March 26, 2026

Keep the Flame Alive: Apprenticeships, Retention, and Building a Training Culture in the Trades (with Manja Horner)

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Season 3

Jesse hosts the Learnings and Missteps podcast and interviews Manja Horner, founder and CEO of Boost Learning Design, about solving skilled-trades workforce shortages driven by retirements and the long push toward college over trades. Manja introduces her book, “Pass the Torch: A Call to Rescue the Future of Trades,” and explains her “talent flywheel” for retention: strong onboarding, trained supervisors who give clear feedback, clear expectations and standards, and career pathways with training and advancement. They discuss why training succeeds only with leadership buy-in, clear business impact, and protected time, contrasting failed and successful rollout examples. Manja outlines a learning ecosystem (attitude, strategy, content/knowledge capture, trainers/technology, and skill practice with deliberate repetition). They cover apprenticeships as an industry responsibility, Manja’s path from violin teaching to trades training via her family’s restoration business, and close on thinking bigger.

00:00 Apprenticeship Wake Up Call

00:27 Meet Mana Horner

02:43 The Skilled Labor Cliff

05:52 Pass the Torch Book

06:54 Retention Talent Flywheel

13:10 Career Pathways That Work

17:38 Training Buy In Story

24:14 Learning Ecosystem Framework

32:19 Why Apprenticeships Matter

33:31 From Violin To Trades

39:29 Transferable Skills Mindset

41:10 Collecting Experiences Lesson

42:25 No Credentials Needed

43:20 Preboarding To Orientation

46:11 Role Onboarding Structure

47:25 AI And Constant Learning

48:29 Talent Choice And Culture

54:17 Let Kids Figure It Out

59:00 Skill Stacking Plan

01:03:35 School Mismatch Insights

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Download the free PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be 

00:00 - Meet Manya And The Trades Crisis

07:51 - Talent Flywheel For Keeping Great People

17:38 - Career Pathways That People Can Follow

25:16 - Learning Ecosystem And Capturing Field Knowledge

34:33 - Her Journey From Violin To Trades

45:34 - Onboarding That Wins In A Talent War

01:01:15 - Skill Stacking Through Deliberate Practice

01:08:35 - Fixing The Education And Career Mismatch

01:11:39 - Becoming The Promise You Are Meant

01:17:05 - Closing Thoughts And Ways To Engage

WEBVTT

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.599
But I do think it's our responsibility as an industry to take one for the team and bring on apprentices.

00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:07.040
We have no choice.

00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:13.519
We can't be the special favored golden child who doesn't take on apprentices because it's inconvenient.

00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:14.240
Sorry.

00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:14.720
Yeah.

00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:16.480
Not uh not appropriate.

00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:17.519
Then don't complain.

00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:17.920
Right.

00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:24.559
We all have to take on as many young people as we can, or we'll burn out.

00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:28.559
What is going on, LM family?

00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:29.679
Back again.

00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:34.240
This time, maybe not just this time, but we have a super awesome guest.

00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:39.759
She is the founder and CEO of Boost Learning Design.

00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:56.640
And the super magical, awesome thing, or maybe the connection between me, my heart, and our guest today is that she works with construction companies and trade unions that are growing faster than they keep up, which I do the same thing, but I'm not that clear about it.

00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:12.959
And the magical thing that she is doing that if you're out there in our industry, we absolutely need to do better, do gooder about is attracting people, training them, and then creating structures for sustainable retention.

00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:15.200
And that is her expertise.

00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:19.840
Her name is Mania Horner, and we're gonna get to learn all kinds of stuff from her.

00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:39.200
Now, if this is your first time here, you're listening to the Learnins and Missteps podcast, where you get to see amazing human beings just like you chart the path to how they are leaving this world better than they found it.

00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:45.280
My name's Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to know Miss Manya.

00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:46.799
Miss Manya, good morning.

00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:47.760
How are you?

00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:49.840
Hello, thank you for that warm welcome.

00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:51.040
And what a great bio.

00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:52.640
Did you write that or did I?

00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:54.879
I think it was a collaboration.

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You sent me some stuff, and then of course I gotta muddy it up.

00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:13.360
But I've got to like so I one, I want to reiterate your commitment, the work that you're doing to serve the construction industries and specifically the time that you're putting in with trades, is something I super, super appreciate.

00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:17.039
Some people have asked me, like, why do you interview people that are competitors?

00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:19.280
I'm like, bro, because I can't fix everything.

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We need a bunch of people out there to do this work, and you're out there doing it.

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So thank you so much for doing that.

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And I hope you continue to do it and grow and thrive because our industry needs it.

00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:43.599
Yeah, we're a little fractured and we have to work together a lot more than we have been because we're in a bit of a pickle, and it's gonna take a lot of us working together to get through and out.

00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:51.360
So this pickle, are you talking about the massive exodus of baby boobers from our industry?

00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:55.520
Yeah, I'm talking about the one in four retirement.

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And I'm a Canadian, but I work with companies all around North America.

00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:10.560
So I'm seeing and researching and staying on top of everything going on in the US and in Canada as it pertains to skilled labor and the workforce in general.

00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:26.240
So we're yeah, we're in a, I call it my 15-year plan to help solve this challenge in the time that I have that I want to dedicate to the industry and to work before I maybe think about what's next in my life.

00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:29.360
But it it's a big job and we do have to work together on it.

00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:30.479
Yeah, absolutely.

00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:38.240
You know, the interesting thing, I started my career in the trades back in 1995, right after I got out of high school.

00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:49.280
And the specific reason I said, oh, maybe I should stay here and make a career of this because I'm gonna make a lot of money in the future was because of the projections back then.

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Like just in the state of Texas, the average age of a journeyman plumber was like 46.

00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:59.120
And I'm in the apprenticeship program, like doing the orientation.

00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:04.879
I look around, 30 guys of my class, first year apprentices, they were all like 30-ish.

00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:05.439
Yeah.

00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:06.639
I was 18.

00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.280
I'm like, man, I'm gonna make some money.

00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:14.800
And so the back then the projections were it was just gonna get bleaker.

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Fast forward now, what are we 30 years later?

00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:18.800
Don't tell it.

00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:28.639
30 years later, and it's even more bleak because apparently nobody's done anything about it or not enough, which I don't really quite understand why.

00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:36.000
And I have to say, I spent a bunch of time researching this because I've written a book and it comes out in a couple of weeks.

00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:44.160
And and I spent two chapters just going back into history and going, how did we get in this mess?

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What were the drivers?

00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:46.240
Okay.

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What were the social factors?

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What was going on culturally, politically, what was happening from the podiums?

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Yeah, and where was the money flowing?

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I'm like a follow-the-money sort of gal.

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So I looked into that, and everybody was getting pushed into more of the IT, the knowledge service worker.

00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:10.319
Like they were, they were saying, we want knowledge workers and we want everyone in tech.

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And they pushed everyone through college and university instead of highlighting the trades as also an appropriate and really needed career path and work stream for people.

00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:23.839
It comes from a variety of ways.

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You can read more in depth, like the research that I found in my book.

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I don't know.

00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:32.639
I think it's quite interesting, but it but we can't just keep blaming and complaining.

00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:43.279
We're actually at a point where it's quite critical that those of us in positions to do something, and that's anybody who's leading and owning a company or anybody who's leading in a union.

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These are the people that have the opportunity to do something because we're the hirers.

00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:49.120
The hirers.

00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:51.279
I love it.

00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:52.160
Oh my god.

00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:52.480
Okay.

00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:57.759
So first, before it gets lost, is it too early to announce the title of your book?

00:05:58.079 --> 00:05:59.439
Oh no, we can announce it.

00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:05.360
It's called Past the Torch: A Rallying Call to Rescue the Future of Trades.

00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:07.519
I love it.

00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:12.800
Put a lot of work into that title, and even the book cover itself is a torch.

00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:14.240
It's a flare, I should say.

00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:16.800
Oh, because a flare is a distress signal.

00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:23.120
So I wanted it a distress signal and call people through this rallying call to take some action.

00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:23.600
Yeah.

00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:39.199
So again, I'm gonna gush on you a little bit because what I love about the work you're doing is there's it just seems to have happened here in the last two or three years where all of a sudden, or maybe it's just the people I'm connected to on LinkedIn, whatever.

00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:44.480
But all of a sudden, the social feeds are all about attracting the next generation.

00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:47.759
It's your social feed, it's the people you're following for sure.

00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:49.120
But I'm noticing that too.

00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:52.319
And I'm glad that there's more conversation happening.

00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:54.879
Yeah, no, I think it's valuable.

00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:08.240
However, most of those people have no idea of the next step or what it feels like, or how to, okay, let's get them in, but how the hell do we keep them?

00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:16.879
Because having been in the industry since, like I said, 1995, that is the biggest differentiator in the organizations that I serve.

00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:22.399
And I get to travel all over the US helping general contractors, subcontractors, et cetera.

00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:29.839
And the difference isn't attraction, they all have their little mechanisms and competitive salary and benefits.

00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:39.600
But it from my observation, the difference is how they treat their people and how they invest in their people, is what determines whether people stay with them.

00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:50.480
And so I'm wondering in your research, did that so obviously you have a business built on it, but in the research as it pertains to the book, did that pop up in a significant way?

00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:51.920
Absolutely.

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It definitely did.

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And what I've created is a framework around what does it take to keep people?

00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:03.360
And I called my talent flywheel.

00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:05.360
We use this with our clients.

00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:13.680
But the key to building a team, once you get people in, you're now building a team, building a crew.

00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.480
And so there's a few things that have to happen.

00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:19.120
It starts from day one on the job.

00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:22.399
So your onboarding really matters a lot.

00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:29.519
That actually statistically will retain people longer if you have a good onboarding experience.

00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:30.240
Okay.

00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.519
Second is the supervisors, managers, and leaders.

00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:43.759
You have to have well-trained, capable supervisors, managers, leaders because most people leave the leadership, not necessarily the company.

00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:44.879
Agreed.

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You need to have very clear expectations and standards and low tolerance for crap coming from the field, coming from supervisors.

00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:04.799
So as a leader, the guy running the company or the woman running the company, you have to set expectations, set the standards and hold people to it.

00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:07.360
Believe it or not, people actually do like boundaries.

00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:08.000
Yes.

00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:15.519
Part of the supervisor skill set that has to be developed is also the ability to give great feedback.

00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:21.840
The next generation wants to hear what they're doing well and where they can do better.

00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:26.799
They're actually pretty open in a lot of ways to that kind of conversation.

00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:40.639
So giving your supervisors and developing the skill set to talk to people well, clearly and is important because the Gen Z or the Alpha, they're not interested in getting yelled at.

00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:42.559
They grew up a lot softer.

00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:43.919
And it's not a bad thing.

00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:45.039
No, not at all.

00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:47.039
Oh, I'm so tough, I get yelled at.

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I can handle it.

00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:49.200
That doesn't give you a badge.

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Good for you.

00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:55.120
So there are a few things when you're building a team, and I can take it a step further.

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If you really want to retain people long term, you have to provide training so they always feel like they're advancing.

00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:12.240
That's one of the boomer complaints about the young people is they don't like the fact that they're so hungry for running the company within three years.

00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:20.320
I'm like that as a sign that they actually care and give them the training, show them the career pathways, give them advancement.

00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:20.799
Yes.

00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:25.759
And hold a vision in your company that's big enough to hold their personal vision.

00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:26.240
Yeah.

00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:34.559
You know, nobody wants to stick around if they don't see an opportunity to grow and make a difference and be part of something that matters.

00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:37.840
And actually, that really matters to Gen Z workers.

00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:43.279
So my framework, and if I could show a visual, I mean, I have it, and we can always link it maybe.

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Yeah.

00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:50.559
But it's important because if you want to recruit, build, grow your team, and then really build your company brands.

00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:57.919
So you're the kind of company that people are clamoring to work for, you have to offer certain things.

00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.240
And at the hub of that is leadership.

00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:08.720
You have to make the kind of decisions that will impact your business in the way that you're creating these kind of frameworks and culture.

00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:16.799
So that was a bit of a lengthy description, but happy to share that image because I do believe it's and I break this down in the book as well.

00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:19.679
So I did include that image in all the description.

00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:20.559
I love it.

00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:26.639
So A, yes, let's make sure we have a link so people can go and download that thing.

00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:34.240
Because I know there's a lot of really forward-thinking leaders out there, people-centered leaders, that are working to figure it out.

00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:35.759
Because it's not easy, right?

00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:36.240
Sure.

00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:39.919
Onboarding, feedback, career pathways, leadership.

00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:40.559
Okay.

00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:43.519
Yeah, those are all big projects.

00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:49.759
We're going to do the LM Family Member shout-out.

00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:51.200
And this one goes to Mr.

00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:59.360
Rusty Chambers, who took the time to leave a little review on the Google, because now I've got Google reviews, which is super fancy.

00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:02.399
Rusty says, good and energetic.

00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:10.320
It makes you think about how good you can be to everyone else if you spend a little time on you.

00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:14.159
Which Rusty, I'm super happy that message made it through.

00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:29.440
And folks, if you're wondering what he's talking about, he was one of the victims, recent victims, in the Time Management for Construction workshop, where we're trying to figure out how you can better prioritize yourself so that you can better serve the people you care about.

00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:32.399
Folks, you already know I love attention.

00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:36.799
The reviews, the shares, the thumbs up, the stars, all of the above.

00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:45.679
Please feed them to me because one, it makes me feel good, but two, it gives me an opportunity to shout you out in a future episode.

00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:48.720
Exactly.

00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:56.799
There's a whole lot, like behaviors, mental models, all these things that need nurturing and sustainability.

00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:01.200
So one thing, so I've got there's three things I want to get into now.

00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:04.080
We talked about onboarding, talked about feedback.

00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:09.919
You said a bunch of stuff, but the things that are pinging in my head is onboarding feedback and career pathways.

00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:15.039
So let me start with career pathways, if you don't mind.

00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:15.440
Okay.

00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:25.039
And this is more me just sharing my opinion, and I want you to slap me if I'm wrong, or gauge the strength of your slap based on how wrong I am.

00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:26.080
How's that, Manya?

00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:26.720
Sure.

00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:27.679
Yeah, that sounds good.

00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:30.720
I'll try to get my virtual slap ready.

00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:32.000
I love it.

00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:41.919
So I've been on multiple teams with, and I get to see a lot like you got get to see behind the curtains when we go in and serve the people that we serve.

00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:46.720
And luckily, a lot of the folks that I work with do have career pathways, right?

00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:52.320
Like they have a map of this is step one, step two, step three, step four.

00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:55.360
That's in my head, that's pretty basic.

00:13:55.519 --> 00:14:00.320
And that's easy because you're just saying all you're giving job titles, right?

00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:01.360
You're giving rules.

00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:02.240
Yes.

00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:08.559
The next layer I've seen, not so much, is qualifications, CDQs, career qualification.

00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:20.879
Like these are the things that you, the skills that you need to build and excel at in order to prep you for the next role, or to say, I'm killing it here, I'm ready for more to take the next thing, right?

00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:23.279
Which is, I think, a lot better, right?

00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:27.120
Because it's not just subjective interpretation.

00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:29.679
It's no, these are the things now.

00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:35.440
Where I see the break at is okay, you got the pathway, you've got the CDQs.

00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:46.879
What are the behaviors and the systems that facilitate the development of those career-defining qualifications?

00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:55.679
So the question then is do you see that as a weak point, or maybe it's part of the services that you provide to help people?

00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:57.600
Okay, let's define it, map it.

00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:05.919
But now what are you going to do organizationally to facilitate your people actually walking the ladder?

00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:06.559
Yeah.

00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:08.000
So the answer is yes.

00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:21.679
We do that as a service, but let's talk a little bit about the things that take it from a paper-based career path with some standards or some qualifications that are needed, and then what's the next level?

00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.759
So, one, let's just talk about the leadership support.

00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.080
Everything happens when leaders are on board.

00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:29.759
So that's for sure important.

00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:38.240
You need to have leaders who buy into the idea of career progression, and they need to be having career conversations annually, semi-annually.

00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:39.679
Hey, where do you see yourself going?

00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:44.000
What do you what would you love to be able to accomplish within our company?

00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:46.559
We see you and we think you're, you know, awesome.

00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:48.080
You show up, you do the things.

00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:49.279
What do you want?

00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:56.639
So that's when I mentioned you need to have a vision in your company that's big enough to hold the personal visions of the people who work for you.

00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:01.279
I've heard everything from I really want to be able to drop my kid off to school.

00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:05.759
Okay, how can we maybe delay your start time, but you're gonna be working later?

00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:06.799
Or can we work?

00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:10.080
Can we do four 12 hours instead of whatever?

00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:17.360
Okay, you get to now brainstorm some solutions to retain that great person and help facilitate the vision for their life.

00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:18.960
So that's just a small example.

00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:23.759
One may be I need to be able to earn an extra$15,000 this next year.

00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:24.879
What's that gonna look like?

00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:26.639
Let's look at some pathways for you.

00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:31.840
Maybe it's a new role with more responsibility, maybe it's overtime, maybe it's I don't know, whatever.

00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:32.639
Whatever, yeah.

00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:38.960
Maybe they're taking on some training because they're really awesome and you want to use them in some different ways on a Saturday to do training.

00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:39.519
Yes.

00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:40.720
Get creative.

00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:42.480
But it starts with the conversation.

00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:49.200
So leaders need to have you need to provide your leaders with the structure so they can have those kind of conversations.

00:16:49.679 --> 00:17:04.400
And also the second piece of that is a mechanism for viewing and managing performance, not as a corny performance management tool, but as a really structured, hey, here's what you've done really well this year.

00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.680
Here's what I think we could see you improve on.

00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:15.200
And in that conversation, you get to look ahead at the year and go, here's how we're gonna help you develop the skills that are gonna take you to that next role.

00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:17.680
So it's a bit of a it's a bit of planning.

00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:18.319
Oh, yeah.

00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:29.200
Um, it's having the conversations, and then it's having the quarterly or semi-annual touch points so that you you didn't tell them something and then you forgot or never followed through.

00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:30.960
Oh, yeah.

00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:32.720
So that's one system.

00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.279
I've done it wrong so many times, Manya.

00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:36.240
That's okay.

00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:37.279
We all have.

00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:38.640
Oh, okay.

00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:47.839
So I want to describe a leader, and I'd like to know if you give them one thumbs up, two thumbs up, or just thumbs down.

00:17:48.319 --> 00:18:05.039
Now, for a period of time, back when I had a real job, there was a period of time where I was training unofficially, like me and the guys would meet at the bar or at lunch or whatever, and I was showing them how I planned my work and how I interpreted the budget and whatever.

00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.799
Eventually that turned into my job, which was amazing.

00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:14.640
And so the first leader said, okay, because I was gonna leave the company, right?

00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.759
Similar to, I'm like, hey, look, I paid off all my debt.

00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.039
I was a superintendent at the time for mechanical contractor.

00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:34.240
And I'm like, man, I discovered that if I stayed in that job, sure the money was fantastic, but I was never gonna be able to serve the way I really wanted to serve and help my people, my team, my friends.

00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:42.960
And so I said, I need to find work that's more fulfilling because I was sick and tired of the meetings and the budgets and the arguments, because they were all the same all the time.

00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.240
Anyways, fast forward, they said, Okay, no, we don't want you to leave.

00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:49.119
I was gonna go take a job with the school district for 11 bucks.

00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:54.319
And what it was like a man, 80% pay cut, whatever it was.

00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:55.920
And they said, What are you doing?

00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.160
What if we just let you be a full-time trainer?

00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.480
And I said, Okay, what do you want me to train?

00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.720
They said, The thing that you're doing, just make it official.

00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:03.599
Okay, fine.

00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:04.960
So we blah, blah, blah.

00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:05.920
We start doing it.

00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:12.240
The leader at the time said, I'm gonna send an email to all the foreman superintendents and project managers.

00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:14.240
This was specifically for foreman.

00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:19.519
And you're gonna put a schedule together for the training, and I'm gonna make it mandatory.

00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:24.240
So he sent the email and said, Mandatory, foreman need to be in this, and we broke it up.

00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:25.839
So, two questions.

00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.519
That action of him sending the mandatory email.

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.599
What do you what is your are you thumbs up, thumbs down on it?

00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.759
And the second question is, what do you think actually happened?

00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:38.480
Wow.

00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:38.960
Okay.

00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:39.920
I don't know.

00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:51.519
I think thumbs up is okay, depending on the culture already of what training like depending on the culture of training at the organization already.

00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:55.200
So when I say that, what is the leadership attitude towards training?

00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:57.920
Is everything really an authoritarian?

00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.279
Was there a lot of options for training and people were invited?

00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:04.559
I don't know the culture of training or the attitude towards it.

00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.599
I think that should impact my thumbs up or thumbs down.

00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:19.759
I hate to be wishy-washy, but if it was on a whim and it wasn't supporting all those foreman, either their performance or what the business needed to change, then it's not great.

00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:24.400
One thing that we often consider with our clients is what is the business impact to this training?

00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:25.759
Like, why are you trying to do it?

00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:27.599
You got to start with a reason.

00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:28.000
Yep.

00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.319
It can't just be a knee-jerk reaction.

00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:32.240
So, what are you trying to improve?

00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:34.079
What kind of skills are you trying to develop?

00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:39.200
Or are you trying to get everybody online aligned with a certain behavior or message or habit?

00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:42.000
And then in that case, that's your call as a leader.

00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:50.960
You're gonna say, hey, everybody, we're doing this training for this reason, and we're gonna pay you to be there, and we want everyone to be there and make it make it a thing.

00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:53.920
Um, nobody loves to have to do something by force.

00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:58.799
So you'll get better buy-in if you can establish the why, what's in it for them.

00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:00.079
Excellent answer.

00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.400
The what happened was Yeah.

00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.559
So I was gonna say that leads to the what happened.

00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:05.920
You probably did not have buy-in.

00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:17.680
We did not have buy-in, and attendance was sparse because the idea was for the foreman to leave the job early, a day or two a week, to be at the office to go through the training.

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:25.359
It magically, every day we had training, we had emergencies on the job side and inspections and deliveries.

00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:32.559
And so the superintendents and the PMs were the ones telling the foreman, like, no, just go to the next one, just go to the next one.

00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:34.000
And so it was less than awesome.

00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:35.200
We'll just say that.

00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:39.200
The leader tried high five for trying, but it was leaks.

00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:40.480
It's okay.

00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:49.200
High five for trying, but if you've never rolled out a whole bunch of training initiatives, then you're gonna just do it a quick and dirty way.

00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:50.799
Yes, yes, totally.

00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:55.920
So then fast forward a year or two, new leader comes in.

00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.400
He says, All right, Jess, I know you've been doing this training thing.

00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:04.960
We're gonna make it official, we're gonna make it During the day on the clock, half a day for eight weeks.

00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.759
The guys are gonna get paid, they're gonna come off the job, and I'm laughing, like, yeah, that's cute, man.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:10.960
He's like, What do you?

00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.720
I said, Look, bro, here's we've this is how it's been going.

00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:16.640
And I gave him the scenario I just described.

00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.319
He's like, Oh, that's easy.

00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:29.119
I'm gonna do, I'm gonna roll this out and have my conversations with the general super, like, with the superintendents, with the project managers, and make it ultra clear the reason we're doing this, da da da da.

00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:35.519
So there was some runway of him having these conversations, helping people understand like this is why we're doing it.

00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:41.599
The margin loss that we're losing was uh largely due to a lack of planning and being in a hyper-reactive state.

00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:42.640
And so blah, blah, blah.

00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:52.880
He did the front end work, and then he said, Okay, now what I need from you, Jess, is I need a list of whoever misses your class.

00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:54.640
And I said, Man, I'm not gonna do that.

00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:56.480
Like, they're my friends, you know what I mean?

00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:58.000
I'm not gonna be tattled.

00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:05.680
He's saying, No, no, I don't care about the guy that didn't make it to class, I want the name of their superintendent and project manager.

00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.119
And I said, No.

00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:14.000
He said, Yeah, because I'm gonna go have a talk with them because they need to make them available for this training.

00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:28.160
And if they can't let go of a foreman for half a day and cover for half a day, either that foreman is underpaid, or those PM and superintendent are slacking and they need some different kind of attention.

00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:29.440
Yeah, fair enough.

00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:29.680
Yeah.

00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:34.240
If everything falls apart because somebody's not there for four hours, that's not great.

00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:35.440
Yeah, yeah.

00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:36.400
And guess what?

00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:37.440
It was amazing.

00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:44.400
People showed up at the end of the year, our financial performance was dramatically better.

00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:52.720
And of course, there were other things that happened, but the primary thing from my perspective was he got involved in the communication and made it super, super clear.

00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.319
Leaders, superintendent, project managers, this is not an option.

00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:03.359
You got to find a way to get your people in the training because those two parties were the ones complaining about the foreman being underskilled.

00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.599
It's like you're complaining about them, but you're not creating the conditions for them to upskill.

00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:09.279
Here's the deal.

00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:10.240
Exactly.

00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:11.039
Yeah.

00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:12.720
No, that's great.

00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:14.319
I love that.

00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:15.440
And it is important.

00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:25.359
We talk about our learning ecosystem and the five components of the learning ecosystem that are important to note.

00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:26.079
Okay.

00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:31.440
I'm just pulling them up because my brain doesn't always I'm with you, sister.

00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.480
So the first is the attitude, what we just talked about.

00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:38.319
Like, what's the culture of learning or the attitude towards it?

00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.559
Is it like eh, there's a course, but just don't bother?

00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.400
So that's like the attitude that that's driven from the top.

00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:51.920
The second piece of the learning ecosystem is the course, is the training strategy.

00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:53.599
So, what is the overall strategy?

00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:54.640
Why are we doing it?

00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:55.920
What are we trying to train?

00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:03.279
What are what kind of levers are we trying to pull so that we can move this company in a certain direction?

00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:15.599
Because at the end of the day, training is there to support the goals of the business, not just the goals of the government or department of labor or health and safety compliance.

00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:23.839
It's there also to support everybody's growth so that you can operate better as a company as a whole and operate better together.

00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:26.960
So that's important, is like what is the overall strategy?

00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:30.559
Because you don't just want to start chucking random courses at people.

00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:32.799
You need to have a bit of a game plan.

00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:33.519
Yep.

00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:36.880
And then the next layer is your content and your courses.

00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:46.960
And that's where in my book I talk a lot about the knowledge capture because we are losing such a lot of deep expertise from these retiring people.

00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:48.480
And it's a shame.

00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:50.559
We don't want to actually lose all that.

00:25:50.640 --> 00:26:01.039
And if it hasn't been documented or videoed or captured, it's a labor-intensive process, but we recommend a bunch of different ways in our knowledge capture engine.

00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:01.359
Yeah.

00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:06.640
And that turns into information that you can then build training on.

00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:07.359
Yes.

00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.079
So your content in courses is key.

00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:16.720
And that all ties into your training strategy, which ties into your career pathways.

00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:24.240
And then there's who are your trainers and what's your technology that's going to deliver this information to people?

00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:32.079
Because it can be done in video repositories, you can have checklists, you can have operating procedures and processes written down.

00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:36.160
You can have trainers that come in and your own trainers that deliver.

00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.240
There's lots of ways, and AI is just making that even more interesting.

00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:40.799
Yeah.

00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:46.319
Um, and then I include always another layer, which is the skill practice.

00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:52.880
I will stand on a soapbox forever and ever and say training is not knowledge dumping.

00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:58.880
Training, that's like a little piece, but the skill development, and we're in the skilled trades.

00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:00.480
So it's even more so important.

00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:07.440
And I'll give you a little background on why I stand so heavily on skill being the most crucial piece.

00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.119
I actually was a violin teacher in my early career.

00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:18.720
From about 16 to my early 30s, I taught violin and I have actually a music teaching degree as well.

00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.519
So I can teach in high school if I want and all those things.

00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:23.599
I never did, but I can.

00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:24.319
Yeah.

00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:29.359
So with music practice, you're actually just trying to develop skill in every student.

00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:39.519
So there's a lot that I take from developing musicians that I bring to the developing skilled trades and craftsmen because it's the same principles that apply.

00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:46.559
So there's a bunch about my methodology, which isn't it doesn't belong to me, but I call it deliberate practice.

00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:47.039
Yep.

00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:56.799
So when you're building training, you want to make opportunities for especially your young people to deliberately practice core skills in those first few years.

00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:03.519
And it's not just like giving them exposure once on the job and then three months later again and hoping they've recalled.

00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.759
It's actually tied to brain science.

00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:09.440
Like you've got to give repetition.

00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:18.160
So there's a whole bunch of rules around deliberate practice, but those five pieces are the elements of that learning ecosystem.

00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:23.440
And then your people are the beneficiaries and they're the participants in it.

00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:24.960
And so they matter a lot.

00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:36.000
You've got to make sure that everything is appropriate for your people, their age, their generation, whether they're on the job and you've made accommodations for them to step away to do the training.

00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:46.000
You've actually carved out time in their work week so that they can do the practice on the job in the corner on scraps before they come and do it on the other real materials.

00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:47.759
And there's a lot to it.

00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:53.200
And I get that what I'm saying is holy shit, Munya, we don't have time for this.

00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:54.480
I know.

00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:57.440
That's why you're all leaving it behind.

00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:07.519
So that's that's really, I think, the benefit of working with people like you, Jess Jesse, or like with our company, because we help take that stuff off your plate.

00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:15.279
You're not trying to do legal, you're not trying to do your bookkeeping, or I hope there's certain aspects of the business that at a certain size you got to start out.

00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:15.920
Yes.

00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:16.880
Oh, it's time.

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:25.519
I've got one of my clients who happens to be the boss I was talking about earlier that came in and said, You're gonna do this four hours.

00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.400
I support him at the new company he's working at.

00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:32.480
And he's like, Yes, one of the things I love about you, and I'm thinking I'm gonna get a compliment.

00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:36.000
He's if revenue goes to the crapper, I could just cut you.

00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:43.279
I'm like, but I like business-wise, he doesn't have to carry me and my in terms of cost to the business.

00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:47.440
He doesn't have to carry my insurance and my benefits and all of that.

00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:56.000
When things tighten up, he can stop the spend and they can continue executing on their core work until things get better.

00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.359
And so I think it's an added benefit for two things.

00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:02.559
Like short, I'll say this short view is okay.

00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:05.839
I don't have to hire this dummy and put him on payroll.

00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:10.880
At whatever point we could just terminate the contract or terminate the services and let them move on.

00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:12.160
That's good.

00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:22.799
The other thing, like you said, is trying to build a learning and development team within the organization is very expensive.

00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:29.039
Yeah, and that's more for when you're in the hundreds to thousand employees.

00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:29.359
Yes.

00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:40.480
When you're in the low, you know, low quantity, yeah, you're gonna patch things together and then you're gonna get to a point where it's hard to manage and you might want to outsource.

00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.480
And we have jumped on this bandwagon of calling ourselves fractional.

00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:49.279
That whole thing where you hire a fractional CMO or a fractional CFO.

00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:51.839
We're a fractional HR team.

00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.319
So we have several people in the company that do the fractional HR.

00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:11.680
So they help with the hiring and the recruiting and the interviewing and um the senior stuff, like how do we terminate well and document properly and compensation packages and all that HR stuff that you start to realize, oh, I actually don't know that.

00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:16.319
And I'm using my lawyer a little too frequently and it's costing me a lot.

00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:24.799
So the fractional HR side is cool and it's really smart if you're in that 25 employee to maybe 120 employee.

00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:29.359
And then you get to a point where you know you really should hire some internal HR.

00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:42.880
But then on the leader, the LD side, so the learning and development or your training department, that's the other cool thing is the fractional training is neat because we can help with the strategy and the what software should we use?

00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:45.279
And can you make us the courses?

00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:47.920
And you can you come on site and capture the video?

00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:54.640
Yes and yes, because I've got a team of six people that do all that stuff behind the scenes to get you a finished product.

00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:58.799
And it's a lot if you have to hire that yourself and piece all that together.

00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:00.319
It's oh yeah.

00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.880
Um, and we have seven apprenticeship program builds this year.

00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:05.759
Nice.

00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:09.839
That is a huge amount of bits and pieces.

00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:12.160
That's a lot of bits and pieces.

00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:13.920
My head is scrambled just thinking about it.

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:19.039
Thankfully, I have good team and project managers because that's a lot of bits and pieces.

00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:32.319
Yeah, and there's a mountain of administrative work associated with maintaining a DOL approved, Department of Labor approved apprenticeship program that I thought we're gonna do this in-house.

00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:35.920
And then when I started digging into it, I'm like, ugh, no, we're not.

00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:57.279
This is too much work, like just the administrative part was like this is where I think companies are falling flat and where we have to keep encouraging and promoting because although it's a pain to have to handle apprenticeships, the paperwork, all of that stuff, and the what if I invest all this time and energy and then they leave?

00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:57.599
Yeah.

00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:04.880
Or what if I can only provide half of the skill set and training of the apprenticeship and then they have to go somewhere else?

00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:11.359
There's a lot of that, but I do think it's our responsibility as an industry to take one for the team and bring on apprentices.

00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:19.279
We have no choice, we can't be the special favored golden child who doesn't take on apprentices because it's inconvenient.

00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:20.079
Sorry.

00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:23.279
Yeah, not uh not appropriate, then don't complain.

00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:23.680
Right.

00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:30.720
We all have to take on as many young people as we can, or we'll burn out 100%.

00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:37.440
So you mentioned the violin, and I know you're serving the trades now, skilled trade.

00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:39.920
How did what's the connection?

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.440
How did you go from violin, music, education to what you're doing now?

00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:51.359
Was it a pathway somebody, a career pathway somebody put in front of you that you said, that's what I'm gonna do?

00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.440
No, it's I think it's interesting.

00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:57.759
So I grew up in a family business of construction and restoration.

00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:01.359
So my dad started his company in 1990.

00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:05.599
He had learned carpentry and framing and custom home building.

00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:09.920
Nice, started his own business in 1990 because my older sister was sick.

00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:14.639
So he had to spend some time, probably about eight months with her in the hospital.

00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:15.840
And she's fine now.

00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.920
She's a mom kid, so she recovered, but that was a tough bit for our family.

00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:31.840
So he started his business, and I grew up at the dinner table hearing about all the clients and all the challenges with the government and all the regulations, the financial stuff.

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:34.239
I heard all of that at the dinner table.

00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:40.559
He had, I'm one of five kids, so he had all of us working for him at different times.

00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:50.000
We were all in the shop from the time we could stand smelling the shavings and working with the tools and having our own little ear protection.

00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:57.760
I think we probably lost more hammers and saws than he would care to admit because we built everything as kids.

00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:02.159
We took all the stuff, built forts, and so we were always tinkering, dabbling.

00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:07.519
But then in our teens, we actually started being part of official crews.

00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:12.000
So I had a chance to work for about four to five summers.

00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:15.440
I was trying to, I was going back to recall all the projects I had done.

00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:22.079
Yeah, we did a lot of restoration work, so historic buildings, designated heritage sites.

00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:29.519
He ended up becoming recognized in Canada as a major wood consultant for heritage buildings.

00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:41.440
So I had a lot of that kind of exposure on the sites, learning alongside European craftsmen and really masters of the trade in restoration techniques.

00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:58.079
So I've done everything from glazing, hundreds of sash and case windows with old glass, cutting the glass, re-putty glazing, a lot of paint restoration, woodwork like spindle turning on the lathe and replica parts.

00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:01.599
I got to do a lot of really neat stuff in the restoration side.

00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:07.360
So I call myself I call myself a tradesperson because I can do a lot of cool shit.

00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:07.840
Yeah.

00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:09.920
And it's quite specific.

00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:11.599
Well, this is the funny thing.

00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:16.800
Uh I was a girl and I was really smart in school.

00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:24.239
So my pathway was actually I had a full academic scholarship to my undergrad degree.

00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:27.440
So that was just the way that my career went.

00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.480
It was like, you are really good grades.

00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:31.599
I was a good student.

00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:37.119
Yes, I had all this cool stuff on the side, but it was never, hey, do you want to take over the family business?

00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:37.760
Right.

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:39.119
That wasn't even a thing.

00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:40.079
I also have two brothers.

00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:42.239
So one actually has taken over the business.

00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:42.719
Yep.

00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:44.480
And then my other brother's an engineer.

00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:46.320
So they went more in that route.

00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:52.559
But yeah, I ended up in business degrees, education degrees.

00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:59.199
And so I had a professional career in curriculum development and um corporate training.

00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:05.519
So it was about nine years ago when I was walking with my dad down a street.

00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:15.199
We had just had lunch, and we were looking ahead, and there was this heritage building, a really prominent one, and there was just a cloud of red brick dust billowing everywhere.

00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:15.599
Yeah.

00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.000
So these guys were grinding the lead paint off of the brick.

00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.599
And I was like, what the actual F are these guys doing?

00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.760
Like you just knew it wasn't the right method for removing the paint.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:28.239
Right.

00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:32.400
And I said to my dad, okay, we gotta do something.

00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:36.960
We gotta do something about this because there's so many companies that have untrained workers.

00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:39.679
Yep, they don't know the methods that are appropriate.

00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:43.039
At this time, I was referring to heritage buildings specifically.

00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:49.280
And I was like, Dad, you're a you're the guy, you're one of the subject matter experts in the country on this.

00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:50.719
We should do something.

00:37:51.039 --> 00:38:02.800
That kind of started the ball rolling in trades-based training, and now uh that's all I do, and that's the mission that I'm working towards is capturing this knowledge from senior people before they go.

00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:15.599
Love it, transferring that knowledge to the next generation through the best training and helping companies grow by helping them recruit, retain, and train people so that they can all be efficient.

00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:24.559
Like I get what it takes to run a company of 25 people, how hard that can be, and the kind of mindset you need to have as that leader and owner.

00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:39.119
I've got a special, I think a really special seat at the table because I'm I get to to solve not only the company owner's growth goals, but also I get to help the next generation worker do their best.

00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:43.360
So I get to kill two really awesome birds with one stone.

00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:44.159
I love it.

00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:45.119
A hundred percent.

00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:47.760
I'm with you, and uh that's part of my struggle.

00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:49.039
One beautiful story.

00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:56.639
I love the connection and the weave of starting off with your dad and then you know, university, because of course it's what everybody's supposed to do.

00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:01.599
And then you're like, okay, I acquired, I had this skill set, I acquired this other skill set and insight.

00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:04.000
And then how about I mash them together?

00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:11.519
I know that's all and then the skill development piece from 15 or so years of music training and teaching.

00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:16.320
You learn how to become a great coach and trainer and skill person, right?

00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:23.760
Because you have to, you can't play the instrument for your students, you have to help them use that tool to create something great.

00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.280
And we're in the exact same position now, it's just different tools.

00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:28.239
100%.

00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:29.599
Oh my.

00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:36.159
So what I want the LM family member out there to take away is keep an open mind, right?

00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:46.639
Observe and watch what's going on because sometimes it feels or it could feel that the skill set you developed early on through university or whatever, you may not be using it.

00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:53.039
It may, you may, it may feel like it's pigeonholed into one sector or one area.

00:39:53.440 --> 00:40:00.559
But over years, decades, I'll say, you start discovering that, man, these skills are transferable.

00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:11.440
Like teaching, coaching somebody on how to play the violin, that skill set of getting people to the to elevate in their performance is a transferable skill.

00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:13.360
Like you just said it beautifully.

00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.320
The violin was a tool then, now we're using different tools.

00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:23.840
Same thing to education or curriculum design, like it all can be woven together to provide greater value to folks.

00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:31.440
And I say that, Manya, because I know some people that are like, yeah, but this is the degree I have, and this is all I really know.

00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:35.119
I'm like, okay, let's look at what else, what other circles you use.

00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.239
Yeah, what else in your life or world or your experiences?

00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:42.719
Military experience, first responder, sports.

00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:50.079
Well, there's a lot of people who exit some of those careers because they're high burnout and kind of more for young.

00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:50.400
Right.

00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:52.559
And then you get to what's my next thing.

00:40:52.639 --> 00:41:01.360
I think it's a really awesome transition into skilled trades because you bring a lot of that team culture and you have to have each other's backs in the trades.

00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:04.079
You have to know you can rely on each other.

00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.920
So it's there's a lot of really cool synergies depending on where you come from.

00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:13.199
And I had a really neat, no, I had a a moment young.

00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:21.440
I was maybe in my early 20s, and I was listening to a guest speaker, and he was the head of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment in Toronto.

00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:23.840
They're the he runs the Maple Leafs.

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:24.239
Wow.

00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:35.519
He runs all the concert venue, he runs the big, at the time it was called the Sky Dome, like with all of the sports, like tons of teams, the Raptors, the Maple, the Blue Jays, like tons of teams, right?

00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:37.360
So he was responsible for running this.

00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:39.519
He was the president of this organization.

00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:41.280
And I asked him a question.

00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:43.280
I said, and I was 22.

00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:46.079
I said, How did you become qualified for this job?

00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:47.679
Very naive question.

00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:51.119
And he said, That's such an excellent question.

00:41:51.440 --> 00:42:01.760
He said, Once I ran a restaurant, and once I owned a sports team, and once I ran a this and once I ran a that, and he said, and guess what?

00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:04.000
Now I run all of those at once.

00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:08.000
And I thought, thank you for being generous and not thinking I'm a total.

00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.519
But it's true, all and so I've always kept that thought in mind.

00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:23.840
Like you're just on a journey collecting experiences and skill sets that one day are all gonna mix together into something totally unique, and you have no idea how that will look, and that's okay.

00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:25.599
Oh, I love that.

00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:26.960
One, the question, right?

00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:29.119
Like, how do you become qualified to do that?

00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:31.760
There's no credential for that.

00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:39.119
I get similar, like, how did you like what sort of what sort of certifications and trainings did you get to do the business you're doing now?

00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:43.840
If you didn't know this, they'll let any damn fool start a business and start a podcast.

00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:45.039
Like, you don't need a certificate.

00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:47.119
No, you get to just do it.

00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:50.239
And but you've got all these like ridiculous guys on YouTube.

00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:53.039
My favorite is like handyman riz.

00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:54.079
I just made that up.

00:42:54.159 --> 00:42:58.079
But you've got all these randos on YouTube making content.

00:42:58.239 --> 00:42:59.039
How about you?

00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:02.400
If you're such an expert in your thing, why don't you make content?

00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:04.880
How about you train the next gen easy?

00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:06.880
Like you need two cameras and a mic.

00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:07.440
Let's go.

00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:08.159
Simple.

00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:09.760
So why not you?

00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:11.199
I'm with you.

00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:12.000
There you go.

00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:15.679
Manya said, LM family member, why not you?

00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:17.679
We got to see that stuff coming out.

00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:19.599
Oh, I'm loving this conversation.

00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:21.039
Okay, I'm curious.

00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:22.800
Do you see this happen out there?

00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:49.039
What I see often, very high frequency, is when people, when organizations talk about onboarding, what they're really describing is how to get somebody into the company, give them their laptop and their hard hat and their PP, like just give them the things that they need that are relevant to being an employee with the company.

00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:54.480
It's almost never relative to their specific role.

00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:59.599
And in my head, there's two layers there's onboarding, like the corporate company onboarding.

00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:02.159
And then there's positional onboarding.

00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:04.159
Am I getting that wrong?

00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:07.000
You're right.

00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:08.840
So there's actually a few stages.

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:11.559
So let's think about it as the pre-boarding.

00:45:11.720 --> 00:45:12.760
That's what we talked about.

00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:18.199
So, like from the you're hired, you signed a contract to your first day.

00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:20.440
That I would consider pre-boarding.

00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:26.519
So that's we've got your send me all of your health and safety certifications and send me all of your licenses.

00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:28.920
And oh, by the way, what size are you?

00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:30.840
Because we're going to have PPE for you.

00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:32.519
And don't forget your work boots.

00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:35.240
So it's it's your that's your pre-boarding.

00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:38.599
That's all the stuff that happens before they get to work.

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:45.000
And then onboarding starts, I'd say orientation is a few days in that first week.

00:45:45.240 --> 00:45:49.000
And that's like, how great can you make their orientation?

00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:58.840
I challenge you to make it great because you know the first day when you go somewhere and you're showing up and you're a little bit nervous, you're a bit hesitant because everything's new.

00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:00.440
You don't know, is this the right door?

00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:03.000
Can I park here or is someone gonna yell at me?

00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:05.480
Where do I hang my shit up?

00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:07.320
Where's the bathroom?

00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:09.720
Do we make our own coffee or bring our own coffee?

00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:15.240
There's all these questions culturally that you don't want to get wrong because you don't want to look like an idiot.

00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:15.800
Yep.

00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:20.599
So that kind of stuff is actually you can set a lot of those expectations.

00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:23.880
So somebody's first day, they show up and feel really good.

00:46:24.199 --> 00:46:24.440
Yeah.

00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:25.800
Doesn't take a whole lot.

00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:29.400
You could make a video, you could have a checklist, like anything.

00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:39.240
You want them leaving that first day, going home to their significant other or their mom or whoever, and saying, they say, Hey, how was your first day?

00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.240
And they go, That was awesome.

00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:43.159
I'm really excited to work here.

00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:44.599
I think I made the right choice.

00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:47.800
Because don't forget, they have a lot of choice right now.

00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:48.920
Oh, yes.

00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:52.679
Okay, so you're not God's gift to them as much as you think you are.

00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:53.159
Right.

00:46:53.240 --> 00:46:54.679
Okay, there's choice.

00:46:54.920 --> 00:47:06.119
So that first week of orientation to this is the company, and hey, you're gonna be using this equipment, and here's your logins and keys and whatever, all that good stuff.

00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:07.559
That's all important.

00:47:07.720 --> 00:47:10.920
Here's your vision and mission of the company, and here's our policies.

00:47:11.000 --> 00:47:11.880
You got to sign off.

00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:13.720
So there's all that sort of stuff.

00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:16.360
But then there's the okay, here's your role.

00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:26.760
Here's your first 30 days, here's your first 60 days, here's your first 90 days, what we expect for things we want you to hit, milestones we want you to hit in those first three months.

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:30.760
Um, here's how here's your mentor, here's who you're gonna be checking in with.

00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:38.039
We're gonna be meeting with you every you know, two weeks for a one-on-one, and we're gonna check in how things are going, give you feedback.

00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:40.039
Like you gotta have a structure for this.

00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:40.440
Yes.

00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:46.199
So I do have a little freebie if anyone wants, they can download on my website.

00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:53.320
We've got an onboarding checklist, um, and it's generic, but it's a good launching point if you don't have at least this stuff.

00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:56.440
Get that in place before you start making it super jazzy.

00:47:56.679 --> 00:47:59.240
But um you can go to my website and download that.

00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:01.639
It's on there's like a free resources section.

00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:02.039
Good.

00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:03.639
Then what's the website?

00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:05.159
Oh, good question.

00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:11.480
It's boost stands for boostlearningdesign.com.

00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:12.519
I love it.

00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:16.679
I love that you're just giving people tools to like, hey, yeah, there's lots of stuff there.

00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:18.199
Like, take it.

00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:25.159
You know, I'm firing it out as fast as we can package it up and make it look cute with a web page attached to it.

00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:25.960
That's a whole thing.

00:48:26.199 --> 00:48:30.119
I know so many skills I've had to learn starting my day business.

00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:37.880
Jeez, which none of my business degree prepared me for any of this running a business thing, especially with the online components.

00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:52.519
The online components is it's it's awesome, it's like a wonderland because I like to learn, but geez, it's a lot, and now AI is just throwing us all for a loop because we're like, oh no, agents and automation and oh yeah.

00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:56.039
Oh, yeah, I'm still holding the line.

00:48:56.119 --> 00:49:06.440
Like I'm playing with AI, I'm enamored with agents, but it right now it's a question of like brain space.

00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:11.559
What I know like well, I'm sitting in a two-hour training this afternoon, so I can learn it.

00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:17.639
Like I'm every week on this stuff because hey, we've all got to stay current and learn.

00:49:17.720 --> 00:49:20.679
None of us can just hang up our hat and go, yep, I know it all.

00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:22.679
It's just not, it's just not gonna happen.

00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:23.960
And no, I don't know.

00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:27.639
I think that's the exciting thing about doing this work and running a business.

00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:29.639
I'm constantly learning.

00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:31.240
Oh, yeah, totally.

00:49:31.720 --> 00:49:49.639
So you mentioned choice, which I'm gonna tie this to feedback, meaning employees have choice, and then if we scope it down to construction, yeah, like craft workers, construction professionals have a massive amount of choice.

00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:54.920
If they just wanted to stay within the industry, yeah.

00:49:55.159 --> 00:50:08.599
And I love the what you said earlier is like employer, you're not the answer, you're not as valuable, essential as you like to believe, or maybe more accurately, as you used to be.

00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:15.079
Yeah, you're all fishing for the same talent, you're all fishing for the best talent from a shrinking pond.

00:50:15.159 --> 00:50:18.119
Yeah, like the stocks getting depleted.

00:50:18.519 --> 00:50:22.840
And and actually, maybe the pond is actually growing, but the stock is depleting.

00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:23.720
That's the problem.

00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:25.960
No, I think you nailed it.

00:50:26.119 --> 00:50:31.720
The pond is it's growing, but the stock is thinning, like it's happening concurrently.

00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:36.840
Yeah, and you gotta put the shiniest freaking bait in there and you gotta satisfy that fish.

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:37.720
Uh I don't know.

00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:41.639
Maybe we're maybe I'm taking the analogy too far, but no, I'm digging it.

00:50:41.720 --> 00:50:43.159
I smell what you're cooking.

00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:54.119
Now, the other thing that that ties into the newer generations is the choice isn't just working for a construction company.

00:50:54.440 --> 00:51:10.599
When I was coming up, the way to get a job was to go to a fast food restaurant or a company, ask for an application, fill out the application, and hope that they called me at my home phone, my landline, because I didn't have a cell phone back then.

00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:14.519
Fast forward to now, and we talked a little bit about AI.

00:51:14.679 --> 00:51:19.639
There's teenagers making million-dollar businesses using AI, right?

00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:20.280
I know.

00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:26.760
We can make money selling pictures of our feet on the internet from the house.

00:51:27.320 --> 00:51:47.639
So I may not make six figures, my feet may not be that attractive, but I'll tell you what,$40,000 a year sitting at home wearing whatever I want beats$60,000 a year working for somebody that isn't gonna give me feedback, isn't gonna help develop me, and is gonna scream and yell at me every chance they get.

00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:50.119
What do you am I too sensitive, Banya?

00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:59.639
No, and I've made a sound like shoot, because I don't know how we compete with the with that 100%.

00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:07.320
I think what we're competing for is just the really solid people who still appreciate a productive day's work.

00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:08.039
Sure.

00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:16.039
But you're right, we have to provide an environment that feels like fun and a team and engaging, and it's not all fun.

00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:19.480
I remember whole summer sweating my ass off in a Tyvek suit.

00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:23.320
Oh god, and just being like, this sucks.

00:52:23.720 --> 00:52:37.159
And then like other years where I would have no fingerprints at all on my hand and I couldn't have cute nails because I just was sanding right bleakly all summer, like the same thing.

00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:44.280
It's not always great, but I didn't stay there forever, and I learned enough to now have written a fucking book about it.

00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:45.079
That's cool.

00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:47.320
But like, how does that happen?

00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:56.440
So I'm hoping we can just create great workplaces where people feel like they're really glad to show up and it feels like a satisfying day's work.

00:52:56.599 --> 00:53:05.800
And to be honest, I think as fake as this world is getting, people are starting to crave more real reality, truthfully.

00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:06.280
Yes.

00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:19.880
I'm shocked that if you provide the opportunities for people, they will choose to go for a hike or a walk or go to the beach or paddleboard, learn how to sew or make something or create an item.

00:53:20.119 --> 00:53:26.760
There's there's a whole culture shifting where people are doing more tactical meditative activity.

00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:34.119
And I think I'm hoping that translates to work as well, because otherwise, we're gonna have to train the robots real fast.

00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:44.039
I'm not opposed to robots because there's a lot of work out there in the trades that damages our bodies severely, and we need to robotize all of that.

00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:49.800
But there's a lot of stuff like wait a minute, they don't need to do everything, let's just minimize the risk to the human being.

00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:51.960
Now, I'm with you.

00:53:52.119 --> 00:54:00.440
Like, I believe rather I credit my career as an installer, as a plumber coming up back in the 90s.

00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:05.559
That's where I built the skill set to build my business.

00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:29.480
Now, I'm not talking about reading PL statements and all of all of that, but what I'm talking about is as I was a first-year apprentice, I got a pile of inform, I got a pile of material, random parts, I had a piece of paper that kind of articulated what it was supposed to look like and how it was supposed to work, and then I had tools.

00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:36.760
And so I just had to figure out how to take the material and the information and assemble them in such a way that it was of utility.

00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:49.240
And those repetitions of just doing that, fake, like you said earlier, tinkering and figuring out how to make the connections and make something durable that was of utility.

00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:52.039
When I started my business, I had no idea what I just knew.

00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:54.119
I was like, I'm just gonna try to figure out how to start a business.

00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:55.800
And oh yeah, what do I need to learn?

00:54:56.039 --> 00:55:06.519
Yeah, it gives you like the kind of planning and repetition, resilience, and like building businesses is hard because you're always feeling like you're out of your element.

00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:10.519
Oh, and so you just have to keep going and figuring it out.

00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:18.440
And that idea of being able to tinker and figure out is just as important in the trades as it is in any business, actually.

00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:19.000
Yes.

00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:21.800
Um, oh man, I find it really hard right now.

00:55:21.960 --> 00:55:25.159
I'm parenting, I've got three kids 13, 11, and six.

00:55:25.720 --> 00:55:29.960
And there's so much where I'm just like, mom, help me.

00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:32.679
And I holler back, figure it out.

00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:35.639
And then they holler back, but I already tried.

00:55:35.720 --> 00:55:37.159
I'm like, not long enough.

00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:38.280
Keep going.

00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:39.079
Yeah.

00:55:39.639 --> 00:55:41.320
And I'm like, and then they're like, why?

00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:47.720
And I said, if I rescue you every two seconds, you're never gonna be able to figure out how to figure shit out.

00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:49.639
So oh my goodness.

00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:50.679
We have to.

00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:59.880
I think a lot of it actually the responsibility when I say the rallying call is for leaders in the trades, I think it's also for parents in general.

00:56:00.039 --> 00:56:01.720
Please, oh amen.

00:56:02.199 --> 00:56:06.840
Give your kids a chance to try and fall and fail.

00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:08.920
This morning I gave my son feedback.

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:10.679
He does this sport called parkour.

00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:11.639
I don't know if you this.

00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:12.199
Oh, yeah.

00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:15.320
Okay, so he does parkour, and I like watching, I think it's fine.

00:56:15.720 --> 00:56:18.039
He's cool for five minutes, and I watch.

00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:30.280
So he's up in the ceiling, like walking along these pipes, and they're playing this game where they have to chuck these squishy blocks at their buddies and hit them, and that's part like some warm-up game.

00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:30.760
Right.

00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:33.559
So I don't mind watching him like walk on this pipe.

00:56:33.639 --> 00:56:37.400
He's basically tightrope walking, holding on to a super skinny amount of pipe.

00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:38.519
It's two inch pipe.

00:56:38.679 --> 00:56:39.240
Oh wow, yeah.

00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:45.320
So he's going hand over hand and running along this pipe, hand over hand, and I'm just thinking, please keep one hand on there.

00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:46.840
There's no tie-offs.

00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:49.240
And he's seven years old, six years old.

00:56:49.720 --> 00:56:51.079
So then I see him circle back.

00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:52.840
He's got a block in his hand.

00:56:53.000 --> 00:57:00.119
So he's hand over handing with his wrist, like holding the block in his hand, so he can go out and then chuck the block at his buddy.

00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:05.800
So I'm watching on the side, going, Oh my goodness, this is not gonna feel good watching him fall.

00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:08.039
I'm gonna yeah, this is bad.

00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:12.119
So this morning I'm like, hey son, I gotta give you some feedback on your parkour.

00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:16.360
Can you just like only do that pipe thing if you've got two hands free?

00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:17.880
Mom, I'm fine.

00:57:18.039 --> 00:57:20.599
I'm like, no, just come on, just listen.

00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:25.559
Anyways, I don't know what the moral of that story was, but I think it's just give them a chance.

00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:33.639
Well, let them take the risks, correct when you need to, but like we gotta give young kids a chance to figure it out.

00:57:33.960 --> 00:57:34.360
100%.

00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:37.240
And I think I'm gonna tie that back.

00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:45.720
The we had this was back in the day, we launched an internship program that introduced high school kids, like we put them to work in the field.

00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:47.800
I had to go, I did all my homework, y'all.

00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:54.519
Don't judge me to make sure that we were in alignment with child labor laws and DOL and OSHA and all the things.

00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:59.320
And so they were under 18, but they were working on the job site with tools and everything.

00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:01.000
Like it's well, I did that too.

00:58:01.159 --> 00:58:07.320
I probably wasn't quite legally allowed, but we, you know, the 90s, things were different.

00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:08.119
It's fine.

00:58:08.440 --> 00:58:08.679
Right.

00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:12.760
The interesting thing was there were two situations.

00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:15.320
One, we had a young lady, she was phenomenal.

00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:16.599
She was 16 years old.

00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:20.119
It was her summer between her junior and senior year.

00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:24.039
And I paired her up with one one foreman, right?

00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:29.240
That we had to have a sponsor, and she was like he that person was responsible for guiding her, and blah, blah, blah.

00:58:29.480 --> 00:58:31.079
He didn't let her do anything.

00:58:31.240 --> 00:58:32.039
And she called me.

00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:35.320
She said, Hey Jesse, told me to call me if you call you if I'm having a problem.

00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:39.159
I'm like, Oh my god, please tell me the guys are not being disrespectful.

00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:45.000
And she says, No, it's fine, like they're fun, but they're not letting me work.

00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:49.240
And I said, What do you mean they're not like they're not letting me do anything?

00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:53.880
They're showing me and talking to me about it, but I want to do it and they don't let me.

00:58:53.960 --> 00:58:55.079
So I called the guys up.

00:58:55.240 --> 00:58:56.440
I said, What's going on, man?

00:58:56.679 --> 00:58:58.360
And it was interesting, it was a blind spot.

00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:05.320
What he says, Jess, I have a 16-year-old daughter, and I am terrified.

00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:08.840
All I could see is my little girl, and I'm worried about her getting hurt.

00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:11.159
And I was like, Ah, okay, we got to switch.

00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:15.079
But to your point, we have to give them the space to learn.

00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:15.320
Yeah.

00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:24.440
The argument I had all the time with some of the when we were thinking, launching the idea was I don't get paid to babysit, I know time to babysit.

00:59:24.519 --> 00:59:25.240
What if they get hurt?

00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:26.599
What if they cut their finger?

00:59:26.679 --> 00:59:32.440
And I'm like, man, we got 45-year-old dummies getting hurt and cutting their fingers like age thing.

00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:34.519
In fact, they're probably going to be more careful.

00:59:34.760 --> 00:59:39.639
And this is the aspect of retaining this young generation that matters.

00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:40.119
Yes.

00:59:40.360 --> 00:59:48.039
Because they don't want, they're not going to be satisfied with pushing a broom for three years or carrying heavy stuff or pushing a wheelbarrow.

00:59:48.360 --> 00:59:54.119
Very used to being holding the controls and doing the thing, and that's what they want.

00:59:54.679 --> 00:59:58.280
Our biggest complaint is that they want to progress in their career too fast.

00:59:58.599 --> 01:00:02.360
Let's make the conditions so that they can progress fast.

01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:09.639
I actually have this method of skill development that I don't want to get into too much tactics, but I'll give you an example.

01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:10.199
Okay.

01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:19.079
It's for a company if they want to build skill in somebody new, apprentice or non, doesn't matter if they're a compulsory or non-compulsory.

01:00:19.159 --> 01:00:22.119
Let's just say we want them to become a framer.

01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:22.519
Yeah.

01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:23.159
All right.

01:00:23.320 --> 01:00:29.559
In the first 50 weeks, so let's say you've got your employee for about 50 weeks, they're off two weeks vacation.

01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:33.880
I help them create a 50-week skill stacking plan.

01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:40.440
And so each week they're working on a base or next level skill.

01:00:40.519 --> 01:00:43.720
And this is not tied to a formal apprenticeship necessarily.

01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:44.199
Right.

01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:53.240
Although you could take a formal apprenticeship with the skill tracking log, and you could break that out into a week by week just so you don't miss anything.

01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:56.119
But it's actually a guide on site.

01:00:56.360 --> 01:01:00.039
So week one could be, let's just say, measuring accurately.

01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:00.519
Right.

01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:08.599
So you're going to give that the there might be three examples of exercises for that new person to just practice measuring.

01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:19.159
And it may sound really dorky, but if you can drill skills in a small time period, you'll actually get them to leap much faster.

01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:19.800
Yes.

01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:23.240
So I take it to music and we can take it to sports.

01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:29.240
If you want a student to be able to play a song, you don't make them play the song a million times.

01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:38.440
Isolate the six skills and you make them do those skills over and over until now all of a sudden the song gets learned in a really short amount of time.

01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:43.079
So it's take soccer, football, whatever you call.

01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:46.519
You're not going to just hope that they nail the corner kick.

01:01:46.599 --> 01:01:50.039
No, you're going to drill the corner kick until they're an awesome corner kicker.

01:01:50.360 --> 01:01:54.360
You're going to isolate the overhead throw and you're going to nail that.

01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:56.519
So it's no different in the trades.

01:01:56.599 --> 01:02:06.760
So I've got this 50-week skill stacking plan that the on-site coordinator, whoever they are, is going to help the newbies execute.

01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:07.960
All right, you got an hour.

01:02:08.039 --> 01:02:08.840
It's the end of the day.

01:02:08.920 --> 01:02:10.440
We're cleaning up or we're planning.

01:02:10.519 --> 01:02:16.599
You're just over there doing your skill development exercises and watch the skills stack.

01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:21.480
And young people freaking love stacking skills, love badges, they love gamification.

01:02:21.800 --> 01:02:24.920
We hit 10 skills and you cash in for a gift card.

01:02:25.240 --> 01:02:26.519
Frick, make it fun, man.

01:02:27.159 --> 01:02:28.280
Totally, totally.

01:02:28.519 --> 01:02:31.079
And so the feedback thing, right?

01:02:31.400 --> 01:02:35.800
And this is for the younglings out there that are maybe interested.

01:02:35.960 --> 01:02:41.400
I tell people when people ask me, like, what should I look for, especially with like educators that I'm connected with?

01:02:41.559 --> 01:02:55.559
I'm like, look, what I've seen work really well is students that are in extracurricular activities, because they got to be at school earlier and later than their friends, and they do it voluntarily.

01:02:55.880 --> 01:02:59.960
Also because they have to work with other people towards a common goal.

01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:00.840
Huge.

01:03:01.079 --> 01:03:10.440
The second thing I want is a student, I don't want the straight A students, because I've run that, it didn't work out, because they need to, they don't want to be wrong.

01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:15.000
So they need to be told precisely what right is, and if they don't, they won't make a decision.

01:03:15.240 --> 01:03:17.480
I need the kids that are a pain in the ass.

01:03:18.440 --> 01:03:25.320
Yeah, that are willing to take some risks and see what happens, and they're not afraid of yes, man, 100%.

01:03:25.639 --> 01:03:25.880
Right.

01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:32.920
And they're not afraid to figure things out and go down a path that that is at least common path.

01:03:33.159 --> 01:03:44.840
I need those kids, and the ones that have so much damn energy in the classroom that they seem like they don't care, but it's not that they don't care, it's just the classroom learning style is not good for them.

01:03:45.320 --> 01:03:45.960
Yeah.

01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:48.119
Now, how do I know that?

01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:50.360
Because I was one of those kids, mania.

01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:57.079
And when I got out on the job site, what kept me engaged was the feedback loop.

01:03:57.240 --> 01:04:01.400
It was instant feedback on whether I was getting better or not.

01:04:01.720 --> 01:04:11.480
I could see, am I performing average or am I doing better than the I could just look at the amount of pipe that I put up at somebody else, and oh, I'm beating them.

01:04:11.720 --> 01:04:12.840
Feedback loop.

01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:18.920
At lunchtime, I could turn around and look at what I installed, like the fruits of my labor.

01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:28.199
And it was that feedback loop and the conditions of being on a job site that absolutely captured my mind and my energy and everything else.

01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:30.760
And so that's I think that's so cool.

01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:35.800
I've never heard it spoken quite like that, but I think that's really you've dialed it in.

01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:36.760
Yeah.

01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:37.400
Yeah.

01:04:37.559 --> 01:04:39.880
It was so let's go another layer, right?

01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:44.920
My problem in school was the pace at which things went.

01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:51.079
I wanted to apply and do, and it was lecture, and then there was fill out the paper and be quiet and stand in line.

01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:53.400
I'm like, okay, I already got it.

01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:55.000
We don't, I'm not gonna do my homework.

01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:57.079
I'm not gonna practice something that I already know how to do.

01:04:57.240 --> 01:04:58.199
This is dumb.

01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:04.840
All of the behaviors that got me in trouble in school were a non-issue on the job site.

01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:05.480
I'm loud.

01:05:06.760 --> 01:05:08.679
Yeah, like it was nobody cared.

01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:11.559
And I actually had a bit of a weird education too.

01:05:11.720 --> 01:05:15.000
Like I remember I mentioned that my sister was sick.

01:05:15.240 --> 01:05:19.079
So because she was sick, she had cancer, she was in the hospital for like almost a year.

01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:22.360
My mom homeschooled a few of the rest of us.

01:05:22.519 --> 01:05:22.760
Uh huh.

01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:27.639
So we started homeschooling back when like only really weirdos and hate was homeschooled.

01:05:27.720 --> 01:05:30.440
Like it was not the trend like it is now.

01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:30.920
Yep.

01:05:31.159 --> 01:05:34.840
So I had this opportunity to homeschool initially and I loved it.

01:05:34.920 --> 01:05:35.079
Yeah.

01:05:35.320 --> 01:05:38.199
When I went to public school, I was like, this is weird and boring.

01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:41.159
And then I homeschooled again, did some private.

01:05:41.240 --> 01:05:41.400
Yep.

01:05:41.639 --> 01:05:42.599
Grades seven and eight.

01:05:42.679 --> 01:05:46.199
So middle school, I homeschooled, and I got to do it at my own pace.

01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:50.039
So I actually helped my dad set up his business on QuickBooks.

01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:50.760
Nice.

01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:52.679
That was one of my big projects.

01:05:53.079 --> 01:05:56.920
Set up a construction company on QuickBooks and I did loads of data entry.

01:05:57.079 --> 01:05:57.400
Wow.

01:05:57.559 --> 01:05:59.639
And I also got my Royal Conservatory.

01:05:59.720 --> 01:06:02.119
That's like the standard for music here in Canada.

01:06:02.280 --> 01:06:03.480
I got my grade eight.

01:06:03.559 --> 01:06:05.559
So that allowed me to teach music.

01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:06.440
Wow.

01:06:06.679 --> 01:06:10.519
So I did that in my middle school.

01:06:11.079 --> 01:06:14.840
And I did some books, like I did curriculum books, but it was all at my own pace.

01:06:14.920 --> 01:06:17.960
So then I went to public high school and I went, what the heck?

01:06:18.039 --> 01:06:18.760
I was so far ahead.

01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:22.119
And I thought, we have to sit here for six hours and do this bullshit.

01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:28.119
So I was the actually like a great, like a super top earning student with marks.

01:06:28.280 --> 01:06:28.599
Yeah.

01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:32.119
But I skipped like all the smokers.

01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:34.039
Like I was the worst.

01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:39.240
I got, you know, how the like vice principal comes to the door and it's all the skippers from the day before.

01:06:39.400 --> 01:06:39.720
Yeah.

01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:43.159
I'd be called with all the pot smokers.

01:06:44.199 --> 01:06:47.159
And everybody looks at me like, you're getting in trouble.

01:06:47.240 --> 01:06:48.119
And I'd walk out.

01:06:48.199 --> 01:06:51.159
And it's funny because I did musical theater with the vice principal.

01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:53.480
So she'd be like, Why were you out?

01:06:53.639 --> 01:06:56.199
And I'm like, student government volunteering.

01:06:56.360 --> 01:06:58.519
She's fine, but please get a note.

01:06:58.840 --> 01:07:00.679
You're embarrassing me.

01:07:01.159 --> 01:07:01.720
But yeah.

01:07:02.039 --> 01:07:07.480
Like I just couldn't handle the fact that I'm sitting there for hours on end doing random stuff.

01:07:07.720 --> 01:07:12.760
Anyways, I wasn't, I was like a top mark student, but I was actually a really shitty student.

01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:18.760
It wasn't until I got out of that and did what I wanted to study in university that I gave a crap.

01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:21.960
But oh man, it was hard doing high school, really hard.

01:07:22.360 --> 01:07:25.079
And I think that is not said enough.

01:07:25.240 --> 01:07:38.360
Maybe I need to do a better job of helping like parents and educators understand if your student, if this classroom's not going fast enough for them, I know traditional thinking is you need to put them in an AP class or interbaccalureate classes.

01:07:38.599 --> 01:07:40.119
No, you're missing the point.

01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:50.199
It's the conditions in which the traditional education, academia, has designed for learning does not suit everybody.

01:07:50.599 --> 01:07:53.079
No, and we could do a whole session on that.

01:07:53.240 --> 01:07:53.559
Yeah.

01:07:53.800 --> 01:07:56.599
Because one of my degrees is actually a high school teacher.

01:07:56.920 --> 01:08:00.360
I have a high school music and accounting degree.

01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:05.159
Never wanted to teach in high school, but I think the old high school model is gonna change.

01:08:05.320 --> 01:08:09.159
Oh, it's I don't think it's gonna be around over the next 10 years, honestly.

01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:15.559
Yes, we can't sustain it, and like they're not keeping up with AI, they're not keeping up with the trades needed.

01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:17.399
It's like, why are they sitting there?

01:08:17.479 --> 01:08:18.599
It's such a waste of time.

01:08:18.760 --> 01:08:23.079
That's a whole other and very opinionated piece.

01:08:23.239 --> 01:08:26.519
So you may not want to highlight that because I can get very well.

01:08:26.599 --> 01:08:27.319
I'm fine with it.

01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:31.000
People have asked me, like, why are you against university and college?

01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:31.800
I'm not.

01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:39.000
What I'm against is forcing kids down a path that does not serve them.

01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:40.760
I'm against mismatch.

01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:43.159
Yes, mismatch, perfectly said.

01:08:43.639 --> 01:08:46.199
My daughter, my middle one, wants to be a veterinarian.

01:08:46.359 --> 01:08:56.599
So I'm like, okay, girl, we're gonna aim you towards get through high school, do your science basic thing that you have to get at a cheap school, get some experience talking with people.

01:08:56.760 --> 01:09:06.359
She already does apprenticeship because my sister's a vet, so she's already out every summer from the age of 11, putting down horses and holding them while they're getting their teeth done.

01:09:06.439 --> 01:09:09.639
Like she's already out there seeing the job and knowing she likes it.

01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:11.000
So I'm not worried about her.

01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:14.840
Actually, she'll do a great job in vet school because she's had so many years of exposure.

01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:15.639
Yep.

01:09:15.880 --> 01:09:20.279
Then my other one, I'm like, yeah, you don't need to do university, it's not the path you want to do.

01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:21.480
So waste your time.

01:09:21.720 --> 01:09:22.039
Yes.

01:09:22.199 --> 01:09:25.560
No, a hundred I applaud you for having that perspective.

01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:33.239
And for the parents and educators out there, if you got a kid, I'll just say this we all learn in different under different conditions.

01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:43.800
The job site for me, the noise, the physicality, the competition, the camaraderie were the conditions that I didn't know that I learned.

01:09:43.880 --> 01:09:45.399
That's where I thrive.

01:09:46.520 --> 01:09:53.399
Sitting down, keeping my hands to myself and staying quiet is the it that is the worst torture you can ever put me in.

01:09:53.560 --> 01:10:00.439
So if you got that kid, construction or the trades is probably a good spot to experiment with.

01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:06.760
I'm not saying they're gonna like it, but they may find out like, whoa, okay, I need more of this.

01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:08.439
And it's I think healthier.

01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:17.560
When we're not trying to, when we're not in the mismatch, like you said, when we're not in the mismatch, I think we're we're set up to become better versions of ourselves, period.

01:10:17.800 --> 01:10:26.199
And so at I'm gonna avoid the risk of going into the other podcast episode about education and the design.

01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:30.439
So I'm gonna are you ready for the final grand slam question, Miss Mania?

01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:31.560
Lay it on me.

01:10:31.640 --> 01:10:32.279
I'm ready.

01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:45.159
I'm excited because about what your answer is going to be, because the breadth of experience you have, it's highly evident that your processing power is super high level.

01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:53.079
Playing violin, teaching violin, and and helping me not sound like a dummy with your very thoughtful and rich responses.

01:10:53.239 --> 01:10:55.000
I'm like, oh man, this is good.

01:10:55.239 --> 01:10:57.720
So I think your question is gonna be pretty deep.

01:10:57.880 --> 01:10:59.399
Your answer is gonna be pretty deep.

01:10:59.560 --> 01:11:05.399
So here's the question What is the promise you are intended to be?

01:11:05.800 --> 01:11:07.239
What is the promise?

01:11:07.480 --> 01:11:07.960
Yes.

01:11:08.359 --> 01:11:10.279
I don't know if I understand your question.

01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:14.039
So Drive in, what is the promise that I'm intended to be?

01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:14.760
I don't know.

01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:15.800
I don't know what you mean.

01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:17.640
Okay, I'll give you some context.

01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:18.520
Okay, please.

01:11:18.840 --> 01:11:30.520
I was in rehab the last time I was in rehab, and one of the counselors there said, Jesse, you don't have a problem admitting that you're an addict or an alcoholic.

01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:33.800
He said, Your problem is you haven't accepted.

01:11:33.960 --> 01:11:37.159
And I said, What are we doing playing freaking word games here?

01:11:37.399 --> 01:11:38.439
And he said, No, no.

01:11:38.680 --> 01:11:49.560
He said, What you haven't accepted is that if you don't, if you continue to live life the way you're living it, you will never become the promise you are intended to be.

01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:50.600
And that's it.

01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:54.359
And in that moment, I knew exactly what he was talking about, right?

01:11:54.520 --> 01:12:11.399
All the potential, the ideas, the aspirations that I had that I suppressed and put away because I wasn't good enough, because I wasn't ready, all the disappointment that I saw in the eyes of the people that I cared about was me missing, like deviating from that promise.

01:12:11.560 --> 01:12:12.760
Does that help?

01:12:13.079 --> 01:12:13.560
It does.

01:12:13.720 --> 01:12:14.439
Thank you for that.

01:12:14.600 --> 01:12:16.199
I love your example.

01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:17.000
Wow.

01:12:17.319 --> 01:12:19.560
I am not sure.

01:12:19.880 --> 01:12:31.079
I know that I'm meant for big things, but I think what I've always hesitated to do is label it because I feel like I would cap my potential.

01:12:32.039 --> 01:12:43.000
So I have been really working hard at, and like this is literally through therapy and things, just think way freaking bigger than I ever thought before.

01:12:43.159 --> 01:12:53.079
And I'm starting to see God respond and open doors that I'm like, I always thought that would be cool, but I never really knew what that would look like.

01:12:53.239 --> 01:12:57.720
And now I'm getting phone calls from people who want to make that thing happen.

01:12:58.039 --> 01:13:00.199
And I'm like, OMG.

01:13:00.279 --> 01:13:07.800
Like I was just explaining to my husband the other day some new thing, and it's a group of partners, and we're going and doing this big project.

01:13:08.279 --> 01:13:10.279
And he's like, What?

01:13:10.520 --> 01:13:14.840
And I'm like, that's always been an idea, a vision, but I didn't know how to make it happen.

01:13:14.920 --> 01:13:16.680
And now this is a God moment.

01:13:17.159 --> 01:13:28.279
So I don't even know exactly how far what my legacy will be, but I certainly know it's going to be in in helping people be the best versions of themselves.

01:13:28.359 --> 01:13:30.359
And I hope that's not corny or cliche.

01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:37.720
I'm always pushing people around me to say, you can do more, you can do bigger, like you're thinking too small.

01:13:37.800 --> 01:13:39.960
And it's because there's other people who've said that to me.

01:13:40.039 --> 01:13:41.560
You're thinking too small.

01:13:41.800 --> 01:13:43.800
And so I'm always appreciative of that.

01:13:43.960 --> 01:13:49.239
But I think a lot of the legacy too, like obviously I've mentioned God, I am a very spiritual person.

01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:51.960
And I think there's it's limitless.

01:13:52.199 --> 01:13:52.439
Yeah.

01:13:52.680 --> 01:13:55.880
So who knows what this planet's gonna look like in 30 years?

01:13:56.039 --> 01:14:01.640
But I know that I'm I just wanna be a guiding light for people if I can.

01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:08.600
And I like to look back behind me in my journey and pull people along and hopefully accelerate them a little faster.

01:14:08.760 --> 01:14:17.560
Goodness gracious, it's a big question, but I just I'm excited because all of a sudden I feel like I've freed my brain up to think bigger.

01:14:17.800 --> 01:14:21.640
And this book is it's intimidating to write a book and put it out there.

01:14:21.720 --> 01:14:22.840
I have to tell you.

01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:32.359
I had to do some deep work to actually feel comfortable with having a book out there because it exposes you to criticism the same people start reading it.

01:14:32.520 --> 01:14:39.000
And man, that can be hard, especially I think as a performing musician and you know, a good A student.

01:14:39.159 --> 01:14:43.239
Like that can be put you in a position where you're not so good with criticism.

01:14:43.399 --> 01:14:43.720
Yes.

01:14:43.960 --> 01:14:52.199
I've had auditions that fell flat and people commenting, and you just think, oh no, that was my best, and it wasn't good enough.

01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:54.600
So you can just feel inadequate a lot.

01:14:54.760 --> 01:14:57.800
So that doesn't go away just because you get older.

01:14:58.199 --> 01:15:03.960
I had to really pull my shit together and go, hey, this is a book that's a voice that's needed.

01:15:04.039 --> 01:15:09.319
It's one opinion in a sea of opinions, and I'm really curious now to hear what people think.

01:15:09.480 --> 01:15:11.640
But be nice when you leave me a review.

01:15:11.880 --> 01:15:13.880
And I want to hear from you.

01:15:13.960 --> 01:15:15.319
So connect on LinkedIn.

01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:17.399
That's where I'm growing my community.

01:15:17.720 --> 01:15:18.199
I don't know.

01:15:18.279 --> 01:15:20.600
I'm not trying to wrap it up, but just yeah, connect.

01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:22.840
I want to hear from your listeners and see what they think.

01:15:23.159 --> 01:15:23.720
Absolutely.

01:15:23.800 --> 01:15:31.560
We'll make sure, we'll make sure your profile is in the show notes and once we get it released, the clips and everything else.

01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:32.840
Amazing.

01:15:33.079 --> 01:15:34.199
Did you have fun?

01:15:34.600 --> 01:15:35.560
I had fun.

01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:42.920
I'm so appreciative that you and I were able to meet through LinkedIn, have a great chat, do this recording.

01:15:43.159 --> 01:15:44.600
This is just the start.

01:15:44.920 --> 01:15:45.880
Agreed.

01:15:47.880 --> 01:15:52.439
Before you go, I want to thank you for spending part of your day with me.

01:15:52.600 --> 01:15:55.560
Your time and attention mean a ton.

01:15:56.039 --> 01:16:00.359
And it's because of listeners like you that this podcast even exists.

01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:11.720
If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the Learnins and Missteps podcast so you never miss an episode and you get extra credit if you share it with your friends.

01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:24.680
Also, if you want even more insights on leadership, personal growth, communication, you know, all those fancy magical things, you can sign up for my newsletter on LinkedIn because I got a newsletter that goes out every single Monday.

01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:34.760
All the resources I share there are designed to help you put yourself first so that you can leave this world better than you found it.

01:16:34.920 --> 01:16:39.560
There's also a digital copy of my book, Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be.

01:16:39.640 --> 01:16:42.279
And it's sitting there waiting for you on my website.

01:16:42.359 --> 01:16:46.039
All you gotta do is do the click and do the download and you get the free PDF.

01:16:46.199 --> 01:16:57.000
And if you want even more bonus points, share that PDF with somebody you know or the family of somebody you know that is currently struggling with self-destructive behavior.

01:16:57.239 --> 01:16:59.640
That would be the ultimate gift for me.

01:16:59.800 --> 01:17:10.119
While you're there, do some exploring of the trainings, workshops, and services that are designed to enhance your performance at home and at work.

01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:12.680
Just click the link in the show notes to check it out.

01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:14.039
Thanks again for listening.

01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:17.480
Take care of yourself, and I'll see you on the next episode.

01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:18.439
Peace.