaking, it is absolutely a bait and switch situation.

00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:59.159
Yeah, there are pockets of like real amazing experiences, but they're small pockets, they're growing, but they're small, and so it's not just the bait and switch of hey, come work for my subcontractor alpha, my HVAC company.

00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:05.159
It's also the bait and switch of when you go work on a project, and the GC is going to treat you like crap too.

00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:10.599
So yeah, yeah, like there's we have systemic things that need to be fixed.

00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:12.119
The marketing, I agree.

00:57:12.279 --> 00:57:24.199
Now, with what I love in like watching what's going on over there with the in the dirt world is not just the marketing, like the production value, it's freaking amazing.

00:57:24.279 --> 00:57:25.400
Like, man, that's amazing.

00:57:25.480 --> 00:57:28.519
I would love to do that, and I know I'm not gonna put in the effort to get that good.

00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:30.839
I'm good with my messy shit, like whatever.

00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:45.559
Yeah, but I also what seems what I think I'm seeing is there's leaders that are associated with that movement that are also becoming more visible, and their people within their organizations are becoming more visible and more active.

00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:59.880
And I think that rather that to me is what's special about what's happening in the dirt world that hasn't made its way through the other, we'll say, segments of the construction industry.

00:58:00.279 --> 00:58:01.559
Yeah, you're absolutely right.

00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:07.239
Look, I mean, there's enough electrical guys, there's enough mechanical guys to have movement, right?

00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:09.079
Tile guys, maybe not, right?

00:58:10.759 --> 00:58:11.799
Right, and I don't love those guys.

00:58:11.880 --> 00:58:19.480
My brother did that for years, so yeah, it's almost like you know, Prince, Beyonce, you know, the people you know by one, you know, LeBron.

00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:26.920
Um, there are people within the dirt world that are becoming, yes, you know, Aaron and Herb and Chad and Dan.

00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:29.000
And it's like, oh, you know them.

00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:30.920
I'm like, yeah, I didn't with them last night.

00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:32.360
Oh, you're so special.

00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:35.079
No, I'm just a trying to help people get better.

00:58:35.319 --> 00:58:35.559
Right.

00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:37.079
Yeah, it's like, yeah, whatever.

00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:37.719
Yeah, yeah.

00:58:37.799 --> 00:58:38.279
No, you're right.

00:58:38.360 --> 00:58:39.719
Herb's one that stands out.

00:58:39.799 --> 00:58:40.679
That guy's amazing.

00:58:40.759 --> 00:58:43.799
I got to have a meal with them here in San Antonio.

00:58:44.039 --> 00:58:44.360
Okay.

00:58:44.839 --> 00:58:56.599
Now you have been putting out an annual, I'm gonna mess it up, but like an annual report based on some pretty significant, I'm gonna call it research.

00:58:56.759 --> 00:58:59.639
Yeah, like what can you tell the audience?

00:58:59.960 --> 00:59:11.319
Because I peaked it as like, okay, like there's some heavy stuff, and I love lately, I've seen your post kind of pulling chunks out of it or insights from what you've learned and gleaned over the years.

00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:12.119
What is that?

00:59:12.199 --> 00:59:16.920
So the LM family knows that there's something out there that they can go seek their teeth into.

00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:19.480
Yeah, it's the people in construction report.

00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:25.319
Yeah, and I do it every other year, and it is it goes back to this conversation about expertise, right?

00:59:25.480 --> 00:59:29.400
About rather than just running my mouth, let's give some good data.

00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:40.199
So every other year, starting in 2019, and we just released uh a couple months ago, and it's data with which you can look at your organization.

00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:44.199
Uh, it's survey based and it's a little bit of focus group based.

00:59:44.279 --> 00:59:50.440
So once I get the data, I'll go talk to folks that have responded to it and go, all right, tell me a little bit more about this.

00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:54.279
Because, like any survey, it only tells you so much.

00:59:54.839 --> 00:59:59.480
Um, and it it just talks about everything we've talked about.

00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:01.159
Uh, it talks about the field.

01:00:01.880 --> 01:00:04.440
There's universal themes, the field office chasm.

01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:06.039
You know, how do you bridge that?

01:00:06.279 --> 01:00:12.920
Um, mental health is a new mega trend, you know, that is out there over the last couple of years.

01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:17.000
So, yeah, it's the people in construction report, comes off the people in construction survey.

01:00:17.079 --> 01:00:19.319
You can go to wallyatamcheck.com and get it.

01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:23.079
I don't firewall it, I don't ask you for your email.

01:00:23.239 --> 01:00:24.440
I'm too lazy.

01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:25.960
Um for those of you, yeah.

01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:30.039
For those of you on LinkedIn, you can go right to my profile and it's right there.

01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:33.079
It's a red cover this year, people in construction report.

01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:35.000
And it's it's pretty good data.

01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:39.799
And uh goes back to your question earlier about profitability and all that stuff.

01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:45.639
Like there is there there are very few places where you can look at culture profit, right?

01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:46.360
Because these are all.

01:00:46.839 --> 01:01:00.599
Dependent variables, but I try to give as much data here so people can kind of see some of those dependencies because you're never going to be able to say Jesse did a program, we need we made more money.

01:01:00.839 --> 01:01:02.599
It's like we're the piece of equipment.

01:01:02.839 --> 01:01:05.559
Oh, we got a bigger backhoe, we were able to move more dirt.

01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:07.079
Okay, I can show that one.

01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:10.440
So yeah, people in construction report, go get it, take a look at it.

01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:11.639
Beautiful, beautiful.

01:01:11.719 --> 01:01:13.079
Yeah, it's super valuable.

01:01:13.239 --> 01:01:15.559
I like like there's the correlation, right?

01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:19.880
Like if I got a backhoe with a bigger bucket, I'm gonna move more yards.

01:01:19.960 --> 01:01:21.639
And that's the math question.

01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:25.880
The stuff that we do, in some cases, I'm like, yeah, there's a direct correlation.

01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:30.599
I can do the math and show it to you, but I gotta you gotta let me do that.

01:01:31.319 --> 01:01:33.639
Yes, you measure turnover, right?

01:01:33.960 --> 01:01:35.079
One less guy left.

01:01:35.239 --> 01:01:38.119
Was that because of you or because his wife had a baby?

01:01:38.199 --> 01:01:41.159
I like I don't like you know, yeah, yeah.

01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:44.199
So uh it's a bit of a leap of faith on our stuff for sure.

01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:45.960
10 for amazing.

01:01:46.119 --> 01:01:46.679
All right, Mr.

01:01:46.839 --> 01:01:47.159
Wally.

01:01:47.719 --> 01:01:50.519
You're you told us about your website.

01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:52.599
Actually, let me make sure.

01:01:52.759 --> 01:01:56.599
I'm sure folks out there listening, they're saying, Man, I need some more of the Wally.

01:01:57.000 --> 01:01:59.719
So we're gonna give them your LinkedIn, the profile link.

01:01:59.960 --> 01:02:03.639
We'll get the website in the thing so they can get the people in construction report.

01:02:03.799 --> 01:02:13.960
But if they want like a super awesome like baller that has massive expertise to come and help their company, do you have bandwidth for that?

01:02:14.199 --> 01:02:15.559
Should they call you?

01:02:15.799 --> 01:02:18.519
Well, first of all, a phone call is always zero.

01:02:18.839 --> 01:02:20.679
And if you know, it doesn't cost anything, right?

01:02:20.839 --> 01:02:21.000
Right.

01:02:21.400 --> 01:02:24.279
And this just it's just like another podcast, right?

01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:29.400
I mean, it's like let's share information, let's talk, and you know, you never know, right?

01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:31.880
What makes sense and when makes sense?

01:02:32.039 --> 01:02:34.920
You know, there's always a little bit of bandwidth, right?

01:02:35.559 --> 01:02:38.279
Um, but I'm learning like you, not to put as much.

01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:41.480
My two Februaries ago, I worked.

01:02:41.719 --> 01:02:46.360
When I say worked, I mean stood in front of every single weekday, every single day, right?

01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:48.360
So 20, 5, 10, 15, 20 days.

01:02:48.519 --> 01:02:50.599
Like I made a lot of money.

01:02:50.759 --> 01:02:55.079
Yeah, then Memorial Day weekend, I had 102 degree fever for 48 hours.

01:02:55.319 --> 01:02:57.159
Oh, geez, no way.

01:02:57.400 --> 01:02:59.319
Yeah, so that's the body going.

01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:01.960
That's not gonna let you do this anymore.

01:03:02.199 --> 01:03:05.639
But uh yeah, so yeah, like you said, if they want to know more.

01:03:05.799 --> 01:03:08.920
I mean, I post what five, six times a day a week on LinkedIn.

01:03:09.079 --> 01:03:13.639
So you'll know you'll either love me or hate me after tracking me on LinkedIn for a little while.

01:03:13.799 --> 01:03:16.920
And uh then, yeah, a DM and an email is fine.

01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:17.880
Excellent.

01:03:18.039 --> 01:03:18.440
All right.

01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:21.719
Well, are you ready for the grand slam closing question, Mr.

01:03:21.799 --> 01:03:22.039
Water?

01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:23.559
I don't know, but I have to be.

01:03:23.719 --> 01:03:24.279
You gotta be.

01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:25.079
Here we go.

01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:37.319
And I imagine with the amount of interaction, the caliber of leaders that you've supported in developing themselves, and also the leader that you are, I'm really eager to hear your answer.

01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:43.079
So here's a question: What is the promise you are intended to be?

01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:47.239
I a little bit of background.

01:03:48.119 --> 01:03:54.199
A couple months ago, I was driving from North Carolina, Raleigh to the coast doing a speech out in New Bern.

01:03:54.519 --> 01:03:59.159
For those of you who don't know the the eastern part of North Carolina, it's like driving through West Texas.

01:03:59.319 --> 01:04:01.799
I mean, there's nothing, right?

01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:04.519
There's no gas stations, there's nothing.

01:04:04.759 --> 01:04:08.279
So there's about an hour of me going, I'm not done yet.

01:04:08.519 --> 01:04:11.799
Like I'm aging, but but I'm not done yet.

01:04:12.599 --> 01:04:14.199
Why am I not done yet?

01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:19.000
Because I know more than I've ever known, and I'm humbler than I've ever been.

01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:23.799
So the promise is to be a better human being.

01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:25.719
And what does that mean?

01:04:26.039 --> 01:04:32.039
To put goodness out in the world so that it can be manifested further.

01:04:32.360 --> 01:04:40.519
My world narrowly happens to be job sites, but you know, the person at the airport, man, I really try to be nice.

01:04:40.839 --> 01:04:43.480
I'm a jerk every day, you know, to some degree.

01:04:43.639 --> 01:04:44.759
I mean, we're human, right?

01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:53.079
Yeah, um, but I think the promise is to put goodness out there because man, we need a lot more of that these days.

01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:54.759
Oh man, I love it.

01:04:55.000 --> 01:05:03.639
And that that t-shirt quote, I'm older and I'm humbler, I know more and I'm humbler.

01:05:03.880 --> 01:05:07.960
Like, holy moly, like that's facts, baby.

01:05:08.199 --> 01:05:08.920
Oh, Mr.

01:05:09.079 --> 01:05:10.279
Wally, thank you, sir.

01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:11.000
Did you have fun?

01:05:11.239 --> 01:05:14.119
Yes, oh you know me, I just I speak for a living, right?

01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:15.719
So you let me just run my mouth.

01:05:15.799 --> 01:05:17.480
I mean, let's keep going.

01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:19.000
I know it, I know.

01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:25.799
You know, I like to say this to the teachers that told me that I would never amount to anything because I talked too much.

01:05:26.039 --> 01:05:28.599
Now I'm like, how you like me now?

01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:39.559
But you know, I and I know I loved it, and we could you and I could go on all day, but the real message to the listeners is all of this is possible, right?

01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:43.960
Not all of it once, but all of it is possible.

01:05:44.119 --> 01:05:52.920
Like who you and I are today was unenvisioned a couple years back, for me, 20 something years back, right?

01:05:53.079 --> 01:05:53.400
Right.

01:05:53.559 --> 01:05:58.119
Um, so you know, fear, self-serving, whatever.

01:05:58.519 --> 01:06:00.920
Goodness is possible.

01:06:01.319 --> 01:06:03.239
Growth is possible.

01:06:03.639 --> 01:06:06.599
The fact that you're listening to this is nice.

01:06:07.079 --> 01:06:09.159
Take something and do something with it.

01:06:09.319 --> 01:06:10.199
That'll be better.

01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:13.159
Thank you for sticking it out all the way to the end.

01:06:13.319 --> 01:06:15.480
I know you got a whole lot of stuff going on.

01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:26.039
And in appreciation for the gift of time that you have given this episode, I want to offer you a free PDF of my book, Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be.

01:06:26.199 --> 01:06:28.519
The link for that bad boy is down in the show notes.

01:06:28.679 --> 01:06:29.159
Hit it.

01:06:29.319 --> 01:06:31.159
You don't even have to give me your email address.

01:06:31.480 --> 01:06:32.279
There's a link in there.

01:06:32.360 --> 01:06:35.000
You just click that button, you can download the PDF.

01:06:35.319 --> 01:06:45.480
And if you share it with somebody that you know who might feel stuck or be caught up in self-destructive behaviors, that would be the ultimate.

01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:51.400
You sharing that increases the likelihood that it's going to help one more person.

01:06:52.039 --> 01:07:00.119
And if it does help one more person, then you're contributing to me becoming the promise I am intended to be.

01:07:00.839 --> 01:07:04.920
Be kind to yourself, be cool, and we'll talk at you next time.